I have long felt that Michelle, as a teenager, was never able fully to understand and appreciate what Lori was trying to do for her. With difficult and unusual musical selections such as Lyra Angelica, the Red Violin and the Song of the Black Swan, Michelle did not instantly like the music or embrace Lori's artistic vision. Indeed, Michelle had to be kind of coaxed into it, according to reports at the time.Rgirl said:ITA [with Ritymeez]. Pre the split from Lori Nichol, Lori's choices of music, in general, I felt both pushed Michelle to work beyond her natural comfort zone and also skate some truly remarkable choreography to some truly amazing music. Even though I didn't feel Michelle's artistry and technique, aside from great jump consistency, was up to most of Lori's programs -- I loved Michelle's skating in "Rush," but that was done by Chris Dean -- I felt Michelle's artistry and technique would [eventually rise to ] the level Lori had set for her.
Joesitz said:Does Michelle or any skater, for that matter, actually do the choreography. I know they contribute to it but I think in the last analysis, it is the choreographer who lays out the program, takes the skater's input and then the choreographer will complete the routine. That sounds like I am making easy of this but it does take a lot of work. My point on the choreography is the choreographer and not the skater. George Ballanchine often said that the dancers give me the way to the ballet. Morozov did MK's DC Worlds win. Should we not give him credit?
After 6 Worlds win what should the improvement have been? How has any skater improved in presentation except for Ando and Goebel? I contend that skaters have not improved in presentation since they made themselve known. Their style has been set in stone. Like it or not.
I know in the CoP, choreography is part of the PCS. I don't really agree with this because skaters without the means to hire top choreographers are at a disadvantage.
Bruin - Yeah, there are four and one will go medaless, and then there is Joannie Rochette.
Joe
I disagree. Sometimes it's one thing -- look at Yagudin with Mishin vs. Yagudin with Tarasova. For that matter, I think Tarasova was able to bring out an Arakawa that others have not (Tarasova did not create a new Shizuka, just brought it out).Joesitz said:How has any skater improved in presentation except for Ando and Goebel? I contend that skaters have not improved in presentation since they made themselve known. Their style has been set in stone. Like it or not.
You can take this further - skaters who cannot hire a jumping specialist, for instance, are also at a disadvantage. I feel that Jane Bugaeva trailing behind Kimmie and Katy is largely due to her poor training conditions. So a certain amount of unfairness is built into any figure skating system.I don't really agree with this because skaters without the means to hire top choreographers are at a disadvantage.
SkateFan4Life said:Never rule out Michelle Kwan. This is a lady who rises to the occasion, and I believe she will be right in there through the 2006 Olympics.
Mathman said:I have long felt that Michelle, as a teenager, was never able fully to understand and appreciate what Lori was trying to do for her. With difficult and unusual musical selections such as Lyra Angelica, the Red Violin and the Song of the Black Swan, Michelle did not instantly like the music or embrace Lori's artistic vision. Indeed, Michelle had to be kind of coaxed into it, according to reports at the time.
"[Michelle] likes what she's doing, and doesn't want to do the professional stuff. She doesn't have visions of creating things. She likes doing her competitions, working on her programs, and that's great, that's good for her. She's not like I was -- I always wanted to do all the things that were restricted for me. That's why I decided to leave. But Shelly, she likes what she's doing, and as long as she does, she should keep doing it."
StillBlueLake said:I completely agree. I remember seeing this at the time: Michelle talking about "Salome" and saying "it's the music I've always been waiting for". This marked her emergence as a true artist blah blah blah.
Well IMO, that line was the fakest thing that I have ever heard Michelle say. She didn't particularly care about "Salome", she wanted to do what it took to win and she did.
This doesn't mean she's not an artist, but she was doing what she thought it took to win. Eventually she got sick of it and decided to leave.
Ptichka said:I
Even with the same coach, I feel that Totmianina and Marinin made a huge breakthrough with with Cotton Club program, and have been improving since. On the subject of pairs, what about Shen & Zhao?! Over the last 5 or so years they've really learned to connect with Western viewers.
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ITA. Her technical improvement has shot up incredibly well with Scott and Arutunian, and I am just not in the quad mindset that so many fans are. She has all those triples and they are all solid . This in itself makes for the best performance on ice.MidnightNess said:I can agree with most that I think Kwan has improved leaps and bounds when it comes to basic skills,jump height,flow, and spin speed. I also think she has reached an emotional level that once she gets 'there', she simply can't be touched. It seems very few things unnerve her these days, other than boots ,and we saw it in Dortmund. Choreography wise, she needs help but it seems that she is improving this year and that's always good. The reports at Marshalls,at least the ones I've read are encouraging so who knows what she'll show us at Moscow.
A great example of what you are describing as the seamless blending of elements can be seen in the 1988 Olympic Short Program of Caryn Kadavy. The program was choreographed by Toller Cranston. There were 7 elements to do then in 2:15 seconds, and in the program after building speed and doing her combination, Caryn only does a handfull of crossovers. All the moves are connected by footwork. Michelle also had a program which blended both to "Dante's Prayer".Joesitz said:I do believe whatever the choreography, the skater should show some interpretation from it with a connectiion to the chosen music. She could get Dean to push for more three turns, brackets, counters and rockers within the skate. And HELLO so should most skaters who are more intent in packing their programs with trick after trick and then suddenly look up at the audience and say 'now, watch my footwork'. hmmm.
Joe