Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

[LiamForeman]

That's it in a nutshell. You'd think Mirai would have learned after all these years that you MUST soldier on even after making a mistake and continue as if the mistake had never happened. A champion does not give up mid-performance! Start the program with energy, end it the same way, and always smile when it's over.

Well, I can't believe that the Mirai who won a national title at 14 just fizzled like she did. She used to have a performance level, but she has looked bored and lethargic for years. She was on the way to being one of my favorite skaters of all time, on the level of a Tiffany Chin, and she just appeared to give up. And yeah, giving up on a performance or just having no performance level is a no-no. We all fall and make mistakes, it's natural, but this is a performance sport. You can't let it go. It would make my year to see Mirai skate with joy and energy and start getting the scores she is capable of.

 

[SkatingFun]

total agree.

For 2014 National, all I remembered for Mirai's FS was that she took long seconds pause and resting, nothing else memorable. LOL..

Polina had a great JGP season. She won both of her events and qualified 2nd for the JGPF. At the Final, yeah, she had a bad SP but placed 2nd in the FS...everybody is going to have an off night at some point.

I do think Polina's PCS got a sizable boost at nationals but that was to be expected. She skated lights out in the SP (and was one of the highlights of the segment) and then had a very strong FS with two 3-3s. Of course they were going to boost her over Mirai. Polina threw down the gauntlet...she kinda deserved it.

I love Mirai to pieces but her leave it to the last minute skating was not the way to go. Had Mirai started off her season with that kind of determination and fight, she more than likely would have received that spot to Sochi. We all know better skating = more rep with the judges = higher PCS. Had she been skating great all season instead of just at nationals, Polina wouldn't have beat her b/c Mirai would have earned higher PCS.

Mirai is capable of getting higher PCS but when she skates slowly and with little to no performance in her performance, she doesn't deserve those higher scores. I hope she realizes that. It's amazing how much better she looks when she skates with energy and life...even if everything is going downhill, she should learn not to drop the performance. Hopefully that's a lesson she'll learn this season. Judging from SLC, she still has a way to go. As lovely as her programs were, she was still a little ZZZZzzz :disapp:

 

[Jammers]

Mirai arguably had a better season than Polina, but neither had a good enough season to knock a higher placed finisher off the team. I fully agree with aromaticchicken that Gracie in 4th would not have been sent. She also had a mediocre GP season and a poor finish at nationals would have capped off a disappointing season. Ashley had a great season leading up to nationals and was solid the year before, not losing to any American skaters for several seasons in a row.

I do agree that Polina's PCS was very inflated. I think she was fortunate to skate so late in the SP at nationals and than naturally boosted her scores, but her PCS relative to Ashley and Mirai was very surprising.

Polina had a better season heading into Nationals then Mirai did. Polina took herself out of medal contention at the JGPF in the SP but otherwise won both of her events leading into the final and was consistent all season. Mirai on the other hand only won one medal at COR and was terrible at NHK and finished 4th at Findlandia.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Polina had a better season heading into Nationals then Mirai did. Polina took herself out of medal contention at the JGPF in the SP but otherwise won both of her events leading into the final and was consistent all season. Mirai on the other hand only won one medal at COR and was terrible at NHK and finished 4th at Findlandia.

I should have said "one can argue that Mirai had a better season" because i do agree Polina was more impressive. My point was that neither was head and shoulders above the other to justify earning an Olympic spot over the higher placed national finisher.

 

[silverlake22]

Wasn't it Polina though who competed as a junior in the first half of the season, skated a mediocre sp two events in a raw and even with a clean fs in the final wasn't able to beat three russian baby girls who weren't super clean themselves?

Edmunds got a huge pcs boost at Nationals that helped her to finish second.

But the PCS she received at Nationals were comparable to what she got at the Olympics and Worlds. So perhaps the PCS boost at Nationals was more a reflection of competing as a senior vs. a junior more than anything else?

 

[jenaj]

But the PCS she received at Nationals were comparable to what she got at the Olympics and Worlds. So perhaps the PCS boost at Nationals was more a reflection of competing as a senior vs. a junior more than anything else?

Polina still looks and skates like a junior. Does anyone really consider her a "performer?"

 

[hippomoomin]

Polina is far more exciting to watch than Mirai at this point, "junior" or not. Personally I think Yulia is juniorish too, but that does not prevent her from receiving high PCSs. Polina is the only US lady who has the jumps comparable to Russian girls. We should look at Mirai's own problems rather than findings flaws in other skaters.

 

[jenaj]

Polina is far more exciting to watch than Mirai at this point, "junior" or not. Personally I think Yulia is juniorish too, but that does not prevent her from receiving high PCSs. Polina is the only US lady who has the jumps comparable to Russian girls. We should look at Mirai's own problems rather than findings flaws in other skaters.

