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- Sep 30, 2006
When Barkell told him that it was good enough for gold, Jeff said he only half-believed him. I don't think he expected to win.
Men's Long Program
- Thread starter jiggs
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When Barkell told him that it was good enough for gold, Jeff said he only half-believed him. I don't think he expected to win.
That is true, because he did not know about the earlier performances in the last group. One would not have expected, Verner, Takahashi and Lambiel to skate the way they did.
And while speaking of the last group, I have to admit something, LOL. Generally I always mention about Joubert how wooden he seems to me, but now in the freeskate he was really great, in my opinion. Compared to earlier performances in the last group it was really awesome to watch Joubert´s skating... And after him Jeff skated, WOW, the highlight of the evening!!!
I also loved Abbott´s freeskate very much. I hope that next year he fares better in US Nationals.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
Congrats Jeff, you totally deserved it
Artistic wise, the best, i don't understand how Joubert got higher PCS. FInally Jeff lived up to his potential, i loved everything about it
Brian has improved so much i must say, he had the most exciting skate iagree, but overall, it pales to the skating quality of Jeff!
Congrats to Johnny Weir, a medal at last!!!!! One of the finest artiste of this generation, the deserving us champ i must say hehehehe.;
I'm sad for Daisuke, i thought this was going to be his year. Hopefully next. Dismal performances also from Verner
Sergei Voronov is good!
I'm excited on what Adam Rippon can do next year at the Worlds level! hehehehe
Artistic wise, the best, i don't understand how Joubert got higher PCS. FInally Jeff lived up to his potential, i loved everything about it
Brian has improved so much i must say, he had the most exciting skate iagree, but overall, it pales to the skating quality of Jeff!
Congrats to Johnny Weir, a medal at last!!!!! One of the finest artiste of this generation, the deserving us champ i must say hehehehe.;
I'm sad for Daisuke, i thought this was going to be his year. Hopefully next. Dismal performances also from Verner
Sergei Voronov is good!
I'm excited on what Adam Rippon can do next year at the Worlds level! hehehehe
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
The technical scores are not all about the jumps, surely he did a quad, but the other elements of Jeff surely are superior to Brian's
Joubert has been really working on improving his presentation. He said in an interview that he know enjoys choregraphy as much as jumping. I think that if Joubert keeps this up with his consistency, he actually could become unstoppable. He just needs to learn not to underestimate his competition.
Still, I don't think it's fair to say that Joubert is just a jumper any more. However, I do agree with him about the quad being worth more points. The quad is extremely difficult and it takes a lot of energy, and it truly isn't rewarded enough. It is a sport.
I think it's hilarious that Paul and Dick agree with Joubert on this.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
But the Quad would have given Brian the win in the LP even with Brian's lower levels on spins and steps - if Brian hadn't watered down the rest of his jump content. A second Triple Axel in combination with a Double Toe (instead of 2A-1T), 2 Double Toes at the end of his Triple Lutz - et voilà, the same TES as Buttle. There was no need for another Quad.
He should have done this
4T
3S
3A
3F-3T* (better 3L-3T)
3A-2T*
3L-2T-2T*
3R*
3F*
Just one Quad, 8 Triples and maxed out combos. He could have done even better, repeating the Lutz instead of the Flip and doing the combos with the Lutz - he lost points because he risked the deduction for a perfectly executed 3F-3T. If he had repeated the Lutz instead of the Flip - his TES would have been even higher than Buttle's.
The Quad doesn't need more value, it is very valuable, you can do 9 high-scoring jumps instead of 8. And if you do it with an otherwise maxed-out jump content - you can win most competitions - even if you have lower spin-levels!
