Mens' LP

[museksk8r]

2. Hardly their own skaters either. When Evan "Bring It" took the ice the crowd went bananas, but I was very surprised when Jeremy and Brandon skated, I could hardly tell from the noise that it was home sons skating. Sounded more like the when the rest skated (mostly Europeans).

Interesting observation, Eevun. I noticed this too, and thinking about it, Abbott has often said that he feeds off the crowd energy and has mentioned a few times that he loves skating in Korea for this reason. The support is always there for the skaters! I have found it disappointing to watch the lack of positive crowd response for the majority of the skaters too. It's a testament to how interest in the sport has really fallen in the U.S. No wonder considering Worlds is currently the only televised international event here now. It's a shame!

 

[Eevun]

Interesting observation, Eevun. I noticed this too, and thinking about it, Abbott has often said that he feeds off the crowd energy and has mentioned a few times that he loves skating in Korea for this reason. The support is always there for the skaters! I have found it disappointing to watch the lack of positive crowd response for the majority of the skaters too. It's a testament to how interest in the sport has really fallen in the U.S. No wonder considering Worlds is currently the only televised international event here now. It's a shame!

We want Göteborg back! We want Göteborg back! We want Göteborg back! Ahem. No one happens to own a time travelling machine? *whistling*

 

[enlight78]

I agree the crowd here was bleh. I miss korea crowds. I wasn't even there but hearing them made the competition so exciting. They gave Denis Ten a huge Rah!! but he was perfect. If your not perfect this crowds doesn't bother.
Between Evan,Johnny,Brandon,Jeremy,Adam,Stephen I don't know which three we will see at the Olympics next year. The Ice is just to slippery.

 

[Tonichelle]

I totally agree with that. But we have to keep pairs and dance, because their are some fine-looking men among those, too...

Oh, I agree...

 

[Jaana]

Another question: Evan landed about the same at 4CC and lost against a Chan with 7 Triples. Here Chan also had 7 Triples and lost against Evan.

Well, where was that 4CC held, LOL? Anyway, in Worlds there was not even a judge from USA in the men´s event.

 

[viv]

Nobu was so bitterly undermaked for his component scores. Lysaceck scored 9 pts higher than him on PCS. 9!!! The ISU might as well replace these judges with monkeys who probably would have judged the event better.

I totally agree with that - in the SP even more than in the LP. I think he also suffered from the early draw in the SP; would he have had a better draw there he might have been sixth afterwards, and in the last group for the LP. I know he made two :banging: mistakes, but he surely should have placed higher than seventh.

hwell:

 

[enlight78]

I believe Oda PCs shouldn't be any higher in the long. He look like he was focusing on the jumps the whole time.

 

[Mathman]

Patrick Chan's transitions

So what does Patrick Chan need to do to pull his Transition scores up the the level of Lysacek's andf Joubert's (and Verner's).

According to the protocols, Chan was tied in this score with Verner and behind the other two.

Is this something for Patrick to work on for next season?

 

[Tonichelle]

skate out to the audience and not inwardly... that's the only thing that they do differently/better.

 

[Mathman]

skate out to the audience and not inwardly... that's the only thing that they do differently/better.

I gues I am puzzled as to why this has anything to do with "Transitions." (Performance/Execution, yes.)

 

[evangeline]

For Chan to get higher transitions marks, the only thing he can realistically do is to win a few more (preferably major) competitions and more firmly establish himself as a top contender. After all, most of the PCS seem to be connected to a skaters' reputation as opposed to what they actually do on the ice.

If that fails, I suppose Skate Canada can continue doing their major lobbying...

 

[TripletA]

Interesting observation, Eevun. I noticed this too, and thinking about it, Abbott has often said that he feeds off the crowd energy and has mentioned a few times that he loves skating in Korea for this reason. The support is always there for the skaters! I have found it disappointing to watch the lack of positive crowd response for the majority of the skaters too. It's a testament to how interest in the sport has really fallen in the U.S. No wonder considering Worlds is currently the only televised international event here now. It's a shame!

No way does the US get the blame for lack of cheering. I watched the whole event and at least 70% of that crowd was Canadian. They stood up with Canadian flags especially for Chan. If anything that proves how far US skating has fallen. The US fans didn't even bother to show up.

 

[Tonichelle]

sorry, MM... for whatever reason I was thinking PCS in general... *facepalm*

 

[jettasian]

So what does Patrick Chan need to do to pull his Transition scores up the the level of Lysacek's andf Joubert's (and Verner's).

According to the protocols, Chan was tied in this score with Verner and behind the other two.

Is this something for Patrick to work on for next season?

That's why I think Skate Canada should question the marks. Not only to smell out if there's any judging problem, it's a way to find out what Chan needs to do.

To me, his transitions are the best. It's pathetic to see his marks lower than Lysacks and Joubert.

 

[Medusa]

So what does Patrick Chan need to do to pull his Transition scores up the the level of Lysacek's andf Joubert's (and Verner's).

According to the protocols, Chan was tied in this score with Verner and behind the other two.

Is this something for Patrick to work on for next season?

This is a general problem. This is not the ISU and Brian Joubert against Patrick Chan. I for one think that compared to Kozuka, Chan had not as many transitions in his program. Kozuka got half a mark less on transitions.

