Men's LP

[turtle]

He was hardly boring. His program was the most intricate and he skated with the most speed and flow.

Ryan Bradley had better choreography??? LOL.

ITA. I was so moved by Patrick's program and thought that it was beautifully choreographed Despite the stumble in his footwork I really enjoyed his step sequence; it was fast with big movements and he was so expressive. Both of his programs have great potential and I hope he would skate them both clean next time.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Not necessarily, because it is not so much a question of what you do, but how you do it. Although Bradley jumped better, his skating quality cannot be compared with Chan, Lysacek, etc. and with plenty of other skaters that were not even in this event. Bradley is a good show skater, but to have a meaningful pro career he needs merits from the eligible skating to be invited to shows.

I definitely agree with you, but this is the CoP and Bradley did more clean skating than Chan. I haven't seen the protocols but Bradley should have, imo, done better in the Tech. That being said, Chan is a very special skater so I have no problem with his winning.

 

[turtle]

I definitely agree with you, but this is the CoP and Bradley did more clean skating than Chan. I haven't seen the protocols but Bradley should have, imo, done better in the Tech.

The technical component score for Bradley is 13 points higher than Chan's but Chan's pcs is about 12 points higher than Bradley. Lysacek's pcs is 7 points lower than Chan's and it should have been higher in my opinion.

 

[jyshin]

Shawn Sawyer's Amadeus [LP] program didn't have that effect on me at all because the Mozart clips were all from abstract pieces (at least that's how it strikes me, not knowing Amadeus, just the original pieces), whereas Caroline's cuts correspond to specific moments in one story.

The reason why you find his music 'abstract' is because there is no thematic unity. This is the risk that you take when choosing clips from different works even by the same composer.
Musically, I would put this program somewhere between Buttle's Glenn Gould Tribute and Lambiel's Four Seasons. In the other words, Sawyer's music selection was done in the former fashion and arranged like the latter.

I appreciated this program for several reasons.
Like Lambiel, Sawyer effectively uses cadences as a natural breathing space for transitions. Also, he uses musical articulation to include introductory moves to his jumps, instead of telegraphing across the ice. Finally, timing of the landings tend to feel spot on, because it is either places on the down beat or with a note of musical importance... something that Kulik would in Rhapsody in Blue program.

Anyways, I agree that music is somewhat 'abstract,' but it is so often done this way. The first time I noticed this type of problem was with Grinkiv/Gordeeva 88 Olympics LP. They had clips from Mendelssohn symphony, Chopin etude, two piano concertos, etc. However, they managed to hook me into figure skating with this program

 

[Buttercup]

He was hardly boring. His program was the most intricate and he skated with the most speed and flow.

There's a difference between intricate and interesting; the latter is far more subjective. I've nothing against Patrick Chan, but his LP did not engage my interest. The flawed execution didn't help matters, but it went beyond that. Different strokes for different folks, as always.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Patrick is such a terrific skater that his winning didn't bother me, but he did have several flaws in that LP and neither would it have bothered me if Bradley had won. Two very different skaters, which will always get subjectively scored.

That's the way it is in Iceland​

 

[Bennett]

The reason why you find his music 'abstract' is because there is no thematic unity. This is the risk that you take when choosing clips from different works even by the same composer.
Musically, I would put this program somewhere between Buttle's Glenn Gould Tribute and Lambiel's Four Seasons. In the other words, Sawyer's music selection was done in the former fashion and edited like the latter.

I appreciated this program for several reasons.
Like Lambiel, Sawyer effectively uses cadences as a natural breathing space for transitions. Also, he uses musical articulation to include introductory moves to his jumps, instead of telegraphing across the ice. Finally, timing of the landings tend to feel spot on, because it is either places on the down beat or with a note of musical importance... something that Kulik would in Rhapsody in Blue program.

Anyways, I agree that music is somewhat 'abstract,' but it is so often done this way. The first time I noticed this type of problem was with Grinkiv/Gordeeva 88 Olympics LP. They had clips from Mendelssohn symphony, Chopin etude, two piano concertos, etc. However, they managed to hook me into figure skating with this program

I would have wished if he had picked a bit less pieces or had just focused on the first theme to avoid being busy. Nonetheless, I just loved this program very much. He was so delightful, exquisite, and beautiful that he was perfect for Mozart!

 

[jyshin]

I would have wished if he had picked a bit less pieces or had just focused on the first theme to avoid being busy.

^ This gave me a good laugh... a little schizophrenic, huh?
Perhaps... being artistic involves a bit of craziness...

 

[Bennett]

^ This gave me a good laugh... :

Why???

Perhaps... being artistic involves a bit of craziness...

Certainly!

 

[jyshin]

Why???

A good laugh meant... "Oh~ another all time favorite Mozart...eh". I was agreeing with you, ms.Bennett
At first, Sawyer's LP at SA didn't appeal to me as much as it did in SC, because my ears, naturally, heard the music before relating his skating to the music. At SC, I took a closer look and realized what missed.
Besides, I was too occupied with Takahiko Kozuka at SA...

 

[Nan]

Patrick Chan is absolutely wonderful, but his free skate was a mess. He botched so many jumps...

