Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

[karne]

Just looking at JO vids. It's sad that this spindly middle school student was 30 points ahead of Nagasu and Wagner. Radionova's leg positions are terrible. They are never togeather or straight. Everything looks like it's on a pait of stilts. Ugly to look at.

Yeah, well, this "spindly middle school student" can actually rotate her jumps and sell a program, sorry to bust your bubble.

 

[MalAssada]

Kwanatic, I'll start following your blog as well

 

[kwanatic]

Kwanatic, I'll start following your blog as well

Thank you! :yay:

 

[Candy clouds]

Does any have Mirai's exhibition # at Japan Open??

 

[CoyoteChris]

Hey, I LIKE this blog! I am book marking it....!

Yes, thank you Sam! I'm not allowed to self-promote here so for that shout out!

Psst...I update it weekly.

 

[jenaj]

I agree that Elena still looks very young but the fact is she's only 15 years old. She is young, but that shouldn't be held against her.

I actually agree with Elena's PCS. She maintains good speed and covers the ice well (SS). Her program appears to be a little busy at times but it's b/c it is packed full of transitions throughout; whether she's going into a jump/spin or coming out of one, there's some kind of transition (TR). You don't see Elena just doing crossovers to set up her elements. She is completely engaged in the performance from start to finish. She never looks like she's just going through the motions. She connects, projects and sells her program very well (PE). For a 15 year old, she interprets the music wonderfully. I never get the sense Elena is skating through her music; she moves with it and that's something that many skaters older than her aren't capable of doing (IN). Her choreography (CH) isn't the absolute best but it is good enough. There are musical moments in the program and the movements are phrased well. Additionally, IMO anyway, her natural ability to perform elevates whatever choreography she's doing.

Though people like to point to the fact that Elena looks like a little girl, the reality is she's meeting all of the criteria in the PCS category. With all of these younger skaters coming into the mix, I'm beginning to realize that maturity isn't part of PCS. I definitely think maturity should factor into the scores but when a person's only major fault is that they look like a little girl, I don't think that argument has much merit...especially when the mature skaters in the field aren't bringing anything to the table. Just because someone is younger/smaller/doesn't have a mature appearance doesn't mean they deserve less credit for what they do on the ice.

IMO, Elena was close to 30 point better than Ashley and Mirai. She out-jumped and out-performed both of them. Ashley's program isn't soup yet and with her jumps MIA and her spins sub par, I don't think she deserved a great score. I do think she received a few bogus < calls but even without them, she did not skate well at all. Mirai put forth a great effort in terms of attacking her program BUT she still isn't getting all of her jumps around. In addition to that, she's not selling the program from start to finish. That energy and sparkle she brought to the last 30 seconds of her program should have been there from the beginning. Mirai's footwork was a only a level 2; her layback spin was great but the other two spins, though they had nice positions, were a bit slow.

I do think both Ashley and Mirai deserved higher PCS in certain areas but the fact of the matter remains neither of them deserves scores that would put them anywhere near what Elena or Satoko did based on their performances at JO. Until they can rotate and land their jumps, max their elements and perform their programs, they don't deserve to score as well as the stronger, albeit younger, skaters in the field.

This is a new quad and I'm glad the judges aren't holding seniority against these younger skaters. I am fully supportive of judges awarding skaters for what they do on the ice rather than who they are or how old they are...

I don't disagree with Elena's PCS. I disagree with PCS in general because it under-values artistry and creates weird disparities among scores on programs that, on their face, don't look that much different. Skating skills and transitions are technical elements. Choreography should belong to the choreographer. When applied to the skater it is no different, really, than performance/execution. If we were only talking about presentation or artistic impression as it used to be called, I think Elena's score would be more in the high 6s or 7s, not in the 8s and 9s. Her tech, of course, would still be very high.

 

[gotoschool]

I agree that Elena still looks very young but the fact is she's only 15 years old. She is young, but that shouldn't be held against her.