A lot of people seem to be jumping on the Polina bandwagon without really thinking about what they are seeing--a young girl who charitably might be called coltish, who can do a nice triple-triple but is otherwise not particularly outstanding in other respects. She is packaged poorly, with frilly costumes and braided hair. The Russian babies do everything she does, only better, with impressive spins and spirals (Julia) and more personality (Elena). And say what you will about Adelina, she was rightfully on the podium at the Olympics and Polina was 9th. Maybe she will develop into the next American star, but she is not there yet and has a long uphill climb on the international level.

 

[karne]

A lot of people seem to be jumping on the Polina bandwagon without really thinking about what they are seeing--a young girl who charitably might be called coltish, who can do a nice triple-triple but is otherwise not particularly outstanding in other respects. \

It's not Polina's fault that Mirai can't rotate her jumps. Or that Mirai had ONE good competition in the season and expected to be able to make the team.

 

[tulosai]

It's not Polina's fault that Mirai can't rotate her jumps. Or that Mirai had ONE good competition in the season and expected to be able to make the team.

I mean though, Mirai having problems doesn't mean Polina doesn't have problems and is the next coming of Yuna Kim. At this point, objectively, I'd say they're both mediocre skaters, with Polina more likely to have higher international results at this time because the things she is pretty bad at are penalized less under COP than the things Mirai is pretty bad at.

Please note that when I say they are both mediocre I am not referring to the feelings anyone gets watching either of them, which are subjective and not really worth arguing over as it's pretty stupid to have a back and forth that is essentially 'your subjective opinion is stupid! no your subjective opinion is stupid!'. What I am saying is that they both have clear and substantial weaknesses at this time that can be objectively seen by anyone who is being honest with themselves.

 

[Mrs. P]

It's not Polina's fault that Mirai can't rotate her jumps. Or that Mirai had ONE good competition in the season and expected to be able to make the team.

As golden411 pointed out earlier, the past practice was to send the top 3 (or 2, depending on the number of spots) at nationals REGARDLESS of how they did earlier in season, so it wasn't unreasonable for Mirai to expect that she would be chosen in the team.

Under your premise, then Gracie Gold should have not been picked to the World team in 2013. Up to that point she had a similar season to Mirai in 2013-2014; she finished 2nd behind Agnes Zawadski in a competition she should have won; she was 7th at Skate Canada and 2nd in Rostelecom Cup. She had finished 9th in the SP at Nationals.

I mean though, Mirai having problems doesn't mean Polina doesn't have problems and is the next coming of Yuna Kim. At this point, objectively, I'd say they're both mediocre skaters, with Polina more likely to have higher international results at this time because the things she is pretty bad at are penalized less under COP than the things Mirai is pretty bad at.

Please note that when I say they are both mediocre I am not referring to the feelings anyone gets watching either of them, which are subjective and not really worth arguing over as it's pretty stupid to have a back and forth that is essentially 'your subjective opinion is stupid! no your subjective opinion is stupid!'. What I am saying is that they both have clear and substantial weaknesses at this time that can be objectively seen by anyone who is being honest with themselves.

Polina has had UR problems in the past, which is why she was not sent to any JGP events in the 2012-2013 season. IIRC her scores FS scores were all over the place. At one event shed score in the 110-range then the next she would drop down to the 80s at the next.

She's obviously come a long way since then. But she has things to work on, like anyone else.

So while I wouldn't go as far as tulosai and say she's a mediocre skater, I'd agree that she isn't the silver bullet that some think she is either. I also think it's reasonable if people don't connect with her. Yes, that's a subjective opinion, but people have those feelings.

 

[chuckm]

A lot of people seem to be jumping on the Polina bandwagon without really thinking about what they are seeing--a young girl who charitably might be called coltish, who can do a nice triple-triple but is otherwise not particularly outstanding in other respects. She is packaged poorly, with frilly costumes and braided hair. The Russian babies do everything she does, only better, with impressive spins and spirals (Julia) and more personality (Elena). And say what you will about Adelina, she was rightfully on the podium at the Olympics and Polina was 9th. Maybe she will develop into the next American star, but she is not there yet and has a long uphill climb on the international level.

I guess you didn't see Polina's SP at the US International Classic. No frilly costume or braided hair.

Bear in mind that "the Russian babies" (meaning Sotnikova, Radionova and Lipnitskaia) have had YEARS of international Junior AND Senior competition experience and even more years of internal Russian competition experience while Polina has had just ONE season of mixed Junior/Senior experience, yet she was able to finish top 10 at both Olympics and Worlds.

This was Adelina's FOURTH year of competition and her SECOND year of Senior competition, and she was skating before an adoring audience with a favorable tech team and a judging panel stacked in her favor as well.

You may characterize Polina as coltish and gangly, but to my eyes she is amazingly graceful. She is also quite consistent, which cannot be said in any way about Mirai Nagasu, who has to be the most inconsistent American skater ever.

