Men - Short Program

[Poodlepal]

I thought that Jeremy and Patrick and Tomas should be right on top of one another. Tomas and Jeremy skated the same program cleanly, but Jeremy was a little faster and "artsier", so I'd put him ahead of Tomas a little bit--not by a huge margin, but by a point or two. The judges agreed. I thought Patrick should have been about the same as them--figure he made up for his jump by doing the harder combo. However, I see where people would be annoyed.

You've got a system in which falling hardly counts, where you can get more points falling on a jump than if you come up a little bit short but still land it, and you've got a system where judges decide that one person is exponentially better than another because he bends his knees twice and hops 3 times in his footwork and another person only bends his knees once and hops twice, and where a person can make up for a fall by a smiling(Kanako) or slapping himself in the face (Daisuke), and well, with that system, Patrick Chan is unbeatable. Evan played the points too, but Evan at least only won when he skated clean or very close to it (maybe a hand down or something--but he never won when he fell, iirc.)

Pangtong Fan, don't stop watching. I want to read your funny comments when Patrick Chan is handed his gold medal after he falls, slides across the ice and is scooped up by the Zamboni. After all, he has good transitions!

 

[wallylutz]

I don't remember Patrick ever saying he was wrong about anything. When he had good blade-work but no quad, quads were over-rated and guys like Plushenko and Joubert were laughable imposters.

Now that he has a quad, quads are king and everyone who doesn't do one in the SP -- like Takahashi -- is a wimp and a twerp.

Oh well, that's my boy.

I always knew you have a school boy crush on Patrick Chan, Mathman, this just confirms it.

 

[museksk8r]

I think clean-quad-Patrick is harder to beat than clean-quad Jeremy. But good luck to both tomorrow.

I'm at the idea of Patrick skating a clean LP. When did that last happen? 2008 Canadian Nationals LP I believe, and there he only attempted one 3Axel and no quad. Jeremy actually has a better track record than Patrick when it comes to clean performances: 2010 Nationals, 2008 GPF, and 2008 Cup of China, all of which he attempted two 3Axels except at Nationals where he did one 3Axel as well as a quad. I've never seen Patrick skate a clean LP that included two 3Axels, nationally or internationally. That is what's wrong with COP though - this system could care less that you skate clean. :disapp:

 

[CassAgain]

I thought Jeremy's SP looked great this time around, but agree about the ridiculous costume. What the heck is he thinking?

 

[Mathman]

After all, he has good transitions!

The funny thing is, Patrick "Mr. TR" Chan got lower scores in Transitions then in any other component.

(Actually, everyone did. I think Transitions always come out the lowest because this category is the most quantifiable.)

 

[museksk8r]

I don't care for Jeremy's hair or costume; he could do so much better! The only costumes of this mens' SP that I did like was Tomas Verner's and Samuel Contesti's.

I wish Abbott would wear a shirt and pants similar to his Nationals LP costume last season, but instead of royal blue, the shirt could be red with black pants. Or, he could wear the same style as his current SP costume, but have it be solid black without the white. He should wear his hair naturally without the slicked back gel look. JMO.

 

[blue_idealist]

4-3. Knowing that, do you still feel that Abbott and Verner were robbed?

Not so much.. although I think it should have been closer between PC and Jeremy, given PC's fall.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Chan is the fair haired boy this season (remember Nobi with Chaplin last season?). Otherwise I found the competition up to standard, but nothing exciting. Well, maybe the off beat music that Abbott interpreted. I didn't catch the name. Abbott did well. Verner was special and hope he makes the Finals.

I wish Marazov would stop making 'character' programs for his skaters. These are serious competitions, and the character routines should be left to SOI.

BTW. I thought Preaubert was underscored, but nothing I can do about it.

 

[chuckm]

Part of the reason why some people feel such outrage about Chan's inflated marks is that Chan himself has alienated many of former admirers by his remarks in the media. He has dished other skaters (Plushenko, Joubert) and commented negatively about Johnny Weir's wearing a wreath put on his head by a fan in the KnC at the Olympics. He has boasted about his own skating while taking potshots at other skaters.

At Skate Canada, after getting a shockingly high score for a SP with 3 falls, he said the judges wanted to give him the marks because they saw his practices and knew he could do the jumps. He then said that stressed the importance of practices (at a competition)!!!??!.

Jeff Buttle sometimes got overmarked, but just as often he took a hit when he had a string of off-performances. Jeff never had anything to say one way or the other about other skaters or his own performances. Jeff was a gentleman. Chan is a cocky brat.

 

[blue_idealist]

Part of the reason why some people feel such outrage about Chan's inflated marks is that Chan himself has alienated many of former admirers by his remarks in the media. He has dished other skaters (Plushenko, Joubert) and commented negatively about Johnny Weir's wearing a wreath put on his head by a fan in the KnC at the Olympics. He has boasted about his own skating while taking potshots at other skaters.

