Yes it is. Chan racks up speed marks, difficult entry marks, etc. for most of his jumps.
Men - Free program
- Thread starter Shaba22
- Start date
Yes it is. Chan racks up speed marks, difficult entry marks, etc. for most of his jumps.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
A dissection of why Chan's TES were too high in the LP:
*+2 across the board from the judges for his Quad, with one judge even giving him a +3. This is ridiculous. He doesn't get enough height in his Quad to justify that kind of mark. This should have been a +1.
*A lot of +2's on his Flying Sit Spin. Undeserved. Look at the lazy bent-leg position he has when trying to do the catch-foot in order to gain a level. Not great.
*A lot of +1's here and there for jumps with small wobbles on the landings. Considering Chan's jumps aren't that big, these are undeserved.
*+3 GOE on his second footwork sequence. +3 GOE means one of the best technical elements you've ever seen. Should be given out rarely. Chan's sequence was not that good. He didn't have some of the most evocative body movement ever a la Yagudin or Lambiel and he didn't have blindingly fast turns or speed across the ice.
*A lot of +2's and even a +3 for his Combination Spin. This is wrong. The transitions between positions in his combination spin are VERY easy. He doesn't do much to gain the Level 4 on the spin and the overall quality of his positions are only average. Speed is good but not amazing. Should have received +1 at the very most.
*+2 across the board from the judges for his Quad, with one judge even giving him a +3. This is ridiculous. He doesn't get enough height in his Quad to justify that kind of mark. This should have been a +1.
*A lot of +2's on his Flying Sit Spin. Undeserved. Look at the lazy bent-leg position he has when trying to do the catch-foot in order to gain a level. Not great.
*A lot of +1's here and there for jumps with small wobbles on the landings. Considering Chan's jumps aren't that big, these are undeserved.
*+3 GOE on his second footwork sequence. +3 GOE means one of the best technical elements you've ever seen. Should be given out rarely. Chan's sequence was not that good. He didn't have some of the most evocative body movement ever a la Yagudin or Lambiel and he didn't have blindingly fast turns or speed across the ice.
*A lot of +2's and even a +3 for his Combination Spin. This is wrong. The transitions between positions in his combination spin are VERY easy. He doesn't do much to gain the Level 4 on the spin and the overall quality of his positions are only average. Speed is good but not amazing. Should have received +1 at the very most.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I have to say i am not outraged at the scoring of the LP like I was for the short. Of the top contenders Patrick showed the most energy and commitment.
I am not sure exactly what was so amazing about Patrick's quad that it needed +2 and +3 GOEs on top of the base value for a properly executed element, but oh well.
Hi!
Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!
Go Sheikh and VanCleave!
I am not sure exactly what was so amazing about Patrick's quad that it needed +2 and +3 GOEs on top of the base value for a properly executed element, but oh well.
burntbread said:
Hi!
Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!
Go Sheikh and VanCleave!
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
with the exception of the Pirate, I agree.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
+3 Goe maybe cause he was talking about it and finally landed it?
did Reynods got Goes for his 4 quads in sp and lp?
Or Arthur for his second 3axel that was perfect?
Javier's quad?
(i m watching ladies, cant watch protocols as well**)
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
ITA! The 1st 3Lutz, the 3flip, and 3loop+3toe all should have received -1 GOE across the board from every judge. 1st 3Axel should have received -3 GOE across the board from every judge. 4toe should have only received +1 GOE across the board from every judge.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
I have to say i am not outraged at the scoring of the LP like I was for the short. Of the top contenders Patrick showed the most energy and commitment.
I am not sure exactly what was so amazing about Patrick's quad that it needed +2 and +3 GOEs on top of the base value for a properly executed element, but oh well.
Hi!
Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!
Go Sheikh and VanCleave!
