Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

[seniorita]

how does one just "forget" to do something like that???

dear god thank you and mathman, i cracked up first time after the night of Lp!
I havent heard this version, they forgot to edit it?lol

Toni I ll replay later to your message.

 

[Bennett]

I think Evan does as much as most of the guys. He states to rambunctious tunes and he gives a rambunctious performance. Others skate to graceful music and try to be graceful, etc.

What seemed much stranger to me was Plushenko's short program, where the music was a barely audible lullaby and he was doing vigorous footwork twice as fast as the music. (Someone on the board explained this to me, that there was supposed to be a frantic violin playing, but they edited out the violin and forgot to change the choreography.)

I agree that Plushy did not skate to the music in his SP. But I do not see the first three minutes of Sheherazard rambunctious tunes, either. I liked Evan's SP and Plushy's LP better, respectively.

 

[bladerunnerz]

De-lurkiing for a moment to get a few things off my chest:

From my own selfish POV, I'm peeved with Takahashi - it he had not gone for the quad - I might not have to live the rest of my life with the American figure skating media pushing Lysacek in my face as some sort of exemplar.

I liked Lysacek when he first came on the scene - he used to skate like a human being. But he and his handlers opportunistically re-packaged that nice young man into a soulless skating-bot - and I must say I get very little pleasure watching his painfully labored skating (better than Sarah Hughes though).

If Takahashi had not gone for the quad, maybe Pleshenko would have at least been knocked down another spot. As far as I'm concerned, Pleshenko's long program is a travesty - a mockery of the art of figure skating. His footwork was laughably stupid - his spins were slow as molasses and even his usually-beautiful jumps were wonky. He should be sending the judges boxes of candy for giving him a silver instead of whining he didn't win gold.

For so many male skaters who have given me such pleasure over the year, I thought this men's FS was a real let-down. It especially broke my heart that even before his lace broke, Oda came onto the ice looking like he was going to break into tears, which didn't exactly help sell that light-hearted Chaplin routine. (similar problem with Lambiel). Of the skaters I saw only Amodio, Takahashi and (surprisingly) Abbot sold their LPs.

The only really transcendent Olympic figure skating LP for me thus far were Pang and Tong, though Shen and Zhou came close. I'm expecting better from the Ice Dancers & the Ladies.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I think Evan does as much as most of the guys. He states to rambunctious tunes and he gives a rambunctious performance. Others skate to graceful music and try to be graceful, etc.

I'm sure you know there is so much more to artistry than that.

Evan clearly doesn't care about the music. Look at how he ends his Long Program ahead of the music. He isn't listening. He isn't trying to create an emotion or convey an idea.

 

[DesertRoad]

I love Takahashi to bits, but even if his quad was landed and ratified, if the rest of the program remained the way it was, it wouldn't have given him the points to overtake Plushenko. He got a UR call on his 3T in the 3F+3T combo (and the UR is clear). Daisuke's jumps just haven't recovered since his injuries. To me, it's actually quite amazing that he managed to get bronze even though he's skating at maybe 60% of what he could do before his injury. And a large part of that victory is because he laid his heart out, and part of that necessarily included him going for his quad.

I'm pretty sure he started crying when he started his final footwork sequence. This might have boosted his score, and rightfully so. As per the ISU's guidelines for scoring performance/execution: "In all skating disciplines each skater must be physically committed, sincere in emotion, and equal in comprehension of the music and in execution of all movement." The Daisuke who'd have gone that far emotionally is also the Daisuke who must go for the quad. And he's got a bronze to show for it.

 

[ademption]

I love Takahashi to bits, but even if his quad was landed and ratified, if the rest of the program remained the way it was, it wouldn't have given him the points to overtake Plushenko. He got a UR call on his 3T in the 3F+3T combo (and the UR is clear). Daisuke's jumps just haven't recovered since his injuries. To me, it's actually quite amazing that he managed to get bronze even though he's skating at maybe 60% of what he could do before his injury. And a large part of that victory is because he laid his heart out, and part of that necessarily included him going for his quad.

I'm pretty sure he started crying when he started his final footwork sequence. This might have boosted his score, and rightfully so. As per the ISU's guidelines for scoring performance/execution: "In all skating disciplines each skater must be physically committed, sincere in emotion, and equal in comprehension of the music and in execution of all movement." The Daisuke who'd have gone that far emotionally is also the Daisuke who must go for the quad. And he's got a bronze to show for it.

I agree with you that Daisuke lost some points in both the short and the long. Not only for the ur in his 3F+3T combo, but also had flutzes called in the long program. Although I do find it curious that he received a 1.80 GOE for his 3 lutz in the short, but in the long only received -.6 for his triple lutz and triple lutz combo. Could his technique on the triple lutz have changed so drastically from the short to the long? Unfortunately, I haven't found a slow-motion video that shows a closeup of Dai entering the triple lutz so I don't think I can make an informed guess. Just seems odd to me that a different judging panel would see that jump so differently when I would assume that Dai entered the Lutz jump in the same manner in both the short and the long.