It's actually good that Chan brought the whole thing up - but perhaps he could do it with some maturity next time and not by yelling "Give Joubert less points, give Joubert less points!" like some brat at school who wants to see his classmate punished.

PCS is a placeholder, that's obvious. It's a mixture of a reputation score and an emotional impact score - it's simply like the second score back in 6.0 days. It has nothing to do with transitions, choreography etc.

My question is - do we really need the PCS as they are today? Is it even possible to score all those points correctly in a matter of a few seconds, max. minutes? How do you score transitions, do you go back to every element and look how it was connected to the next one? Do you count those transitions? Is transitions an objective matter? Because on these boards several people said that Verner's program is void of transitions and there is only stroking - but Chan said, that Verner's program is actually on par with his, concerning choreography and transitions. So is it objective? Why do we have so many different opinions then?

What if the huge amount of transitions result in more mistakes, e.g. Kozuka who does a whole lot of jumps out of some interesting move and who seemed a bit overstrained by it at these Worlds? Do you lower the transitions score as a result?

Because theoretically transitions and choreography are identical throughout the season, if there aren't any changes in the program. But they are never the same. Kozuka's had a transitions score of 6.95 at Worlds, but 7.20 at the GPF. Choreography went down from 7.4 to 7.05. That is actually not possible, because the choreo was exactly the same.

I say: chuck it all and call it "Reputation and Emotional Impact Score". Among the men it can range between 0 and 100.

 

[Hsuhs]

So what does Patrick Chan need to do to pull his Transition scores up

Start doing more twizzles, counters, choctaws, mawhawks, rockers, brackets, spreadeagles, ina bauers etc?

 

[Tonichelle]

... does Joubert do a lot of twizzles? Lysacek certainly does, but I don't recall seeing master Brian do it.

 

[jettasian]

This is a general problem. This is not the ISU and Brian Joubert against Patrick Chan. I for one think that compared to Kozuka, Chan had not as many transitions in his program. Kozuka got half a mark less on transitions.

If you try not to let your bias against Chan clouding over your head, you will see a different Chan programs like a lot of people. Chan's SP/LP are the most difficult as you can get, esp his intrigued transitions.

It's actually good that Chan brought the whole thing up - but perhaps he could do it with some maturity next time and not by yelling "Give Joubert less points, give Joubert less points!" like some brat at school who wants to see his classmate punished.

Again, you are painting him like a brat that he never was. And he was RIGHT that it's ridiculous that his PCS is lower than Jourbert and Lysacek.

PCS is a placeholder, that's obvious. It's a mixture of a reputation score and an emotional impact score - it's simply like the second score back in 6.0 days. It has nothing to do with transitions, choreography etc.

Then why are you keep bitching about Kozuka getting low scores? PCS has EVERYTHING to do with transitions and choreography!

Because theoretically transitions and choreography are identical throughout the season, if there aren't any changes in the program. But they are never the same. Kozuka's had a transitions score of 6.95 at Worlds, but 7.20 at the GPF. Choreography went down from 7.4 to 7.05. That is actually not possible, because the choreo was exactly the same.

You see, that's why Chan was surprised why his short program marks were so low (EIGHT marks differences, that's ALOT), alot of other commentators and viewers wonder the same as well. But then, Chan should have shut up and stop acting like a brat.

 

[Tonichelle]

it's the offseason, let the fan wars really begin...

not everyone is going to like Chan's skating. I personally put him in the same boat as Johnny Weir - I can't deny they can skate and that they're probably better when it comes to edges than Evan or some of hte others, but they skate to into themselves for me and it's hard to get into the program. Top it off with a few things they say in the press and there's really not an incentive for me to like them.

Now a skater like Evan - he skates explosive and loud to the crowd. Subtley is not something he does, and maybe he doesn't even understand it or care, but I can get into it. He invites you in, whereas sometimes I get the feeling from Johnny and Patrick that it's "okay I'm skating, and you can sit and watch if you want to, but this is just really for me". There's nothing wrong with either style. Evan's been mouthy in the past, and I roll my eyes and wish he didn't spout off...

Brian I find very basic, and he is still that carbon copy (a poor one) of Yagudin... and it's just been there done that... and then there's his comments in the media.



that doesn't mean I negate someone else's opinion who says that Evan sucks, or that Brian is the king of all things hot... it's a subjective sport, it's human nature... to each their own. I do get defensive, but I'm here to tell you yelling out that someone else is wrong does not work. especially on a skating board.

 

[jennylovskt]

Maybe that imitation of Yagudin style has already become Joubert's own style. I find his style is much more acceptable, and sometimes very pleasing than "Matrix" and "007" time. Heart broken for Brian to see him after the LP. I declare, if Plushenko doesn't come back next year, I will root for Joubert for the Olympic gold.

I like Chan's smoothness and musicality on ice. Sometimes, I find his skating amazing. Wish him stop his foolish, rude attacks on Joubert. It spoiled his skating.

Evan chose a wrong music. I kept thinking the images of those cartoon characters in Walt Disney's music video "Fantasia 2000". I am too dumb to understand why Lysacek kept swinging his arms in the entire program? He has power and energy when he skates. The rest doesn't move me.