Mens singles, womens singles, and pairs skating cleanly with same "tricks" content.

[temperboy28]

Mens singles, womens singles, and pairs skating cleanly with same "tricks" content.

If the top skaters in the 3 disciplines of pairs, mens, and womens all skated cleanly with the following content:

Ladies singles: triple lutz-triple, triple flip, double axel in the short. Triple lutz-
triple toe, triple flip-triple toe, triple lutz, triple loop-double toe-double loop, triple sal, double axel, double axel in the free.

Mens singles: quadruple toe-triple toe, triple axel, triple lutz in the short. quadruple toe-triple toe, quadruple toe, triple axel-triple toe, triple lutz-double toe-double loop, triple flip, triple loop, triple salchow, double axel, in the free.

Pairs singles: side by side triple toe, throw triple loop, in the short. side by side triple toe-step-triple toe, side by side triple salchow, throw triple loop, throw triple salchow in the free.

What would the final results be in that case? I believe they would be:

Ladies:

1. Kim
2. Asada
3. Kostner
4. Ando
5. Czisny
6. Meissner
7. Hughes
8. Meier
9. Rochette
10. Nakano or Suguri


Men:

1. Plushenko
2. Lambiel
3. Takahashi
4. Oda
5. Buttle
6. Joubert
7. Verner
8. Lysacek
9. Weir
10. someone other then Sandhu-who would still be out of top 10, not sure who


Pairs:

1. Savchenko/Szokoly
2. Pang/Tong
3. Zhang/Zhang
4. Kawaguchi/Smirnov
5. Volosozhar/Morozov
6. Dube/Davison
7. Mukhortova/Trankov
8. Langlois/Hay
9. Castile/Okolski
10. 3rd Canadian pair

I assume that Inoue/Baldwin, Shen/Zhou, and Marcoux/Buntin are all gone.

Remember this is what everyone doing the required full major "trick" content of course, without going overboard. With their current jump content Asada would finish over Kim of course, and Joubert would finish over Buttle, Oda, and maybe Takahashi. Verner and Lysacek might finish over Buttle with current jump content too.

Meissner would finish over Czisny, and probably Kostner, with current jump content. Ando would finish over Kostner with current jump technique.

The Zhangs would finish atleast 2nd, with current side by side jumps content.

 

[iloveaxel]

wow, this poll is even more meaningless than who will win when they skate clean.

Many of the skaters don't or can't do the jumps you just laid out. Mao has no 3Sal and a shaky 3toe. Yu-Na hasn't done any loop for ages. The only pairs who have a side by side 3Sal are zhangs and V/M. They will be the only two left on your roster.

I sensed the off-season is really here.

 

[kittycat26]

Men with jumps, as listed above:

1. Weir
2. Lambiel
3. Plushenko
4. Joubert
5. Lysacek
6. Takahashi
7. Buttle
8. Oda
9. Sandhu
10. Verner


With current jumps, they typically plan:

1. Weir
2. Lambiel
3. Plushenko
4. Joubert
5. Lysacek
6. Takahashi
7. Sandhu
8. Verner
9. Buttle
10. Oda


Women with jumps, as listed above:

1. Kim
2. Asada
3. Meissner
4. Ando
5. Czisny
6. Kostner
7. Meier
8. Rochette
9. Hughes
10. 3rd Japanese(whoever that is)


Womens with current jumps, they typically plan:

1. Asada
2. Meissner
3. Kim
4. Ando
5. Kostner
6. Rochette
7. Czisny
8. Meier
9. 3rd Japanese
10. Hughes


Pairs, not as straightforward, as the various side by side combinations they do are of less secure points values. So I choose not to do a list for the pairs discipline.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

temperboy - That's a thinking man's sports discussion. Bravo for posting this.

I've already make up my mind after Worlds.

Nagasu - Lambiel - S&Z - V&M. Please note: not one American in the group.

Joe

 

[Tinymavy15]

i don't know. I guess yu-na would win in the ladies event.

shen and zhao in the pairs

joubert in the mens. But the winners in the freeskate and SP would be diffrent.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Women:

1. Kim
2. Asada
3. Czisny
4. Kostner
5. Meissner
6. Ando
7. Rochette
8. Hughes
9. Meier
10. Nakano


Men:

1. Plushenko
2. Lambiel
3. Oda
4. Takahashi
5. Joubert
6. Buttle
7. Lysacek
8. Verner
9. Weir
10. Berntsson


Pairs:

1. Pang/Tong
2. Savchenko/Szokoly
3. Zhang/Zhang
4. Volosozhar/Trankov
5. Kawaguchi/Smirnov
6. Dube/Davison
7. Mukhortova/Trankov
8. Langlois/Hay
9. Castile/Okolski
10. new 3rd Chinese pair maybe?