I think he also lost a whole bunch of points in both the short and long b/c of his spins. Some were wobbly in the middle. In others, he traveled. Still, others he didn't flow out of some spins naturally. All of his spins looked rough. His GOE scores for his spins ranged from .20 (in the long) to .5 (in the short).

I agree with you that it's truly amazing that he achieved a bronze while only skating at 60% of his strength. That just shows how talented he really is.

 

[Tonichelle]

dear god thank you and mathman, i cracked up first time after the night of Lp!

glad you are getting your humor back. I've been in your shoes before where I've been utterly gutted/devastated. But you, dearheart, have the best attitude about it. Wish I were more like you!

 

[DesertRoad]

It's talent but also heart. He showed the most emotion and soul of all the skaters in men's. And like I said, happily enough, that is actually a part of the criteria for the PCS and it seems he rewarded accordingly with the highest PCS of the night. As for his lutz, however, he's always been a flutzer, if I recall. That his flutz didn't get called more often is luck. But he absolutely flutzed just as bad in the short (where his 3T was also UR). The inconsistency of tech calls despite their huge influence on the score is a festering problem.

 

[Hsuhs]

Although I do find it curious that he received a 1.80 GOE for his 3 lutz in the short, but in the long only received -.6 for his triple lutz and triple lutz combo. Could his technique on the triple lutz have changed so drastically from the short to the long?

That's pure coincidence, of course.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a slow-motion video that shows a closeup of Dai entering the triple lutz

No? Well, wait till the ladies have skated.

 

[Blades of Passion]

It's talent but also heart. He showed the most emotion and soul of all the skaters in men's. And like I said, happily enough, that is actually a part of the criteria for the PCS and it seems he rewarded accordingly with the highest PCS of the night. As for his lutz, however, he's always been a flutzer, if I recall. That his flutz didn't get called more often is luck. But he absolutely flutzed just as bad in the short (where his 3T was also UR). The inconsistency of tech calls despite their huge influence on the score is a festering problem.

Neither of the 3T were underrotated to the point where they should be downgraded. Takahashi's toeloop technique is that he doesn't pre-rotate much, which means the rotation of the jump is starting earlier.

He doesn't flutz either. The edge comes close, and he keeps his leg bent to the inside rather than outside, but the edge doesn't actually switch over.

 

[DesertRoad]

Neither of the 3T were underrotated to the point where they should be downgraded. Takahashi's toeloop technique is that he doesn't pre-rotate much, which means the rotation of the jump is starting earlier.

He doesn't flutz either. The edge comes close, and he keeps his leg bent to the inside rather than outside, but the edge doesn't actually switch over.

Under various ISU memos and how the COP has been enforced, touching down with your toepick in advance of final 90° of rotation is an under-rotation. That's what he did in the SP and LP.

A real triple lutz explodes off an outside edge press. Anything less is a flip with a wonky entrance. And that's exactly what Daisuke has.

Edited to add: An earlier post of mine in this thread said Dai wouldn't have won if he landed a clean quad. Just looked at the final scores, oops, I was wrong. If nothing else changed and he landed a clean quad and gotten a GOE of at least +.64 on it (a likely event with a clean quad), he'd have won. Not that he was landing any quads since his injuries, but splatting on the quad didn't hurt his final placement, and if he had landed it he'd have won.

 

[Kinga]

My general comment on Mens competition - it was a disappointment. After all, there was so much excitement about it, due to numerous medal candidates and interesting programs. But it was a let down at the end. Actually, I enjoyed the most some of the youngsters - future medalists.

 

[Smuusik]

Actually, I enjoyed the most some of the youngsters - future medalists.

Exactly!
:agree:

 

[kiz_4Ever]

My general comment on Mens competition - it was a disappointment. After all, there was so much excitement about it, due to numerous medal candidates and interesting programs. But it was a let down at the end. Actually, I enjoyed the most some of the youngsters - future medalists.

yes, the 3rd flight plus javier fernandez were the most interesting and amazing to watch!

 

[Nadine]

You know I forgot something important to add to my original post on page 100!

I wanted to say that there were actually empty seats in the lower bowl where I was sitting, which was a damn shame because the upper bowl was completely packed, all the way to the ceiling practically. This made me mad because all true figure skating fans should be able to come down from up above & fill in those seats. This is the Olympics after all, what a shame, what a shame...

Oops, one more thing, I forgot to include Dennis Ten in my assessment of all the skaters I recall. He was absolutely FAB! My niece is the one that drew my attention to him, I remember she kept saying "Auntie, Auntie, he's the only one that did a donut spin!" And what a donut spin, reminiscent of Evgeni Plushenko in his younger days, but even better. He's one to watch in the future for sure.:thumbsup:

 

[seniorita]

glad you are getting your humor back. I've been in your shoes before where I've been utterly gutted/devastated. But you, dearheart, have the best attitude about it. Wish I were more like you!