I actually agree with Elena's PCS. She maintains good speed and covers the ice well (SS). Her program appears to be a little busy at times but it's b/c it is packed full of transitions throughout; whether she's going into a jump/spin or coming out of one, there's some kind of transition (TR). You don't see Elena just doing crossovers to set up her elements. She is completely engaged in the performance from start to finish. She never looks like she's just going through the motions. She connects, projects and sells her program very well (PE). For a 15 year old, she interprets the music wonderfully. I never get the sense Elena is skating through her music; she moves with it and that's something that many skaters older than her aren't capable of doing (IN). Her choreography (CH) isn't the absolute best but it is good enough. There are musical moments in the program and the movements are phrased well. Additionally, IMO anyway, her natural ability to perform elevates whatever choreography she's doing.

Though people like to point to the fact that Elena looks like a little girl, the reality is she's meeting all of the criteria in the PCS category. With all of these younger skaters coming into the mix, I'm beginning to realize that maturity isn't part of PCS. I definitely think maturity should factor into the scores but when a person's only major fault is that they look like a little girl, I don't think that argument has much merit...especially when the mature skaters in the field aren't bringing anything to the table. Just because someone is younger/smaller/doesn't have a mature appearance doesn't mean they deserve less credit for what they do on the ice.

IMO, Elena was close to 30 point better than Ashley and Mirai. She out-jumped and out-performed both of them. Ashley's program isn't soup yet and with her jumps MIA and her spins sub par, I don't think she deserved a great score. I do think she received a few bogus < calls but even without them, she did not skate well at all. Mirai put forth a great effort in terms of attacking her program BUT she still isn't getting all of her jumps around. In addition to that, she's not selling the program from start to finish. That energy and sparkle she brought to the last 30 seconds of her program should have been there from the beginning. Mirai's footwork was a only a level 2; her layback spin was great but the other two spins, though they had nice positions, were a bit slow.

I do think both Ashley and Mirai deserved higher PCS in certain areas but the fact of the matter remains neither of them deserves scores that would put them anywhere near what Elena or Satoko did based on their performances at JO. Until they can rotate and land their jumps, max their elements and perform their programs, they don't deserve to score as well as the stronger, albeit younger, skaters in the field.

This is a new quad and I'm glad the judges aren't holding seniority against these younger skaters. I am fully supportive of judges awarding skaters for what they do on the ice rather than who they are or how old they are...

I appreciate your thoughtful post.

I really sympathized with Mirai when I saw the upset expression on her face when her scores came up. I know she fell, but overall I felt she had good posture in and out of her jumps, improved speed from what I had seen recently, and a really beautiful Ina Bauer and Biellmann to close out her program. To be honest, her Ina Bauer was my favorite move among all the women. I thought she was Shizuka for a moment. I will admit she still needed a little more speed and more intricate footwork in her step sequences. But, I do think her PCS score was too low and that she got too many ur calls.

I wasn't going to mention Elena, but since she has been talked about on a Mirai thread, here are my thoughts. First, I can understand Elena getting the highest score (though I think a case could also be made for Satoko), but not 30 points higher than Mirai. In my opinion, quite a few Russian female skaters are scored too high on GOE in jumps but not Elena Medevedeva, who I think overall has the most beautiful- though not the biggest jumps among the Russians- because of her better posture and smoother motion, which Wakaba also has plus wonderful height and great flow. I just can't get used to the hunching from the waist up after the jump is landed which seems most noticeable in Radinova and Sakhanovich because it breaks the flow, continuity and aesthetically pleasing quality of the skating for me, and I think it should be reflected much more in GOE,. It's an opinion that others have mentioned. I also don't see this is in Mirai and I certainly haven't seen it in Mao or Kim. I expect this kind of posture for scores that are as high (or higher) than Mao and Kim have received (136+). Finally, I realize it depends on a person's preference, but I can't get used to Elena's (or Yulia's) constantly busy hand gestures and the constant turning without drawing out the extensions out more slowly. elegantly and deliberately which I thought Mao was so wonderful at, but which I also see Elena Medvedeva and Satoko developing. Mirai also did a great job in the extensions near the end of her program. This is something she can build on.

