Mikhail Kolyada | Page 48 | Golden Skate

Mikhail Kolyada

cathlen said:
The height of this jump :eek: Mesmerizing! :love: This Lutz can rival Boyang's one and that is REALLY something.

Was Misha saying anything interesting?
Click to expand...
He talked about how his mother had picked him up from the kindergarten and first brought him to a figure skating rink where he saw kids skating, that he is like a third son to Valentina, that he doesn't think about places at competitions but only about skating well. Valentina said that Misha had impressed her with his skating ability, jump talent and charisma from the very beginning. Then she said that it had felt like a miracle when he was fourth at Worlds, because there had been sronger skaters there who faltered while Misha hadn't and skated two good programs. At the end she said that Misha'd had a number of successful but imperfect quad lutz attempts but today was the first time it was flawless.
 
vorravorra said:
Misha has a higher SB than Kovtun and Petrov and even Voronov, the former two also got worse GP placements than him. So how could he have dropped behind all of them based on this season's results? And if last season is any indication we have to wait till much later in the season for him reaching or surpassing his PB.
Click to expand...

Season 2016-2017 standings:
http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2016-17/wrmen.htm

It does depend a lot on in how many competitions a skater competed though

vorravorra said:
The 4Lz gif:

http://i042.radikal.ru/1612/e9/3d62a3faaddd.gif
Click to expand...

Wow!!!!!! :hap85:
And that happy face and victorious hand gesture! All he needs is time to stabilize it but this one was just perfection - give me a judge who would give less than +3 GOE on this -:dev2:
 
vorravorra said:
I think the idea of "let's go for an easier layout so that he skates clean consistently" doesn't take into account that he has never skated clean consistently in his career with any layout and it's unlikely that he would start now however much we might want it. So any plan that relies on that probably won't work.
Click to expand...

I advocate the layout a skater can reasonably be expected to skate clean with some minor mistakes (ice is slippery after all) on the basis of consistent clean run-throughs in practice. And I think that up to now this was Chebotareva's approach too. This season is more like - well let's see if this will work by chance... he is not really ready but we need that second quad so badly that we've got to try something... It is a high risk strategy. But naturally they know best what to do. I don't think any of Mika's team read our ramblings here apart maybe from knowing that Mika's fan fest is going strong on golden :).

About Mika never being consistent I don't know - who is consistent? To me he was consistent last season because despite some mistakes he was able to stay on certain level throughout the season - if he had a poor SP then he would come back fighting in a LP. This season his mistakes are so costly that they really affect his overall scores and placings despite many elements executed really well. It's kinda baffling in a way.
I also think that Mika as a creative artistic type is prone to nerves more than some 'technical' skaters - if I could put it like this, sorry, I express myself badly.
About his stamina it occurred to me that the very height of his jumps may well be a reason he is exhausted by the end of LP - it must take considerably more energy to catapult to that kind of height (looking at this lutz again - he easily can be over the barrier!). And I think he might have lost some weight - I was re-watching some of last season and he seemed to look stronger kindat bigger around the shoulders - what do you think? I know many skaters lose weight on purpose to help them with jumps but the downside is they lose some strength & stamina too so one really needs to balance it very carefully.
 
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Tutto said:
Season 2016-2017 standings:
http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2016-17/wrmen.htm

It does depend a lot on in how many competitions a skater competed though
Click to expand...
Yes, Petrov has participated in the most competitions, which is why he is positioned higher than all other Russian skaters. Kovtun has taken part in the same number of competitions as Misha, and he is below Misha. Voronov is the only one who is ranked higher than Misha due to actually having done better.

Tutto said:
Wow!!!!!! :hap85:
And that happy face and victorious hand gesture! All he needs is time to stabilize it but this one was just perfection - give me a judge who would give less than +3 GOE on this -:dev2:
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a definite advantage - his 4T is just a 4T, although a nice one, his 4S is just a 4S, while his 4Lz has that wow factor.
 