I dunno what attitude i have..there is a possibility I have a certain dt delay on things.. ..I might wake up a year after and be pissed off for the result. For now I want to run away. All the post - hate has ruined my fun for the sport. Plus I read posts that Plushenko should have been 1st after posts that he should have been 6th, and you know..this is confusing....I ll pass.
I m was trying to find reports of ladies between the flood of Plush threads. You should have warned me for this and tell me to come back in the summer. Then aftermath is worse than Lp night feeling

but thanx for good words

 

[jennylovskt]

I dunno what attitude i have..there is a possibility I have a certain dt delay on things.. ..I might wake up a year after and be pissed off for the result. For now I want to run away. All the post - hate has ruined my fun for the sport. Plus I read posts that Plushenko should have been 1st after posts that he should have been 6th, and you know..this is confusing....I ll pass.
I m was trying to find reports of ladies between the flood of Plush threads. You should have warned me for this and tell me to come back in the summer. Then aftermath is worse than Lp night feeling

but thanx for good words

Seniorita, don't cry. I know how you feel even though my reason might not be exactly same as yours.

Right after the men's result came out, my heart seemed dead. All I could think of was "I hate figure skating!" I know that wasn't rational. How could I have ration when the thought of Lysacek being placed on the same level with the greats in the history, like Kulik, Yagudin, and Plushenko, even Boitano in his era, was totally unbearable? I have had tears for Alexei Yagudin and for Johnny Weir long time ago. I have never ever truly cried like this time. I cried my heart out after I watched Lysacek's interview with NBC the next night. I thought of quitting following men's skating. I couldn't bear to read on this board. I had planned to watch CD that night. Instead I went to bed at around 8:30pm.

Woke up in the morning, I still couldn't give up this "sport". I came to the internet and found out not only Plushenko has spoken out, but Stojko has spoken out. Many others in the field have spoken out. I have found hope. The hope for this "sport", and the hope for a reason for me to stay. I feel a lot stronger now. I have to voice my too on the board in the ocean of the voices.

 

[Mathman]

I dunno what attitude i have..there is a possibility I have a certain dt delay on things.. ..I might wake up a year after and be pissed off for the result. For now I want to run away.

I know just how you feel, Seniorita. I have 17000 posts on this board (I know -- get a life, right? ), but in all that time there was only one skater that I ever made an emotional investment in.

When posters said unkind things about Michelle Kwan and gloated that she didn't win the Olympics, it just really hurt me like she was my own daughter. (Fortunately, as a moderator, I could ban their sorry butts, which made me feel a whole lot better. (kidding...sort of .)

Anyway, bottom line, Evgeni today is the same person that he was yesterday and the day before and the day before that. In the grand scheme of things none of this can touch him -- or you.

 

[Daniel5555]

Just to add my opinion about so controversial result of the Men's LP as a Spanish fan who's neutral to the Americans and Russians. Also I'm a new fan of figure skating.

I would like to say that from the moment Plushenko finished his program I was sure that Evan was better and he deserved to win. During almost every jump that Plushenko made, I was afraid that he's gonna fall. Fortunately, that didn't happen, but it was really that he had too many errors, more than he has usually. Also, I think, that I noted an error when he did spins. So while it's unquestionable that Zhenia is one of the best skaters of all time and he's stronger than Evan, I think Evan won really fairly and his win is absolutely deserved.

I actually think that this victory means that COP system really works. We have a lot of different important elements, such as artistry, program difficulty and execution. To balance it all is very hard task, especially in a case like this, when one program is better executed than other, and that other is more difficult, so the question is how we compare them... In the old system judges probably could not compare the programs and had to give the win to Plushenko. However by the rules of COP it was possible to determine who was better, and I think that Evan really was better that night, that event.

Said that I also would like to add, that this doesn't mean something major, like "the quad doesn't matter", or "we killed figure skating". This is not true, and quad still matters as every other element. It's just that now everything matters really and the new system is much more demanding on everyone, including figure skating legends. There is no way to secure the win, you have to try to do everything perfect, and if not everything is perfect, then the winner will be the one who was better by combining artistry, execution and difficulty, and there is no part that outweights other. I think, this is good, not bad.

That's my point of view from a side, so I hope it's a bit objective. I wasn't cheering for anyone on that event, but I felt that Evan really was the best, then Plushenko, and then Daisuke.

So congratulations to Americans for another Olympic gold and, well, I hope to see Plushenko on the Worlds. I don't know if he will participate, but I would like to see him there showing his real level.

And I hope you enjoyed the performance of Javier Fernandez. He was not a top contender at all, but I hope you enjoyed his funny program.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Under various ISU memos and how the COP has been enforced, touching down with your toepick in advance of final 90° of rotation is an under-rotation. That's what he did in the SP and LP.

Again, his toepick pre-rotates less. He leaves the ice earlier than other skaters do and that needs to be considered.

A real triple lutz explodes off an outside edge press. Anything less is a flip with a wonky entrance. And that's exactly what Daisuke has.

A deep outside edge is nice but it's not "required". Daisuke does takes off from an outside edge, it's just a very slight one and he bends his leg to the inside rather than the outside.