In the Japan Open, I thought that Satoko had better posture out of her jumps than Elena, but her lack of height took away quite a bit from this advantage, but I did prefer Satoko's overall artistry. Elena did have good energy level and emotional spark. I think Elena's PCS advantage on Satoko may be based partially on her reputation as back to back World Junior Champion. I don't understand why Mirai's PCS are lower than Ashely's at all.[SUP][/SUP]

 

[kwanatic]

I don't disagree with Elena's PCS. I disagree with PCS in general because it under-values artistry and creates weird disparities among scores on programs that, on their face, don't look that much different. Skating skills and transitions are technical elements. Choreography should belong to the choreographer. When applied to the skater it is no different, really, than performance/execution. If we were only talking about presentation or artistic impression as it used to be called, I think Elena's score would be more in the high 6s or 7s, not in the 8s and 9s. Her tech, of course, would still be very high.

I get where you're coming from here. I honestly think CH, PE and IN bleed into each other somewhat and could be combined to just be PE. I agree that in general PCS tend to miss the mark. It's rare that everything is scored individually. Instead they are put into a range of scores based on where the skater ranks in the field. My PCS for Elena in that performance would have been SS - 8.00, TR - 8.50 (amazing transitions through out), PE - 8.50 (fully engaged and committed throughout), CH - 7.50 (not the best in the field but good), IN - 8.25. That averages out to 65.20 in PCS. Taking into account that there are a range of scores calculated on the judging panel, I'd say say 64.25 is right on the money.

I appreciate your thoughtful post.

I really sympathized with Mirai when I saw the upset expression on her face when her scores came up. I know she fell, but overall I felt she had good posture in and out of her jumps, improved speed from what I had seen recently, and a really beautiful Ina Bauer and Biellmann to close out her program. To be honest, her Ina Bauer was my favorite move among all the women. I thought she was Shizuka for a moment. I will admit she still needed a little more speed and more intricate footwork in her step sequences. But, I do think her PCS score was too low and that she got too many ur calls.

I wasn't going to mention Elena, but since she has been talked about on a Mirai thread, here are my thoughts. First, I can understand Elena getting the highest score (though I think a case could also be made for Satoko), but not 30 points higher than Mirai. In my opinion, quite a few Russian female skaters are scored too high on GOE in jumps but not Elena Medevedeva, who I think overall has the most beautiful- though not the biggest jumps among the Russians- because of her better posture and smoother motion, which Wakaba also has plus wonderful height and great flow. I just can't get used to the hunching from the waist up after the jump is landed which seems most noticeable in Radinova and Sakhanovich because it breaks the flow, continuity and aesthetically pleasing quality of the skating for me, and I think it should be reflected much more in GOE,. It's an opinion that others have mentioned. I also don't see this is in Mirai and I certainly haven't seen it in Mao or Kim. I expect this kind of posture for scores that are as high (or higher) than Mao and Kim have received (136+). Finally, I realize it depends on a person's preference, but I can't get used to Elena's (or Yulia's) constantly busy hand gestures and the constant turning without drawing out the extensions out more slowly. elegantly and deliberately which I thought Mao was so wonderful at, but which I also see Elena Medvedeva and Satoko developing. Mirai also did a great job in the extensions near the end of her program. This is something she can build on.