Tutto said:
I advocate the layout a skater can reasonably be expected to skate clean with some minor mistakes (ice is slippery after all) on the basis of consistent clean run-throughs in practice. And I think that up to now this was Chebotareva's approach too. This season is more like - well let's see if this will work by chance... he is not really ready but we need that second quad so badly that we've got to try something... It is a high risk strategy. But naturally they know best what to do. I don't think any of Mika's team read our ramblings here apart maybe from knowing that Mika's fan fest is going strong on golden :).
Click to expand...
I am not sure that at least before the introduction of the 4Lz he had been particularly inconsistent in practices, any more so than at this time last season, anyway (when he was having trouble with 4T). There didn't seem to be anything wrong with his 4S, which is what made it so frustrating. And of course Misha's team is unlikely to read this forum due to it being in English, but at least people connected with them do appear on FSO, so I am hoping some useful bits get passed on.

Tutto said:
About Mika never being consistent I don't know - who is consistent? To me he was consistent last season because despite some mistakes he was able to stay on certain level throughout the season - if he had a poor SP then he would come back fighting in a LP. This season his mistakes are so costly that they really affect his overall scores and placings despite many elements executed really well. It's kinda baffling in a way.
Click to expand...
Last season was the best in his career in terms of consistency and even then his scores fluctuated quite a bit and the number of clean skates was low. And a low BV can only work as a longer-term strategy when it is consistently at a high quality, which is what the proponents of this approach generally seem to aim for. Some people can produce that, I simply doubt that Misha is one of them as skating clean was unfortunatly never his strong suit. A lot of things seem to need to fall into place for him to produce two clean programs. As for the costly mistakes this season - I suppose it's unavoidable with taking more risks. I am just hoping they have figured out what the appropriate level of risk is.

Tutto said:
I also think that Mika as a creative artistic type is prone to nerves more than some 'technical' skaters - if I could put it like this, sorry, I express myself badly.
Click to expand...
He seems to be reasonably mentally stable from all the descriptions I've heard to him - for instance, remember Stasya's comment about a cool head and a positive attitude at every practice (this doesn't completely exclude nerves of course)? He doesn't lose mental control during competitive skates, doesn't panic and give up after mistakes, can fight for every element. As he described in the interview, he had zayaked once with two 3Ts in the SP two years ago and that was enough to never make the same mistake again. I would say that puts him in a completely different category from someone like Kovtun (who is hardly creative or artistic by the way, just high-strung), and makes me more hopeful for him. I think the main source of nerves in his case is a lack of certainty in his ability to produce something, and that seems to be borne out by his own words. If he feels he is as ready as he was before Worlds, I am not sure nerves would do too much damage.

Tutto said:
About his stamina it occurred to me that the very height of his jumps may well be a reason he is exhausted by the end of LP - it must take considerably more energy to catapult to that kind of height (looking at this lutz again - he easily can be over the barrier!). And I think he might have lost some weight - I was re-watching some of last season and he seemed to look stronger kindat bigger around the shoulders - what do you think? I know many skaters lose weight on purpose to help them with jumps but the downside is they lose some strength & stamina too so one really needs to balance it very carefully.
Click to expand...
Yes, I thought exactly the same thing - flying off into the air like that has got to be physically demanding (and require strong legs). And as far is Misha's weight is concerned, he is definitely slender, but the problem is that the green shirt from last season made him look bigger than he was while the SP costume this season seems to slim him down. As for losing weight on purpose - Misha is obviously thinner that what would be natural given his constitution, but I don't think that's anything new. He likely always has to watch his weight (and when he takes it easy he gets visibly rounder). He had barely any body fat last season, even TAT with her characteristic obsession with skaters' weight commented on it at the Rostelecom Cup. She tends to think everyone needs to lose weight, but in Misha's case she complimented him which says something. This probably means that slimming down further would have required losing muscle, which might have weakened him if it had happened - of course it is not certain that it actually did.
 
vorravorra;1575841]I am not sure that at least before the introduction of the 4Lz he had been particularly inconsistent in practices, any more so than at this time last season, anyway (when he was having trouble with 4T). There didn't seem to be anything wrong with his 4S, which is what made it so frustrating. And of course Misha's team is unlikely to read this forum due to it being in English, but at least people connected with them do appear on FSO, so I am hoping some useful bits get passed on.
Click to expand...