From my layman's observation, I think Patrick's quad had (1) a good speed into it, (2) with difficult entry (some footwork), (3) holding a steady edge throughout without a tiny wobble, (4) good speed coming out. The height was not huge but decent (not positive nor negative). Does that justify +2 or +3? I don't know.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
For his LP, Reynolds mostly received +1s and a couple of zeros for both his landed quads.
Fernandez received a single +3, but mostly a mixture of +2 and +1s for his 4T for a total of +1.71 GOE.
Gachinsky received straight +1s across the board for his 3A, with a single 0.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
To score +2 for GOE, you need to satisfy four of these bullets
1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure
Did Chan for his quad?
1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure
Did Chan for his quad?
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
I need to re-watch his LP again, but if I recall correctly, I don't think Patrick had footwork leading up to his 4T.
I may be wrong, though.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2010
Hi!
Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!
Go Sheikh and VanCleave!
Hello!
Trevor Young went to my high school
But I'm a senior now, so I never met him- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
He has 1) difficult entry, 6) good flow from entry to exit, 7) effortless throughout, 8) element matched the music. I don't know about 2) steps immediately before jump
This is disgraceful. Given gifts by judges for one of the worst performances from a world medalist in a short program ever. The event should be the worst moment in his life because it may turn out to be one of his worst skates ever. He should just be honest and say he was horrible and was just given a gift because it was skate canada and skate canada is one of the more politically agressive and itimidating to judges in the world.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
What really gets me is if Patrick was any other nationality, the Skate Canada leadership and media would probably be all over the place denouncing the injustice of the situation.
Agreed. It's pretty apparent the men's competition was a foregone conclusion and a complete set-up for Chan to win. The scoring of the SP for that craptacular program was solely to keep him close enough to not only make the podium, but to win it. Combined with the overscoring in the FS. Canada should be ashamed, but then again, from at least the past couple of years of Skate Canada, we've seen it's probably the most unfairly judged of all the GP's. Where's Transparency International when you need them?
Officially now a hater.
Which is crap, IMO. Gachinsky is not my cup of tea, but his 3A was excellent. Really, really good.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Michael Weiss shared this with fans:
"Great Men's long program - Quads all over!!... and the winner had the Component marks to go with it
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
LMAO. There is no such thing as a "speed mark". The amount of speed a skater goes into a jump with only matters in terms of the quality of the jump if they harnass that speed. Patrick's jumps often do not get exceptional height or distance or finish the rotation in the air with room still left before landing.
Transitions before and after a jump should have NO bearing on the GOE of the jump either unless the transition is exceptionally difficult and done directly into or out of the jump. There is already a Program Component for transitions, they shouldn't be effecting the GOE of jumps. The most important thing about a jump is exactly that - JUMPING. Leaping into the air, turning, and landing. The size of the jump should be the most important consideration for +GOE. Big jumps are the most difficult. After that should come the flowout on the landing and after that should be any special air positions or delay in rotation or especially difficult entrances.
Doing small jumps out of transitions is not as impressive as skating down the ice and vaulting yourself into the air with POWER (without too much of a telegraph, of course). It takes more energy to do that and more control to land huge jumps. Brian Joubert's Triple Flip is one of the best Triple Flips ever (or used to be before the wrong-edge paranoia took over) because he gets enormous height + doesn't prerotate at all + completes the rotation in the air before landing (and generally has great outflow on the landing).
You don't "need" to, the bullets are only guidelines, but yes judges tend to take it literally in most cases. For Patrick's Quad he certainly did NOT have #1, he didn't have #2, he didn't have #3, #4 is NO (/questionable) and it's RIDICULOUS that there is only one GOE bullet for both the height and distance of a jump when those are the most important qualities of a jump, #5 is questionanble, #6 is a YES, #7 is a YES, #8 is a NO.
He deserved +1 or maybe +1.5 if the GOE grades were allowed to be input like that (they should be).
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
My bad. Blades is right - it's up to the judges to determine how many bullets to use. That strikes me as silly and to 6.0 like to be fair.
Heh, wrong edge paranoia.
Heh, wrong edge paranoia.