In the Japan Open, I thought that Satoko had better posture out of her jumps than Elena, but her lack of height took away quite a bit from this advantage, but I did prefer Satoko's overall artistry. Elena did have good energy level and emotional spark. I think Elena's PCS advantage on Satoko may be based partially on her reputation as back to back World Junior Champion. I don't understand why Mirai's PCS are lower than Ashely's at all.[SUP][/SUP]

Mirai is in the same boat as Ashley, Liza T and Alena. She is not on the judges' radar which means she has to put herself on the radar. To do that, she basically has zero room for error. Mirai has a reputation as a chronic under-rotator which means the judges/callers will give her no leeway/benefit of the doubt when it comes to her jumps. If it looks even close to UR, they're going to assume that it is b/c history has shown that this particular skater is known for URing jumps. It's up to her to fix that. Additionally, and I keep harping on this but it's b/c it's true, Mirai has to sell the program. That spark, energy and fire she brought to the end of the program was electric. Imagine what it would have been like if she'd had that kind of connection from start to finish instead of just at the end. Performance can makes a big difference in the score and that's why Ashley outscored her in PCS. As horrible as Ashley was technically, she still sold her program much better than Mirai did.

As far as Elena winning by 30 points, I think a lot of that has to do with (a) Elena skating cleanly, (b) her high level content, (c) the way she sold her program, and (d) the fact that she's been trending upward since last season. Momentum is everything in this sport and it's definitely on Elena's side. She debuted very strongly on the GP last season, medaled at both events, 4th at the Final, won a second world junior title...and then followed that up with yet another very strong performance at JO. Consistently strong skating = higher scores.

Elena's landing posture doesn't bother me; Serafima's on the other hand does b/c she drops her chest almost to her knees when she lands. Elena doesn't land completely upright but it's not that noticeable to me...as a matter of fact I never noticed it until people started pointing it out at this competition. Elena has plenty things to work on (more reach in her movements, her shoulders, straighter landing position) and I'm happy that's the case. I'd be worried if she'd already reached her peak at 15 years old.

Satoko has been a favorite of mine for the last 3 years. With Mao and Akiko gone and Kanako not on top of her game, Satoko is finally coming into focus. She's more polished and more mature in her presentation than Elena is and her FS is my favorite in the field right now (absolutely gorgeous program and packaging). Satoko's problem has always been her impact. She doesn't skate big and, in a field of big jumpers and big personalities, that may hurt her...but I was happy to see her score so well here. Now that she's getting herself on the radar, if she follows it up with strong performances her scores should continue to rise as well.

 

[apgold]

Mirai is in the same boat as Ashley, Liza T and Alena. She is not on the judges' radar which means she has to put herself on the radar. To do that, she basically has zero room for error. Mirai has a reputation as a chronic under-rotator which means the judges/callers will give her no leeway/benefit of the doubt when it comes to her jumps. If it looks even close to UR, they're going to assume that it is b/c history has shown that this particular skater is known for URing jumps. It's up to her to fix that. Additionally, and I keep harping on this but it's b/c it's true, Mirai has to sell the program. That spark, energy and fire she brought to the end of the program was electric. Imagine what it would have been like if she'd had that kind of connection from start to finish instead of just at the end. Performance can makes a big difference in the score and that's why Ashley outscored her in PCS. As horrible as Ashley was technically, she still sold her program much better than Mirai did.

Can we send your notes to Tom Z? LOL I was happy to see Mirai's spark but she only does that when she's relieved the jumps are over and then she sells it b/c she's more relaxed during the last 30 seconds of her program.

Agreed with your notes on Satoko and Elena as well. The disparity between the tech scores of the top 2 and the bottom 2 were huge. Felt bad for Ashley, but I wished she hadn't left the K&C and hung around for her team. I guess they placed 2nd due to Patrick Chan's win?

 

[fallingsk8er]

Just watched the yout tube video of Mirai and I loved the improvement. Finally, a 7-triple program that is capable of winning. She is executing better than she has in years and seems to be enjoying the program. She even looks like she is in better shape physically. I didnt agree with the low scores because it was a very satisfying program. I gave her a 117. 3F+3T< and 3S<<< (w/fall). The other jumps were close but another skater would have gotten credit.

 

[FlattFan]

I'm really impressed by Satoko year after year. Her Miss Saigon LP just showed that this girl is a real deal. If you go and watch 16yo Yuna and this girl back to back, Yuna was skating like a 16yo and this girl is skating like Kostner last year.
I hope they will reward her correctly in PCS.