My understanding was that 4S was fine on its own but not in full run-throughs with music, so we could say that 4S made his practices inconsistent.

Last season was the best in his career in terms of consistency and even then his scores fluctuated quite a bit and the number of clean skates was low. And a low BV can only work as a longer-term strategy when it is consistently at a high quality, which is what the proponents of this approach generally seem to aim for. Some people can produce that, I simply doubt that Misha is one of them as skating clean was unfortunatly never his strong suit. A lot of things seem to need to fall into place for him to produce two clean programs. As for the costly mistakes this season - I suppose it's unavoidable with taking more risks. I am just hoping they have figured out what the appropriate level of risk is.
Click to expand...

Well it looks like the trend to have a program you hope to skate clean maybe only once in a whole season (if at all) is going to stay, the new system rewards it, in old 6.0 era it would be self-destructive of course, nowadays it is called 'pushing the boundaries'
The GPF was a sad event in a way as it is clear that even 2 types of quads will not be anywhere near enough for a podium. I feel sorry for all the men, of course it is a sport and injuries are expected but this level of difficulty the men discipline is pushed to now will 'break' most of them I think. I can't say I enjoy watching programs with 4 quads, I mean there are 4 quads but sadly no program at all, even Hanyu's LP turned into some jump - preparation- jump sequence...


He seems to be reasonably mentally stable from all the descriptions I've heard to him - for instance, remember Stasya's comment about a cool head and a positive attitude at every practice (this doesn't completely exclude nerves of course)? He doesn't lose mental control during competitive skates, doesn't panic and give up after mistakes, can fight for every element. As he described in the interview, he had zayaked once with two 3Ts in the SP two years ago and that was enough to never make the same mistake again. I would say that puts him in a completely different category from someone like Kovtun (who is hardly creative or artistic by the way, just high-strung), and makes me more hopeful for him. I think the main source of nerves in his case is a lack of certainty in his ability to produce something, and that seems to be borne out by his own words. If he feels he is as ready as he was before Worlds, I am not sure nerves would do too much damage.
Click to expand...
That's the thing. He can be consistent if he is confident he is capable of what is asked of him. But I do understand that to improve one needs to take risks. I feel though it would not be a bad idea to start the season with an easier content and to up it as the season progresses. Mishin I think did it with Liza in her triumphal season - she didn't even had a 3-3 to start with and finished with 3A and a 4 triples short at Worlds.
 
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Meanwhile, the Russian Nats approaching fast, hard to believe but tomorrow week the skaters will be checking in! Here the organisers say that the arena is being prepared and the ice is ready already:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN6q_dzDwbQ/

The schedule:

20 Dec: Arrival of athletes
21 Dec: 12pm-2pm Mens practice , 8pm Official draw
22 Dec: 8am-10am Mens practice, 2pm Mens SP
23 Dec: 10am-12.15pm Mens practice , 4.45pm Mens FS
25 Dec: 1pm Prize Ceremony, 2pm Gala

Oh I don't like it when there is no day between SP & LP ;) I think it is so difficult for skaters...



Edit: the timetable kindly translated by Adelia in Alexander Petrov's fan thread.
Links to the originals:
http://www.fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competitons/1617/rusnat1617_competition_shedule.pdf
http://www.fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competitons/1617/rusnat1617_training_shedule.pdf
 
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Tutto said:
Meanwhile, the Russian Nats approaching fast, hard to believe but tomorrow week the skaters will be checking in! Here the organisers say that the arena is being prepared and the ice is ready already:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN6q_dzDwbQ/

The schedule:

20 Dec: Arrival of athletes
21 Dec: 12pm-2pm Mens practice , 8pm Official draw
22 Dec: 8am-10am Mens practice, 2pm Mens SP
23 Dec: 10am-12.15pm Mens practice , 4.45pm Mens FS
25 Dec: 1pm Prize Ceremony, 2pm Gala

Oh I don't like it when there is no day between SP & LP ;) I think it is so difficult for skaters...
Click to expand...
It would be nice to give a little bit of credit to the person who bothered to type out the schedule, since you copy-pasted most of it from the Petrov Fanfest. You could have just quoted me and it would be fine. Or, head over to the fsrussia website yourself, since you read Russian and type out the schedule yourself.
 