I generally would not choose a clean Oda over a clean Takahashi, in the hypothetical both had 1 quad in the short, 2 in the free, but I suspect that most cases the judges would. Likewise I would not choose a clean Joubert over a clean Buttle, in the hypothetical both had 1 quad in the short, 2 in the free, but I suspect that most times the judges would have it that way.

The women I had a really hard time picking between Meissner, Kostner, or Ando, I think they would be so close in that situation it could go any which way. I do think Czisny would probably beat all 3 of them if she really skated clean with the exact same triple-triples, and nothing downgraded, which is more or less a fantasy in any case.

 

[morninglight]

Czisny

It's interesting to compare these lists with PCSs and GOEs.

I do not know very well about Czisny. But she was rated more than one point lower on skating skills than Yuna, Mao, Miki, and Kimmie at the Worlds. Do you think that her skating skills are actually as good as those top girls, but rated lower because of mistakes in jumps? Will her jumps get high GOEs if they are clean?

 

[slutskayafan21]

Czisny

I do not think her jumps would get as high of GOE if she were clean, but I think she could make up those points on her non-jump elements. I could be wrong on that, I havent really studied her scores that closely. I also believe if she was a stronger jumper her PCS would be increased greatly, and be much more competitive with the current top skaters. Again I dont know if this happens either though.

 

[morninglight]

Cizny

But do you think her skating skills as good as the other top girls? Then she could get fairly well off with those spins, spirals, beautiful line, and presentation skills. Don't know if she could get above the other top girls that you listed below her unless she can get GOEs on jumps as well though.

Opps spelling error in her name. But I cannot correct the title. My apologies.

 

[iloveaxel]

But do you think her skating skills as good as the other top girls? Then she could get fairly well off with those spins, spirals, beautiful line, and presentation skills. Don't know if she could get above the other top girls that you listed below her unless she can get GOEs on jumps as well though.

Opps spelling error in her name. But I cannot correct the title. My apologies.

I think she's slower than Mao, Yu-Na and Miki etc. Of all top ladies, Mao and Kostner have the edge in terms of speed, flow etc. That's why Kostner always get high PCS even she bombs.

 

[Mathman]

Do you think that her skating skills are actually as good as those top girls, but rated lower because of mistakes in jumps? Will her jumps get high GOEs if they are clean?

I do not think her jumps would get as high of GOE if she were clean, but I think she could make up those points on her non-jump elements. I could be wrong on that, I havent really studied her scores that closely. I also believe if she was a stronger jumper her PCS would be increased greatly, and be much more competitive with the current top skaters.

Czisny's jumps are not strong or of good quality even when she lands them. At worlds she fell only once in the LP, but the only jump she got a positive GOE on was her double Axel (+0.23).

In contrast, she got positive GOEs on ALL six of her non-jump elements.

At U.S. Nationals she won the LP (again with only one fall). Her jump GOEs were hit and miss but her non-jump elements gave her a whopping +6.65 total GOEs. Even considering the inflation of scores at national events, this is a huge amount, taking into account factoring for elements of lesser value.

I think that in order to strengthen her jump technique to the point that it will also be reflected in higher PCSs she must do more than just land on her feet. Even when she skates "cleanly" there is still a hold-your-breath feeling every time she launches into the air.

 

[Jaana]

I think that the placing of spins in Czisny´s skating programme needs careful planning because she is not a consistent/strong jumper and spins take a lot of energy.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

A Czisney thread? She has charisma not unlike Nikidinov.

Anytime you want someone to skate well, it's because the skater has charisma.

Joe

 

[gkelly]

I've already make up my mind after Worlds.

Nagasu - Lambiel - S&Z - V&M. Please note: not one American in the group.

Huh? Nagasu is American. Were you thinking of someone else?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Huh? Nagasu is American. Were you thinking of someone else?

Thanks gkelly, for catching my goof. I meant Yu Na.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I think that the placing of spins in Czisny´s skating programme needs careful planning because she is not a consistent/strong jumper and spins take a lot of energy.

This past season she opened with a spin instead of a jump. I think the reason for this was to settle her nerves by starting off with an element that she felt confident about.

For the 2007-2008 season, I read that her choreographer is planning to change the order and open with a jump. I think this, too, is for psychological reasons -- to prove to herself that she is not afraid of it.

 

[Mathman]

A Czisney thread? She has charisma not unlike Nikidinov.

Anytime you want someone to skate well, it's because the skater has charisma.

And in Alissa's case there is also the feeling that you want to champion her cause and protect her from all the bad things that can happen in the world!

 

[morninglight]

And in Alissa's case there is also the feeling that you want to champion her cause and protect her from all the bad things that can happen in the world!

Wow sounds like a father protecting a little girl If she has that charm, I should start watching her performances to find out if she can spell on me, too.

 

[Mathman]

It's that brave smile that she shows to the world, even when you know she's hurting inside.

 

[morninglight]

It's that brave smile that she shows to the world, even when you know she's hurting inside.

then you may be charmed by miki, too.