MEN - Short Program

[jettasian]

I beg to differ. Dai skated everything very well except for his quad and he was dinged by the judges appropriately. I don't think the gap should be wider at all.
I thought the judges were stingy with the PC's for both Patrick and Dai.

Eh, he UR 2 jumps, falls on his butt....and it's only about 5 point difference?

 

[Mrs. P]

Does Miner have a quad? If he doesn't put in a quad or two in his programs quickly, the only place he could hope for domination is just US Nationals.

No, not yet; hence my "slow and steady reference." I think because he's not rushing with the quad people tend to look him over (and rightfully so, for example, Denis Ten's program had nearly 5 more base points because of the quad). That said, Miner has been really clean lately and hitting his element with positive +GOE on his jumps and getting the levels (all level 4s except for step sequence which is level 3). I agree with you Miner needs the quad, but I see him sneaking up there if he does.

Speaking of levels, did anyone notice that Richard, Denis Ten and Adam got all level 4s. Patrick got level 4 steps but a level 3 on his combo steps. So did Daisuke (level 4 steps), but he got a level 2 spin.

 

[questar]

I can see. Taka had small underrotating at 3T. But the underrotating smaller than 1/4 of the turn shouldn`t get minus GOE. Isn`t it?

I see. You love dai so much. It is time to go to bed. I just hope dai and patrick will give a good performance tomorrow. I was disappointed. especially with patrick.

 

[treeloving]

Eh, he UR 2 jumps, falls on his butt....and it's only about 5 point difference?

:sheesh:

Dai already got tech penalties, should his spin score got deduct because he fell on his butt in jumps as well? Can you explain how under rotated jumps should lessen his PCS?

 

[Violet Bliss]

The difference in total scores between Dai and Patrick is about 4 points, which can be accounted for from their quads. They are almost even on the PCS, with 0.27 advantage to Patrick, and the rest of the executed elements sort of even themselves out with small difference of less than a point for each. Both their quads received -3 GOE from all judges but Dai suffered a 3 point BV loss due to the UR, plus 1 point deduction for the fall. There you have the 4 points which showed up in the Total.

It's almost incredible, though I shouldn't be surprised, that the focus of arguments is on Chan's fall, even when there wasn't one while Dai had a a butt on the ice fall. When Chan falls, his PCS should severely reflect poor skating skills and serious interruption of the performance. When Dai falls, accolades pour in declaring the skate the the most exciting and heart appealing performance deserving the highest PCS possible. And he does receive high PCS at all his competitions, regardless of how many times he falls. At GPF, there was an outraged focus on one of the 162 marks given Daisuke deemed unfair and corrupt. Now nobody has noted a very generous judge who also awarded him the out of corridor +3 GOE on his jump combo. Nothing against Dai, but the fans' double standard is too ridiculously blatant and ingrained.

While someone claimed favoritism from the network for Chan and against Rippon, I saw clueless camera work and biased commentator misleading skating fans. Much of Chan's one foot footwork, a highlight and showcase of his skating skills, was not shown, with not a word of mention from the commentator who went on and on about excitement being the determining factor for scoring and winning after both Chan's and Takahashi's performances. There appeared a total lack of understanding of the scoring system currently in place. This is doing the fans and the sport no favor. In contrast, Canadian commentators such as Kurt Browning are often very educational, helping fans understand and enjoy figure skating and competitions.

 

[Lilyvalley]

I saw this photo now
http://sport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20120210/561937997.html
It`s fall because if Patric would took his hands from the ice at this moment he would be on ice as he couldn`t be on his legs. (Tarasova explained ).

 

[seniorita]

By the way Plushenko got more of the components Chan!

Yes I know, thats the most funny part! I think mushrooms travelled to Europe this time, and judges misread pcs to PE=Plushenko Evgeni and Ch=Charisma.

But I wish there is a component that shows that the skater does actually enjoy skating instead of looking like to faint for anxiety (hello Abott). Maybe this is what I liked in Daisuke.