At Skate Canada, after getting a shockingly high score for a SP with 3 falls, he said the judges wanted to give him the marks because they saw his practices and knew he could do the jumps. He then said that stressed the importance of practices (at a competition)!!!??!.



Jeff Buttle sometimes got overmarked, but just as often he took a hit when he had a string of off-performances. Jeff never had anything to say one way or the other about other skaters or his own performances. Jeff was a gentleman. Chan is a cocky brat.

Sounds like Chan opened his mouth and inserted his foot again! What a surprise!

 

[chuckm]

I don't care for Jeremy's hair or costume; he could do so much better! The only costumes of this mens' SP that I did like was Tomas Verner's and Samuel Contesti's.

I wish Abbott would wear a shirt and pants similar to his Nationals LP costume last season, but instead of royal blue, the shirt could be red with black pants. Or, he could wear the same style as his current SP costume, but have it be solid black without the white. He should wear his hair naturally without the slicked back gel look. JMO.

His hair is that way because his music is a tango. His hair isn't slicked down for the FS.

 

[i love to skate]

What a beauty 4T-3T by Patrick! His jumps looked infinitely better here than they did at Skate Canada and he looked much more settled into the ice. Now if he could only get that axel figured out...:think:

 

[chuckm]

Chan's been trying to 'figure out' the 3A since his first GP season (2006-2007). This is now his 5th GP season and he's seems to be farther away from the solution than ever. So far this season, he's attempted the 3A four times and landed just one.

 

[Kutien]

Judges Scores SD
http://fsnews.ru/forums-m-posts-id-11676.html

Video of press conference
http://fsnews.ru/index-m-single-id-1099.html

 

[hongligl]

I'm wondering why Chan's coach can't fix his 3A like the 4T. 4T-3T and beautifully executed, no kidding. He couldn't do a 4t alone last year.

 

[Mathman]

At Skate Canada, after getting a shockingly high score for a SP with 3 falls, he said the judges wanted to give him the marks because they saw his practices and knew he could do the jumps. He then said that stressed the importance of practices (at a competition)!!!??!.

In that, however, he was only telling the truth. Granted, it is a truth that the ISU does not want to be made public, but the truth none the less.

Practices are very important, as are the meetings between coaches and judges where the judges tell the coaches what they want the skaters to do next time to get higher scores.

"Winning the parctices" has always been a factor. At the 2006 Olympics Shizuka Arakawa creamed Irina Slutskaya and Sasha Cohen in the practices. When it came to the actual competition, it was a cakewalk.

One skater who knew this well was Michelle Kwan. At competitions, every practice was a performance, both for the judges and for whatever audience attended. She understood that she was always on stage and always being judged.

 

[chuckm]

4T is basically 3T with an extra revolution, which requires more spring, but the jump itself isn't that different. The 3A requires a forward takeoff and that seems to be Chan's nemesis.

Of course, he could just as well abandon 3A and do 4T, 4T+3T and two 2As. Lambiel won many a competition with that layout. But then Lambiel's SS were comparable to Chan's and in addition, Lambiel was a much more accomplished musical interpreter and he always established a strong rapport with the audience. Chan is lacking in the latter two areas.

 

[i love to skate]

4T is basically 3T with an extra revolution

 

[pangtongfan]

4T is basically 3T with an extra revolution, which requires more spring, but the jump itself isn't that different. The 3A requires a forward takeoff and that seems to be Chan's nemesis.

Of course, he could just as well abandon 3A and do 4T, 4T+3T and two 2As. Lambiel won many a competition with that layout. But then Lambiel's SS were comparable to Chan's and in addition, Lambiel was a much more accomplished musical interpreter and he always established a strong rapport with the audience. Chan is lacking in the latter two areas.

Lambiel didnt have a strong and heavily politikal federation buying his marks though.

 

[pangtongfan]

Part of the reason why some people feel such outrage about Chan's inflated marks is that Chan himself has alienated many of former admirers by his remarks in the media. He has dished other skaters (Plushenko, Joubert) and commented negatively about Johnny Weir's wearing a wreath put on his head by a fan in the KnC at the Olympics. He has boasted about his own skating while taking potshots at other skaters.

At Skate Canada, after getting a shockingly high score for a SP with 3 falls, he said the judges wanted to give him the marks because they saw his practices and knew he could do the jumps. He then said that stressed the importance of practices (at a competition)!!!??!.

Jeff Buttle sometimes got overmarked, but just as often he took a hit when he had a string of off-performances. Jeff never had anything to say one way or the other about other skaters or his own performances. Jeff was a gentleman. Chan is a cocky brat.

Very well said. I wouldnt be surprised if this fiasco continues if the other mens skaters get together and file a protest about Chan's scores just like they did about Galit Chait's scores in the dance event at the 2002 Worlds.