 

[Jammers]

I'm really impressed by Satoko year after year. Her Miss Saigon LP just showed that this girl is a real deal. If you go and watch 16yo Yuna and this girl back to back, Yuna was skating like a 16yo and this girl is skating like Kostner last year.
I hope they will reward her correctly in PCS.

Just watch Yuna's SP at Worlds in 2007. It blows away Sakato in every way including speed power and of course that huge 3flip 3toe which dwarfs Sakato's tiny jumps which barely get off the ice. As for her artistry even the critical Dick Button said Yuna was a very sophisticated young woman for only 16.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'm really impressed by Satoko year after year. Her Miss Saigon LP just showed that this girl is a real deal. If you go and watch 16yo Yuna and this girl back to back, Yuna was skating like a 16yo and this girl is skating like Kostner last year.
I hope they will reward her correctly in PCS.

Uh.... did you just say Miyahara was skating like Kostner (in Kostner's best season ever, at that)?

The Miss Saigon LP is a great improvement for Miyahara, but let's call a spade a spade here. She was very lucky with some of the rotation calls, and she does not carry the flow/speed of Kostner, the performance ability, and certainly not the height on her jumps.

I do think that with the abilities that Miyahara has, she's making the most of it. We can't really expect her to have huge jumps with her frame. Her performance abilities have improved but she is nowhere near the level of a top skater in terms of artistry.

 

[FlattFan]

Just watch Yuna's SP at Worlds in 2007. It blows away Sakato in every way including speed power and of course that huge 3flip 3toe which dwarfs Sakato's tiny jumps which barely get off the ice. As for her artistry even the critical Dick Button said Yuna was a very sophisticated young woman for only 16.

Yuna's jumping ability is unmatched by 99% of the girls out there.
I'm talking about the artistry, the transition, the connection to the music here. Dick hasn't seen Satoko. Satoko is the only girl competing now that has the artistic quality that Kostner had last year.

 

[b-man]

I'm really impressed by Satoko year after year. Her Miss Saigon LP just showed that this girl is a real deal. If you go and watch 16yo Yuna and this girl back to back, Yuna was skating like a 16yo and this girl is skating like Kostner last year.
I hope they will reward her correctly in PCS.

Haven't seen you post in awhile, glad to have you back.

 

[Miss Ice]

I appreciate your thoughtful post.

I really sympathized with Mirai when I saw the upset expression on her face when her scores came up. I know she fell, but overall I felt she had good posture in and out of her jumps, improved speed from what I had seen recently, and a really beautiful Ina Bauer and Biellmann to close out her program. To be honest, her Ina Bauer was my favorite move among all the women. I thought she was Shizuka for a moment. I will admit she still needed a little more speed and more intricate footwork in her step sequences. But, I do think her PCS score was too low and that she got too many ur calls.

I wasn't going to mention Elena, but since she has been talked about on a Mirai thread, here are my thoughts. First, I can understand Elena getting the highest score (though I think a case could also be made for Satoko), but not 30 points higher than Mirai. In my opinion, quite a few Russian female skaters are scored too high on GOE in jumps but not Elena Medevedeva, who I think overall has the most beautiful- though not the biggest jumps among the Russians- because of her better posture and smoother motion, which Wakaba also has plus wonderful height and great flow. I just can't get used to the hunching from the waist up after the jump is landed which seems most noticeable in Radinova and Sakhanovich because it breaks the flow, continuity and aesthetically pleasing quality of the skating for me, and I think it should be reflected much more in GOE,. It's an opinion that others have mentioned. I also don't see this is in Mirai and I certainly haven't seen it in Mao or Kim. I expect this kind of posture for scores that are as high (or higher) than Mao and Kim have received (136+). Finally, I realize it depends on a person's preference, but I can't get used to Elena's (or Yulia's) constantly busy hand gestures and the constant turning without drawing out the extensions out more slowly. elegantly and deliberately which I thought Mao was so wonderful at, but which I also see Elena Medvedeva and Satoko developing. Mirai also did a great job in the extensions near the end of her program. This is something she can build on.

