Mikhail Kolyada

[vorravorra]

Btw, did he tend to pop jumps in the pre-Olympic seasons or did he mostly rotate before falling?

Sighs, the 2S.... I could almost hear his brain thinking while setting it up. I agree with you rachno2, I'm more worried about the failed jumps during comps becoming more and more ingrained in his mind rather than RusNats at this point. Such a confidence killer. Sending all the zen vibes to Misha though!

He popped every single 4S attempt in the pre-Olympic season, which is why they took it out. And Euros 2017 marked the onset of 3A pops. I think the only 3A fall was last season when he tried to jump it instead of a 2A at the end of the program, otherwise he either lands it or pops it. He tripled his 4T in the SP at NHK 2016. 3Lo was always wonky.

 

[rachno2]

I watched the KnC and that may be the most tired I’ve seen him all season. He was still breathing heavily when the scores were being announced. The runny nose continues to be a problem, too. I don’t believe for a second he has gotten over the sinusitis; I worry it is even worse

 

[vorravorra]

I watched the KnC and that may be the most tired I’ve seen him all season. He was still breathing heavily when the scores were being announced. The runny nose continues to be a problem, too. I don’t believe for a second he has gotten over the sinusitis; I worry it is even worse

He is not up to the content he is trying to skate. I don't know at this point, go back to Nepela?.. He probably can't afford to.

 

[rachno2]

He is not up to the content he is trying to skate. I don't know at this point, go back to Nepela?.. He probably can't afford to.

I don’t understand why he didn’t just do that in the first place, after CoR. He said he knew exactly what he had to do, and then he experiments with another, more challenging layout? I don’t get it.

Watching this skate, I think I do want him to take the rest of the season off. It wasn’t terrible, he put up a good fight, but his body seems to be telling him “no” right now. He’ll probably still make the European and World team, but do we really want him there when he isn’t in shape physically and the stakes are even higher? I’m sure he’ll keep forcing his body through the rest of the season, though

 

[vorravorra]

I don’t understand why he didn’t just do that in the first place, after CoR. He said he knew exactly what he had to do, and then he experiments with another, more challenging layout? I don’t get it.

Watching this skate, I think I do want him to take the rest of the season off. It wasn’t terrible, he put up a good fight, but his body seems to be telling him “no” right now. He’ll probably still make the European and World team, but do we really want him there when he isn’t in shape physically and the stakes are even higher? I’m sure he’ll keep forcing his body through the rest of the season, though

Yes, it's unbelievable how out of breath he was still by the time the scores were announced. And he can't make it 5 minutes without pulling out tissues apparently. All this "but it's just that ice affects him this way", how come that wasn't the case before? Too much of a coincidence that after sinusitis he suddenly developed this totally unrelated runny runny nose problem.

 

[rachno2]

I will say that, as tired as he seemed, he stayed on top of the music well, and he didn't let the falls/pops affect his timing like at CoR. This might have been his most musical performance of the season. :agree:

 

[vorravorra]

I will say that, as tired as he seemed, he stayed on top of the music well, and he didn't let the falls/pops affect his timing like at CoR. This might have been his most musical performance of the season. :agree:

Except I don't think the new music cut fits well with the step sequence, though of course that is not a fault of his performance. I understand why they changed it but this version isn't the best either.

 

[RoundedBackCamel]

I am still getting up to speed with this thread and my new favorite skater. (I can really pick them; the last star I hitched my wagon to was Jeremy Abbott right before Sochi Olympics. That one did me in nearly for good, lol). Very interesting reading all of this thread. I bow to all of your impressive knowledge! I’m still catching up to the judging changes. (Subscribing to NBC Gold has really helped me see the bigger picture; before, it was watching YouTubes here and there and occasionally IceNetwork, when I could remember my password!)

So, looking through the early pre-GP competitions, I see the choreography/layout has changed from, say, Finlandia. I’m not liking the new one, as I felt the earlier choreo, like the stag leaps (so Russian, swoon) fit the beats of the music better. So, when did it change?

As far as quads go, although the new system favors them less (before, it could be a splatfest and the attempted quads were still going to get crazy-high marks; see Hanyu’s first Olt Gold), I really dislike the idea of skating clean to be “safe”. The nature of sport is to push the envelope. People and JB fans have been waiting for him to add the quad to his arsenal for, what?, six years? Relying on high PCS without technical content seems to me cheating a little. Too bad Misha wasn’t considered a top contender when the era of spin-and-splat-and-score-high anyway was in its heyday! It may have helped him get the splats out of his system because he would need to commit—results be damned—and less likely to do the dreaded pops. Taking quads out that could conceivably be performed smacks a little of the step backwards the sport took after Kylie and Yagudin and Plushy were doing quads, and then Evan comes along and just gross for the clean triples and to ensure an US win at SLC. That was 12 years ago! And the Yagudin-Plushenko era a couple years before that! (Ah, for the days of being a Yagudin Stan. He wins at four out of five world championships, wins gold, then needs to retire from competitive skating the next year because of a congenital hi problem made worse by his choice of sport. It’s like having the perfect era under glass. He had a long career, not cashing it in at earliest opportunity, like Tara and Sat, but not having to skate into late 20s, although how much fun was that rivalry!