 

[tulosai]

So while I wouldn't go as far as tulosai and say she's a mediocre skater, I'd agree that she isn't the silver bullet that some think she is either. I also think it's reasonable if people don't connect with her. Yes, that's a subjective opinion, but people have those feelings.

I should clarify that my use of the word mediocre is loose. I think they are currently mediocre, at least in certain areas, compared to other elite skaters. Obviously both are great skaters in their own right to have made it to this level at all.

 

[tulosai]

t Mirai Nagasu, who has to be the most inconsistent American skater ever.

Oh come now. Nicole Bobek didn't even compete that long ago and was much much more inconsistent than Mirai. Alyssa Czisny was more inconsistent. I could go on. I know you were stating this for dramatic effect, but really. No one is saying she's consistent, but the most inconsistent ever? No sir.

 

[Mathman]

Obviously both are great skaters in their own right to have made it to this level at all.

 

[noskates]

I think mediocre is a bit harsh for either Mirai or Polina. Mirai has had some mediocre skates - no doubt about that! But when she's "on" she's a polished performer with beautiful lines and music interpretation. Mediocre to me means they can never rise above "less-than-average!"

Polina is still young but to call her a mediocre skater is a travesty - and putting spin on the definition doesn't make it any better. Her first time out on the senior level she took a silver at the US Nationals. I would hardly call that mediocre. Does she need styling? Oh hell yes. Those braids and those little girl dresses have to go. Does she have technical issues? What skater out there doesn't. I think it's totally unfair to compare Mirai and Polina at this point based on the 2014 Nationals.

I can hardly wait for Skate America so some of this discussion can be put by the wayside. Mirai has something to prove this year - definitely. Polina still has a few years to prove what she can do in my opinion. They are not on a par in any sense of the word at this point in their careers. One is just starting and the other has had starts and stops for at least 5 years now.

 

[Jammers]

As golden411 pointed out earlier, the past practice was to send the top 3 (or 2, depending on the number of spots) at nationals REGARDLESS of how they did earlier in season, so it wasn't unreasonable for Mirai to expect that she would be chosen in the team.

Under your premise, then Gracie Gold should have not been picked to the World team in 2013. Up to that point she had a similar season to Mirai in 2013-2014; she finished 2nd behind Agnes Zawadski in a competition she should have won; she was 7th at Skate Canada and 2nd in Rostelecom Cup. She had finished 9th in the SP at Nationals.




Polina has had UR problems in the past, which is why she was not sent to any JGP events in the 2012-2013 season. IIRC her scores FS scores were all over the place. At one event shed score in the 110-range then the next she would drop down to the 80s at the next.

She's obviously come a long way since then. But she has things to work on, like anyone else.

So while I wouldn't go as far as tulosai and say she's a mediocre skater, I'd agree that she isn't the silver bullet that some think she is either. I also think it's reasonable if people don't connect with her. Yes, that's a subjective opinion, but people have those feelings.

And who exactly was going to be sent instead of Gracie to Worlds in 2013? It wasn't like anyone who finished behind her at those Nationals had a great record over the last couple years. Besides Gracie had just skated lights out with one of the greatest jumping displays in US Nationals history and the USFSA also knew Gracie had the potential to do well at Worlds.

 

[Mathman]

In retrospect it was clear that the USFSA was going to send Ashley (provided she finished in the top five at Nationals) and the top two finishers among the others.

 

[Mrs. P]

And who exactly was going to be sent instead of Gracie to Worlds in 2013? It wasn't like anyone who finished behind her at those Nationals had a great record over the last couple years. Besides Gracie had just skated lights out with one of the greatest jumping displays in US Nationals history and the USFSA also knew Gracie had the potential to do well at Worlds.

I'm not saying Gracie shouldn't have been sent. My point was that I don't think Mirai should be scolded for being upset at not being chosen for the team because past practice showed that top 2 or 3 at National goes. And even then I don't think Mirai was entitled or anything. She knew there was a criteria and when Ashley fared poorly at Nationals, she knew that her spot was in jeopardy.

In retrospect it was clear that the USFSA was going to send Ashley (provided she finished in the top five at Nationals) and the top two finishers among the others.

Yes, that is correct. But given how inconsistent they were with the formula, it was really hard to say whether they would actually do it.

ETA: A friendly reminder that we have a lovely thread on U.S. Ladies if you guys want to continue the discussion there (and keep this one to Mirai's future prospects): http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Season/page12&highlight=state+american+ladies

 

[kalle]

Next up, Japan Open. I hope she attack that 3F/3T in the short to get it "out there". I think it was a shame that she did not try again after her Glacier Falls (?)SP attempt last season. I am not one of those that is going to over analyze Mirai and her capacities, I am sure she is trying her best but when the head is not with you, it is difficult to be on top of the situation..
Mirai will always have a special place in my skate heart and I think she have proven quite a few times that she can bring the "A" game but unfortunately not as often as someone like Ashley who seems to give it all at all times despite the outcome..