Hand down on triple axel...
Fall on triple axel (not even close to landing it)...
Totally missed lutz...
Step out on double axel...


I haven't watched everyone yet, but this was hardly a medal winning performance, nevermind a gold medal winning one. Chan is fabulous artistically, but this is still a competition, and he didn't get it done today. Once again, I am disappointed in the judging. As goofy or ridiculous as you might think Ryan Bradley's presentation is, the fact of the matter is that he went out there and nailed everything that he could, including a quad and two triple axels. And that should have been plenty to outscore someone with several major mistakes. Oh well.

This is exactly why skating is losing more fans. After watching it with some people they could not understand why Bradley did not win when Chan messed up so much of his program. Chan is a wonderful skater but this night he should not have been held up over Bradley with all his mistakes. This new system is not helping skating like they said it would because as they said, things as fair judging will never change and they don't think it will get any better, just the same all thing as usual.

 

[Buttercup]

This is exactly why skating is losing more fans. After watching it with some people they could not understand why Bradley did not win when Chan messed up so much of his program. Chan is a wonderful skater but this night he should not have been held up over Bradley with all his mistakes. This new system is not helping skating like they said it would because as they said, things as fair judging will never change and they don't think it will get any better, just the same all thing as usual.

I disagree. There's plenty to fix with CoP, and Chan's peformance was not great. But are you seriously trying to argue that skaters being held up is unique to the new system? We saw it regularly under 6.0, except back then they used the artistic impression mark and now it's done with the PCS.

Skating may be losing fans in the US - but it's doing quite well in several other countries. Personally, I think that if one of the American ladies becomes dominant, many of those fans will come right back. There are fair weather fans in every sport.

ETA: On second reading, I see your argument is more along the lines of skating losing fans because CoP is hard to understand and still unfair. I think it's not that hard to figure out if someone is interested in figure skating, and it doesn't seem to have affected the public interest in exhibitions and specials. I still stand by what I wrote in the second paragraph, about one star being able to effect a change in the popularity of figure skating.

 

[enlight78]

After I watch the progams again i started to listen to what was being said in the kiss and cry. I was quite shocked by some of the comments.

 

[Spun Silver]

Can you be more specific?

 

[persimmon]

After I watch the progams again i started to listen to what was being said in the kiss and cry. I was quite shocked by some of the comments.

What in particular were you shocked by? I enjoyed listening to a lot of the comments, especially Frank Carroll's comments about looking like John McCain. It was also really interesting to see Patrick and Don Laws' reaction to the scores.

 

[nylynnr]

IMO the men's events of the first two Grand Prix show the relative strength of Skate Canada and US Skating in the ISU hierachy. Chan could easily have lost the free skate and gold to Bradley, a relatively unheralded skater, and he did not; a week earlier, Johnny finished a hair behind a lesser-known Japanese when a bit more on the PCS would have easily put him over the top. I think the wrong decision was made both times, but obviously my opinion isn't important -- what's important is one federation certainly has clout and one, well . . .

 

[enlight78]

Can you be more specific?

Bradley was being congradulated by his coaches. then he flexed his muscles, and said something about he's the man. the coach agreed. then he started playing with his hand and said a childish voice "mom I'm not gay" . The coaches were like shhh;what are you talking about. Then Ryan smiled and said his mom would be proud of him. I thought it was a risky joke on television. Considering the hoopla about sexuality in men's figure skating.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

IMO the men's events of the first two Grand Prix show the relative strength of Skate Canada and US Skating in the ISU hierachy. Chan could easily have lost the free skate and gold to Bradley, a relatively unheralded skater, and he did not; a week earlier, Johnny finished a hair behind a lesser-known Japanese when a bit more on the PCS would have easily put him over the top. I think the wrong decision was made both times, but obviously my opinion isn't important -- what's important is one federation certainly has clout and one, well . . .

And we won't see this at CoR or NHK with other skaters?

I do believe the nationalities of judges does affect their scoring of a native son, but there are other judges who couldln't care less.

 

[Spun Silver]

Ryan's "joke" sounds tacky, to say the least.

I haven't seen all the FPs yet, but so far:

- I loooooved Patrick's skate, even with all the mistakes. Seventeen years old - what a huge talent. There is such a purity and musicality about his skating. His footwork is exceptionally legible and beautiful (not just flashy). I liked the FP better than the SP - partly because of the romantic music and the elegant costume. In the SP he looked like a waiter! I hate to say this, but if Johnny doesn't return to his (eccentric, lyrical) roots soon, I may have a new favorite.

- I was actually pleasantly surprised by Evan's FP. I think he performed it better than at SA, or is it just me? Once he loses the costume I think it will be a good program for him. He needs something with loose sleeves to mask his long skinny arms but hopefully he will take his cue from Kozuka and tone it down - drastically.

 

[Mathman]

Chan could easily have lost the free skate and gold to Bradley, a relatively unheralded skater, and he did not;...

Actually, Chan did lose the free skate to Bradley and also to Sawyer, who was first in the free.

Under 6.0 judging (factored ordinals), the final podium would have been Bradley (gold), Chan (silver) and Sawyer (bronze).