 

[vorravorra]

Misha can hardly be accused of hiding from quads and what he has definitely done enough is splat. It was what, three falls per competition last season on average? He was prepared to do that because it still brought high scores and he had the stamina to pull it off. And in 2016-2017 he fell on every damn 4Lz.
This isn't about being able to do quads conceivably or even not conceivably but skating a full program with them. Quads didn't help Misha in the free skate in Moscow. And if you go for quads you are not ready to do right now it'll land you where Boyang is at the moment. Misha is not the only skater in his country who can afford to experiment with whatever.

 

[rachno2]

I am still getting up to speed with this thread and my new favorite skater. (I can really pick them; the last star I hitched my wagon to was Jeremy Abbott right before Sochi Olympics. That one did me in nearly for good, lol).

Welcome to the most stressed-out fan fest on GS! :agree:

Poor Misha and Jeremy had similar Olympic experiences, didn’t they?

 

[vorravorra]

I hope they at least got over their "let's try 3A as a sixth jump! Never mind that we never got that adventurous even last season" bright idea. The main thing at Nationals is not to bomb the SP and Zagreb was a step in the right direction in that respect.

 

[rachno2]

I hope they at least got over their "let's try 3A as a sixth jump! Never mind that we never got that adventurous even last season" bright idea. The main thing at Nationals is not to bomb the SP and Zagreb was a step in the right direction in that respect.

Is it better to keep a bad layout or to change the layout yet again?

Sigh....the one thing this week showed is that nobody in Russia is stepping up. Misha is out here stumbling through his programs, struggling to breathe, and he still is looking more promising than everybody else, as far as I’m concerned.

As for not bombing the short program at Nationals.....I’m not getting my hopes up. I’ll believe it when I see it

 

[eaglehelang]

I hope Russia Fed wouldnt be too hard on Kolyada (& Samarin) for losing to quadless Jason Brown.
Then I got thinking, whether Kolyada can pull off even 7 triples with his current stamina. Jason did 2 combos in 2nd half.
Or young Cha Jun Hwan's layout of only 4S, 4T in the LP. Falling on 1 quad at most competitions, Cha still won bronze with consistency.
Kolyada can do 4T, 4T+3T, replace his 3 Loop with another jump. At least till his health is better.

Of course that's just wishful thinking. Dont think they would ever go for easier layout though

 

[vorravorra]

I hope Russia Fed wouldnt be too hard on Kolyada (& Samarin) for losing to quadless Jason Brown.
Then I got thinking, whether Kolyada can pull off even 7 triples with his current stamina. Jason did 2 combos in 2nd half.
Or young Cha Jun Hwan's layout of only 4S, 4T in the LP. Falling on 1 quad at most competitions, Cha still won bronze with consistency.
Kolyada can do 4T, 4T+3T, replace his 3 Loop with another jump. At least till his health is better.

Of course that's just wishful thinking. Dont think they would ever go for easier layout though

He can replace 3Lo with a 2A. And if they don't go for an easier layout than in Zagreb I will start to doubt their common sense (and sanity). Three quads and 2 3As was frankly too much for him even last season, I can't see how it is possibly doable for him now. And he doesn't need it to make it to Euros/Worlds. If you go by last couple of seasons he doesn't even need two quads and two 3As to win, never mind get bronze.

I do wonder, though....is it really the harder tech content that’s the problem? It certainly isn’t helping, but he couldn’t skate clean at Nepela and Finlandia with simpler layouts, either. At this point we just have a perfect storm of poor health, zapped confidence, and inconsistent layouts. And Misha’s usual instability.

He did better than with harder content which is what matters. Nobody is expecting for him to be clean at this point and he didn't need to be clean to score over 160 in the free skate.

 

[vorravorra]

Misha has lost to quadless Jason Brown before, by the way, and not at a Challenger event. Samarin of course did too, his PB is hardly in the "how could you have lost to Jason???" range. I don't get this "people who try quads even if they screw up most/all of them or screw up the rest of the program should never score below those who are quadless" idea. You have difficult content, skate it, or don't complain. Boyang has how many quads and how well did he place at his last three competitions? Samohin can do two different quads, ditto Moris. If they are not scoring as well as they should it is not someone else's problem.