 

[snowflake]

I wish two hands on the ice would always count as a fall. With the current rule it's to hard to decide. Actually I think if a skater slips and put one hand or any body part on the ice it should count as a fall. A fall is so little punished all he same. In this case Chan would have lost just one more point, right?

LOL, yes, rules should have been this and that AFTER Chan made this or that mistake. It'd not be an issue until Chan did it.

Of course my rule should apply only to Chan because he is so outstanding

Seriously, I had an issue with it at Cup of Russia as well and started a thread about it

 

[skatinginbc]

I saw this photo now
http://sport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20120210/561937997.html
It`s fall because if Patric would took his hands from the ice at this moment he would be on ice as he couldn`t be on his legs. (Tarasova explained ).

That's clearly a fall. There is no doubt in my mind that most of his body weight is on his hands. It's funny that Peter Carruthers implied Chan's 4T might not be fully rotated. He said, "spinning out, not even able to complete the first, and no second jump." Too bad, there was no slow motion for his "non-fall" to let the viewers see it clearly. Did Chan's high score surprised Peter? "Yes, it does," he said, "considering it did not have that excitement he usually had. I think it was just judging off the world results of that point. Do you understand what I mean by that?"

 

[Violet Bliss]

Jinlin Guan SP

I really like his skating after watching this. Too bad he only did a 2A but he stayed clean, right? I think his PCS is too low at 30.36 as is J10's similar score.

Mura and Machida both were very impressive but I find their footwork sequences somewhat frantic, and not relating to or interpreting the music much, especially when skating to Aranjuez in contrast with Chan's footwork sequences. It seems the young Japanese are adopting the busy style of Daisuke without his artistry, while the Chinese are focusing more on the flow and more lyrical movements nowadays.

Can't wait to see Mura's LP choreographed by Lambiel, whose every move is articulate and is never frantic.

 

[Mathman]

Yes I know, thats the most funny part! I think mushrooms travelled to Europe this time, and judges misread pcs to PE=Plushenko Evgeni and Ch=Charisma.

SS = Super Star. TR = Triumphant Russian.

 

[Spun Silver]

It's even more obvious when you watch the vid. I don't know how to freeze-frame or I would have linked it.
From the US rulebook -

1400 Falls and Stops – All Disciplines
A fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater with the result that the
majority of his/her own body weight is on the ice being supported by any
other part of the body other than the blades, e.g. hand(s), knee(s), back,
buttock(s) or any part of the arm.

But as they immediately add:

A. A fall in itself is no bar to winning.

 

[questar]

I saw this photo now
http://sport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20120210/561937997.html
It`s fall because if Patric would took his hands from the ice at this moment he would be on ice as he couldn`t be on his legs. (Tarasova explained ).

It wasn't a fall in the traditional sense, it was an error that is supposed to count as a fall but usually doesn't.(From figure skating analysis)


It's a big problem because this case for chan.

And no probelm dai's flutz and UR.

GOOD.

anyway I prefered dai's performance at short.

SO i think dai's pcs should be higher than chan.

but over all, I can understand the result, the gap.

 

[seniorita]

Everyone knows that Seniorita is a nicest person. That doesn't mean that her view points are always correct. I think Wallylutz used a bit strong tones like always, but his arguments were knowledgable and reasonable.

Thanx, you are nice too. I just said I thought Chan fell. I dont claim I m correct but when someone writes something here, he/she writes his/her opinion, certainly not a fact but just what he/she believes. I dont really know how I can really built an argument that I believe he fell on both his hands, other than watch the video. Obviously I m not in the arena to have seen 10 different angles. And I didnt blame Chan for the marks he gets, I know better than that.
And I think Buttercup didnt claim my views are right. Btw she is one of the few posters that I love disagreeing if ever, cause she knows how to supports her opinion while respecting the others. IPogue too.
If I also believe Daisuke was higher on presentation and interpretation on this performance, this is how I feel, I dont impose to anyone else that I think he is God's gift to figure skating, but I can still believe it .
Anyway I m never annoyed here.