In the Japan Open, I thought that Satoko had better posture out of her jumps than Elena, but her lack of height took away quite a bit from this advantage, but I did prefer Satoko's overall artistry. Elena did have good energy level and emotional spark. I think Elena's PCS advantage on Satoko may be based partially on her reputation as back to back World Junior Champion. I don't understand why Mirai's PCS are lower than Ashely's at all.[SUP][/SUP]

Beautiful post I agree 100%, I also think posture is incredibly important, and out of the JO ladies, I definitely liked Satoko's classic posture the most, even if her jumps are underwhelming. Mirai is definitely closest to that in terms of having a very stable, classic posture which gives skating a certain elegance and maturity. I don't understand why Mirai has lower PCS than Ashley either, Ashley's program was unfortunately very sloppy and there is no way she should have higher PCS (or technicals) than Mirai under a fair judging system.

I'm really impressed by Satoko year after year. Her Miss Saigon LP just showed that this girl is a real deal. If you go and watch 16yo Yuna and this girl back to back, Yuna was skating like a 16yo and this girl is skating like Kostner last year.
I hope they will reward her correctly in PCS.

I see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. Satoko's program was my favorite LP in JO (along with Mirai's), it was BEAUTIFUL, but there were moments where I wish she had accentuated the music a little more like Yu-Na did. I think both Satoko's and Yu-Na's interpretations are highly mature and brilliant, I wouldn't necessarily say one is higher in artistry than the other. Both are beautiful in their own way!

 

[StitchMonkey]

Beautiful post I agree 100%, I also think posture is incredibly important, and out of the JO ladies, I definitely liked Satoko's classic posture the most, even if her jumps are underwhelming. Mirai is definitely closest to that in terms of having a very stable, classic posture which gives skating a certain elegance and maturity. I don't understand why Mirai has lower PCS than Ashley either, Ashley's program was unfortunately very sloppy and there is no way she should have higher PCS (or technicals) than Mirai under a fair judging system.

I see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. Satoko's program was my favorite LP in JO (along with Mirai's), it was BEAUTIFUL, but there were moments where I wish she had accentuated the music a little more like Yu-Na did. I think both Satoko's and Yu-Na's interpretations are highly mature and brilliant, I wouldn't necessarily say one is higher in artistry than the other. Both are beautiful in their own way!

Mirai got a 55.89 PCS, a 55.88 would have given Ashley a total score of 97.7. I doubt they liked the idea of giving out a sub 100 score.

 

[Miss Ice]

Mirai got a 55.89 PCS, a 55.88 would have given Ashley a total score of 97.7. I doubt they liked the idea of giving out a sub 100 score.

How bout giving Mirai a higher PCS? Wasn't saying we should lower Ashley's.

Also, if someone deserves a sub-100 score, they should get it. Isn't this the way this sport worked back in the day?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

How bout giving Mirai a higher PCS? Wasn't saying we should lower Ashley's.

Also, if someone deserves a sub-100 score, they should get it. Isn't this the way this sport worked back in the day?

Sorry, but Mirai gets the PCS she deserves. The ladies that score higher have better programs and look interested for more than the final 30 seconds.

 

[FlattFan]

I see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. Satoko's program was my favorite LP in JO (along with Mirai's), it was BEAUTIFUL, but there were moments where I wish she had accentuated the music a little more like Yu-Na did. I think both Satoko's and Yu-Na's interpretations are highly mature and brilliant, I wouldn't necessarily say one is higher in artistry than the other. Both are beautiful in their own way!

Kim is really special. One of the best ever because her TES is so amazing and her artistry is also very strong.
Satoko is morphing into Kostner in the last quad. Look at her programs in the past 3 years, can you imagine anyone else that young can do those kind of programs? I don't think young Kim or young Asada or young Kostner had that kind of innate connection and interpretation.
It's too bad that her jumps aren't as explosive as Kim/Kostner or as ambitious as Asada because I think she's the future of this sport.