Tutto said:
My understanding was that 4S was fine on its own but not in full run-throughs with music, so we could say that 4S made his practices inconsistent.
Click to expand...
I took it to mean that the problem is in competitions, not in run-throughs, because otherwise saying "4S is as good as 4T in practices" makes zero sense. An element is not fine in practices if you can't skate it as part of a program. Of course we only heard that sentence second-hand and don't know either the context or whether it's an exact quote, so it's all guesswork.

Tutto said:
Well it looks like the trend to have a program you hope to skate clean maybe only once in a whole season (if at all) is going to stay, the new system rewards it, in old 6.0 era it would be self-destructive of course, nowadays it is called 'pushing the boundaries'
The GPF was a sad event in a way as it is clear that even 2 types of quads will not be anywhere near enough for a podium. I feel sorry for all the men, of course it is a sport and injuries are expected but this level of difficulty the men discipline is pushed to now will 'break' most of them I think. I can't say I enjoy watching programs with 4 quads, I mean there are 4 quads but sadly no program at all, even Hanyu's LP turned into some jump - preparation- jump sequence...
Click to expand...
Shoma did fine with just two types of quads though, it's just that one of them was a flip. I agree that four currently seems at least one too many even for those few who can physically produce them, and it's unlikely that a substantial number of skaters will be able to do that any time soon. And yes, virtually everyone in the men's field is currently adding (more) quads regardless of how much chance they have of successfully rotating/landing them. You have to show that you are at least trying, otherwise it is treated as a character failing (poor Petrov).

Tutto said:
That's the thing. He can be consistent if he is confident he is capable of what is asked of him. But I do understand that to improve one needs to take risks. I feel though it would not be a bad idea to start the season with an easier content and to up it as the season progresses. Mishin I think did it with Liza in her triumphal season - she didn't even had a 3-3 to start with and finished with 3A and a 4 triples short at Worlds.
Click to expand...
I got the impression that the only time he felt that level of readiness last season was at Worlds. Before that his quad was too unstable to rely on (he gave a figure of 60% mid-season iirc) in addition to various other sundry problems that kept cropping up. His FS at Nationals was pretty shaky but fortunately it turned out to be enough.

They didn't really start last season with easier content either, the new quad (4T) was there from the beginning, and even then it only achieved a reasonably good shape by the end of it. Had they added it later it might not have been enough time. Maybe some skaters (like Liza) can add a new jump to competition programs in a well-timed manner and be assured a success but I don't think Misha is one of them. It has been all about trial and error with him, without any magic shortcuts.

In terms of "asked of him" I think upping the tech gets attributed to outside pressure too much in Misha's case instead of to his own initiative as it is with other skaters (e.g. Chen). People seem to forget that he has plans and ambitions which stretch beyond simply producing a clean skate. Unsuccessful skates can potentially damage his confidence, but who is to say that taking the easy way out won't? Yes, he would like to skate clean but not at the price of excluding any difficult element that can potentially cause problems. I am not sure he is interested in proving to himself that he can skate perfect programs if he makes them easy enough.
 
vorravorra said:
In terms of "asked of him" I think upping the tech gets attributed to outside pressure too much in Misha's case instead of to his own initiative as it is with other skaters (e.g. Chen). People seem to forget that he has plans and ambitions which stretch beyond simply producing a clean skate. Unsuccessful skates can potentially damage his confidence, but who is to say that taking the easy way out won't? Yes, he would like to skate clean but not at the price of excluding any difficult element that can potentially cause problems. I am not sure he is interested in proving to himself that he can skate perfect programs if he makes them easy enough.
Click to expand...