Joubert's base value of the program was just one point higher than Johnny's - and Johnny's Quad was downgraded and he only did 7 Triples and not enough combos himself! Even Voronov had a higher base value without the Lutz and just one Flip. It was a serious miscalculation by Joubert - that's all it was to me. And I would hate to see the value of the Quad increased - it is a very valuable jump already, if the competition is good it will most certainly decide who wins the competition.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Reading the above posts, I am now asking: Are the judges always correct?:boohoo:
Joe
Joe
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- Mar 12, 2007
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
I believe the value of a should not increase, But the value of quad and 3A comboes should increas because it is so much harder to do those jumps and have enough flow to add a triple or double after it.
Congrats to buttle, brian, and Johnny. Buttle had an amazing skate and deserved every point he earned. Brian artisty has definitely improved.
Congrats to buttle, brian, and Johnny. Buttle had an amazing skate and deserved every point he earned. Brian artisty has definitely improved.
Takahashi Long Program
Since I'm not an expert on the rules of skating, can someone explain to me why Daisuke's final combo (3 lutz/2 toe) received no credit? I understand that he tacked on the 2 toe in an attempt to complete one of the required combos that he missed earlier in his program. But since he didn't do the planned 4 toe/2 toe, shouldn't the 3 lutz/2 toe get credit?
Since I'm not an expert on the rules of skating, can someone explain to me why Daisuke's final combo (3 lutz/2 toe) received no credit? I understand that he tacked on the 2 toe in an attempt to complete one of the required combos that he missed earlier in his program. But since he didn't do the planned 4 toe/2 toe, shouldn't the 3 lutz/2 toe get credit?
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
You are allowed to do three combos/sequences. You are also allowed to repeat two jumps (e.g. twice the Triple Axel and twice the Quad Toe), but only if you do at least one of these jumps in combination.
Since Daisuke fell on the second Quad and already did the first one as a solo jump - the second Quad was considered a sequence/combination, even if he didn't tack on a jump.
Same goes for the Triple Axel, the first one was fine and a solo jump, the second one was a near-fall, he didn't make it a combo jump and that second Triple Axel was also considered a combination/sequence.
Then he did the 3F-3T, which was okay - overall he had 3 combos/sequences then. He wasn't allowed to do another one.
If you do a fourth combo, the entire jumping pass won't be considered - harsh, but that's the rule. His 3L-2T was his fourth combo.
Congrats to Jeff, Brian, and Johnny!arty: I was stunned with the results, but was jumping for joy for Jeff. I wish US TV had shown the medal ceremony.
You can view the medal ceremony on CBC Sports. If that doesn't work, let me know. I've watched it abut 100 times now. I was starting to forget what our national anthem sounded like...
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
You can view the medal ceremony on CBC Sports. If that doesn't work, let me know. I've watched it abut 100 times now. I was starting to forget what our national anthem sounded like...
That was great, thank you.
After Jeff skated, Dick Button said he'd eat his hat if that performance would place above Joubert.
They sort of fell into a trap of their own making. Even though Paul was refering to the protocols during the coverage more than the other ESPN analysts, he missed the fact that Joubert only did one significant combo (3f/3t) and left out the other two quads. That might have worked under the 6.0 system, but its really risky now.
We've all been trained (announcers also) to think that the lights out jumping performance beats the clean elegant performance in the men's event since the mid 80's. On the flip side, Mr. Button forgot his own old school rule about the cleanest program with the fewest mistakes (Jeff) winning.
Say what you will about COP, but it really does give skaters more than one way to win if they understand how the system works. Balance in spins and footwork and overall quality plus maxed out combos and jumping passes that are fully rotated and clean can compete successfully with quads and sloppier programs.
I'm actually a bit surprised Paul did not realize that. He's sort of ESPN's resident COP expert.
Lesson: Don't water down the base technical mark, ever.
Under the 6.0, a skater placed as low as 6th could hardly move up to #1 unless the top 3 really collapse and get placed way down in the standings. WAY down. Am I wrong?
Thank you, Medusa, for your very complete explanation. As you said, "harsh"!
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2006
Jeff only would have needed to place at least 3rd in the long to win.
And for Joubert to win?
Joubert wins the FS and everyone in the top 3 needs to be below 7th or something like that I assume...