 

[rachno2]

Misha has lost to quadless Jason Brown before, by the way, and not at a Challenger event. Samarin of course did too, his PB is hardly in the "how could you have lost to Jason???" range. I don't get this "people who try quads even if they screw up most/all of them or screw up the rest of the program should never score below those who are quadless" idea. You have difficult content, skate it, or don't complain. Boyang has how many quads and how well did he place at his last three competitions? Samohin can do two different quads, ditto Moris. If they are not scoring as well as they should it is not someone else's problem.

The quads > clean skate narrative might prevail in Russia (at least that’s the impression I get), but I don’t really see it prevailing elsewhere. I still remember all the hate Misha got in the American media for placing above a quadless Adam in the team event LP (accusations of bribery, national headlines, snarky comments from active skaters who should know better, etc.) You have to protect your own, I guess.

I do love watching quads (especially when Misha lands them ), but nobody seems to be getting them right this season, so I don’t find Jason’s win shameful at all. He’s a quality skater who put out a terrific short program and a decent free, and he should be seen as a worthy challenger to all the men, quads or no quads.

 

[RoundedBackCamel]

Welcome to the most stressed-out fan fest on GS! :agree:

Poor Misha and Jeremy had similar Olympic experiences, didn’t they?

Sigh. Yes. But it was Jeremy's last *last* chance, at 28. AND he had one of the most infamous literal wipeouts in the history of the Olys, crashing into the boards. For added pain, I can go back to rooting for Kurt Browning and his dashed Olys hopes in the long program after having a spectacular sp. And for Michelle over Tara (I still avoid watching 1998, was it?, ladies event and *still* hit Mute if "the scream heard 'round the world" comes on). As for Sasha, I was still stanning Michelle but when MK's era was over, I was definitely rooting for Sasha--that was soooo stressful! I can even reach back to other contenders who were held great promise but whose hopes were dashed because of circumstances both within and outside their control--Chris Bowman, Scott Brown, I guess I'll throw Yagudin in as a career tragically cut short. And more recently and perhaps most painfully, Joshua Farris.

I tend to root for the old lions making a comeback, as now I can relate personally, but as much as I like Voronov's and Brezina's backstories--I don't NEARLY enough to want them to sully Misha's chances!

I definitely root for underdogs, has-beens, and Cinderella stories in all sports. Most of all, those with incredible gifts that haven't yet been able to keep it together and show the world.

But I'm seriously considering just rooting for Hanyu and calling it a day. Kidding. But my nerves are shot! (And I like Shoma better not for underdog reasons but just that his performances move me in a way that Hanyu's and Chan's can't *quite* match. Not quantifiable at all.)

 

[coldblueeyes]

Misha could win RN with one clean quad per program, scoring above 95+ and 175+. The same is true for Euros, and perhaps even Worlds with the way most guys are skating. The key is still the short, though. He's been scoring around the same in the FS now for a bunch of competitions, not that it's doing him any good to splat around.

 

[vorravorra]

The quads > clean skate narrative might prevail in Russia (at least that’s the impression I get), but I don’t really see it prevailing elsewhere. I still remember all the hate Misha got in the American media for placing above a quadless Adam in the team event LP (accusations of bribery, snarky comments from active skaters who should know better, etc.) You have to protect your own, I guess.

I like quads (especially when Misha lands them ), but nobody seems to be getting them right this season. Jason’s win was deserved and not shameful at all; he’s a quality skater who put out a terrific short program and a decent free

Misha wasn't yet anybody important in 2016-2017. Reputation matters plus he objectively wasn't as good two seasons ago. Now losing to someone quadless is seen as a fall from grace.

The quads do beat a clean skate in the end - how often do the top men skate clean, and how many major completions have clean but quadless men won recently? But having nothing but quads and only doing those once in a blue moon won't get you anywhere much.

Misha could win RN with one clean quad per program, scoring above 95+ and 175+. The same is true for Euros, and perhaps even Worlds with the way most guys are skating. The key is still the short, though. He's been scoring around the same in the FS now for a bunch of competitions, not that it's doing him any good to splat around.

Last season Misha won Nationals with no clean quads in the free skate, and only one 3A. He certainly doesn't need three quads to get on the podium, it's Nationals not Worlds. Three men are not going to deliver top multi-quad performances to displace him. I agree that the short is the key and at least that has progressed.

 

[vorravorra]

Misha was very off in the gala today. Really hope he isn’t hiding an injury

Didn't watch, what happened?