Well, he himself admitted in an interview that outside pressure contributed to his decision to do 4Lz at NHK. It's not a matter of unsuccessful skates damaging his confidence - it's a matter of impossible expectations damaging his confidence. Nobody thought he'd be satisfied with producing clean skates without a second kind of quad forever, but putting 4Lz into his LP after just three weeks of practicing it is going to the opposite extreme.

But if the video posted by Cathlen above is anything to go by, he might actually have it mastered by Nationals! This attempt looks so natural and easy!
 
Spiral said:
But if the video posted by Cathlen above is anything to go by, he might actually have it mastered by Nationals! This attempt looks so natural and easy!
Click to expand...

If you look at the previous page you will see that I wasn't first. I justed wanted to let know that fandom is finally commenting on it. I recommend to look at the video vorravorra posted :)
 
Spiral said:
Well, he himself admitted in an interview that outside pressure contributed to his decision to do 4Lz at NHK. It's not a matter of unsuccessful skates damaging his confidence - it's a matter of impossible expectations damaging his confidence. Nobody thought he'd be satisfied with producing clean skates without a second kind of quad forever, but putting 4Lz into his LP after just three weeks of practicing it is going to the opposite extreme.

But if the video posted by Cathlen above is anything to go by, he might actually have it mastered by Nationals! This attempt looks so natural and easy!
Click to expand...

I don't want to sound negative - please believe I am excited & happy that quad lutz looks so amazing. However, Valentina saying in the video (posted by Vorravorra) that it was the first error-free 4lz and that was apparently sometime between CoR and NHK. What would be interesting to know is what a success rate of doing it in practice now? Normally only if its something like 8/10 a jump would be considered a competition ready?
What nerve wrecking Russian Nats going to be!
 
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adelia said:
It would be nice to give a little bit of credit to the person who bothered to type out the schedule, since you copy-pasted most of it from the Petrov Fanfest. You could have just quoted me and it would be fine. Or, head over to the fsrussia website yourself, since you read Russian and type out the schedule yourself.
Click to expand...

My apologies, the post edited
 
vorravorra said:
I took it to mean that the problem is in competitions, not in run-throughs, because otherwise saying "4S is as good as 4T in practices" makes zero sense. An element is not fine in practices if you can't skate it as part of a program. Of course we only heard that sentence second-hand and don't know either the context or whether it's an exact quote, so it's all guesswork.
Yes we can't be sure but from what was relayed ie 'fine on its own but a mental block once the music starts' I assumed it was about full run-throughs.

I got the impression that the only time he felt that level of readiness last season was at Worlds. Before that his quad was too unstable to rely on (he gave a figure of 60% mid-season iirc) in addition to various other sundry problems that kept cropping up. His FS at Nationals was pretty shaky but fortunately it turned out to be enough.

They didn't really start last season with easier content either, the new quad (4T) was there from the beginning, and even then it only achieved a reasonably good shape by the end of it. Had they added it later it might not have been enough time. Maybe some skaters (like Liza) can add a new jump to competition programs in a well-timed manner and be assured a success but I don't think Misha is one of them. It has been all about trial and error with him, without any magic shortcuts.

In terms of "asked of him" I think upping the tech gets attributed to outside pressure too much in Misha's case instead of to his own initiative as it is with other skaters (e.g. Chen). People seem to forget that he has plans and ambitions which stretch beyond simply producing a clean skate. Unsuccessful skates can potentially damage his confidence, but who is to say that taking the easy way out won't? Yes, he would like to skate clean but not at the price of excluding any difficult element that can potentially cause problems. I am not sure he is interested in proving to himself that he can skate perfect programs if he makes them easy enough.
Click to expand...

You are right about 4T it was not reliable last season and most of the time it looked more like a lack of confidence rather than a tech issue when he fell or had a step-out on it. I wish Mika had same ability to save his landings as Hanyu for example - but sure it will come with more experience?
The discussion of a clean & easier vs more difficult content can and will go on as long as FS exists. But right now we just have to wait for next week and support Mika no matter what. Remember his interview after Boston where he said something like: 'I've reached my ceiling, now I need to go beyond it'
Well we knew that was not going to be easy...
 
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