SS = Super Star. TR = Triumphant Russian.

IN is what? I Need a haircut?

At least you get my english MM

 

[Bluebonnet]

It's almost incredible, though I shouldn't be surprised, that the focus of arguments is on Chan's fall, even when there wasn't one while Dai had a a butt on the ice fall. When Chan falls, his PCS should severely reflect poor skating skills and serious interruption of the performance. When Dai falls, accolades pour in declaring the skate the the most exciting and heart appealing performance deserving the highest PCS possible. And he does receive high PCS at all his competitions, regardless of how many times he falls. At GPF, there was an outraged focus on one of the 162 marks given Daisuke deemed unfair and corrupt. Now nobody has noted a very generous judge who also awarded him the out of corridor +3 GOE on his jump combo. Nothing against Dai, but the fans' double standard is too ridiculously blatant and ingrained.

Isn't this crystal clear?! Some people chose to avoid the scruntiny on Takahashi and his falls with the connections to PCS whenever Dai fell. But they analyzed and "reasoned" about the "unfairness" of the judges on Chan in split-hair details and lay charges, sometimes unfounded and hateful, no mistakenly every single time when Chan competes.

While someone claimed favoritism from the network for Chan and against Rippon, I saw clueless camera work and biased commentator misleading skating fans. Much of Chan's one foot footwork, a highlight and showcase of his skating skills, was not shown, with not a word of mention from the commentator who went on and on about excitement being the determining factor for scoring and winning after both Chan's and Takahashi's performances. There appeared a total lack of understanding of the scoring system currently in place. This is doing the fans and the sport no favor. In contrast, Canadian commentators such as Kurt Browning are often very educational, helping fans understand and enjoy figure skating and competitions.

The US commentators, so many of them, are doing disservice to the sport and the popularity of it in US.

 

[let`s talk]

I saw this photo now
http://sport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20120210/561937997.html
It`s fall because if Patric would took his hands from the ice at this moment he would be on ice as he couldn`t be on his legs. (Tarasova explained ).

Ten years ago FS lost its credibility as a sport and the situation is getting worse with this chanboni blooming. They even refuse to see the obvious: https://p.twimg.com/AlShg04CMAAah_x.jpg The ridiculous score became a norm. Chan skated like a union office worker who came to do his shift knowing that his salary is granted. Dai keeps going on risk and keeps delivering one of the most amazing SP that we have ever seen on ice. His PCS is as usually underscored when Chan is involved. Seems like judges went into the spiral of overscoring Chan and now they don't know how to get out. They keep doing this madness while the number of empty seats in the audience is getting bigger. Will that old Russian tyrannosaurus, who promised to compete fully next season, break the spell that judges put on themselves? Looking at the generous marks they gave him in Euros, they do hope he will! Jesus, I almost started pitying judges . Cheers to Mura, that Japanese Yag with Dai flavour, for a great SP at his first major senior FS event. Tomorrow is his birthday and I hope he will make himself a nice present- a medal, whichever it'll be.

 

[Violet Bliss]

The US commentators, so many of them, are doing disservice to the sport and the popularity of it in US.

I see them rallying the public to despise and boycott the system and the sport itself and doing a fine job of it, from the look of all those empty $9 seats.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I see them rallying the public to despise and boycott the system and the sport itself and doing a fine job of it, from the look of all those empty $9 seats.

I'm beginning to believe that that might be their intention. What else could make them do so for the last ten years?! I assume they are smart.

 

[RUS84]

Plushenko and Daisuke Chan as more skaters!
Chan is now of course the hero when the male figure skating on the decline ... but wherever he was at the time of Plushenko and Yagudin better?
But now, who hangs the gold Chan in Sochi - run ahead of the train!
Plushenko and Japanese skaters .. especially Daisuke and Kozuka are in Sochi to rely on gold!

 

[Lilyvalley]

I don`t understand ( may be I know English not so good) why somebody talks about Plushenko while we discuss men`s SP at 4CC?