Yeah, well, I guess Scott thought that Mirai's gorgeous spins, superior spirals and electrifying performance was more than enough to beat Rachael, and so did a lot of other people. Besides, Scott did question Mirai's last triple while he was commentating.
Mirai's Triple Lutz Unfairly Downgraded?
- Thread starter gfskater
- Start date
Yeah, well, I guess Scott thought that Mirai's gorgeous spins, superior spirals and electrifying performance was more than enough to beat Rachael, and so did a lot of other people. Besides, Scott did question Mirai's last triple while he was commentating.
Yes, but if you get downgrades then your TES goes downhill. And rightfully so.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
How was Scott to know that Mirai and Rachael would be marked only one point apart on the pcs despite the beauty and excellence of so many of Mirai's elements?
Even a first time watcher could see this scoring did not reflect what happened on the ice. I know coz I had a few over to watch and they were laughing at the score. BTW, no chance of getting them to be a fan anytime soon.
I give Scott credit for calling it like he saw it.
That it goes downhill is certainly true. That it's rightfully so is up for debate in my book.
I don't blame Scott for not assuming that Mirai had three downgraded jumps. At least he was able to see one.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
And apparently they took Mirai's pcs down to rachael's level as well.
I am hoping one of the experts can explain how Rachael and Mirai were tied on the pcs?
As several published articles have already noted Mirai was not rewarded fairly for superior artistry.
Let's leave crooked judging out and admit that this is another very obvious and serious CoP flaw that needs to be adjusted.
Watching the programs it is incredible to me that on several elements Mira won by only hundredths of a point. And that posters have defended it by saying "Mirai dominated the pcs."
Sorry, winning by 1 lousy point on a scoring system that goes into the hundreds is not domination but it is ridiculous.
Given Mirai's history, Scott SHOULD have assumed that Mirai getting downgrades would be a big possibility. Did he watch Cup of China? Not to mention downgrades but also ! calls on her 3lutzs which add up.
Scott is welcome to think that the sport should ge scored differently. But as long as this sport is scored in a way where downgrades matter. He should make an effort to explain these type of things to the viewers.
While perhaps its not fair its not like Mirai gets significantly higher PCS than Rachael internationally..There is probably a point or two difference between the two. Mirai should have had PCS that were higher but Flatt deserved to win by TES. Period.
Last edited:
And so you made up a theory that fits one of the few facts you actually know about any of these people.
The elite skating world is small. They've had all kinds of opportunities for their paths to cross in 30 years. Some might suggest good feelings between them and some might suggest bad, most would probably be neutral. We as fans aren't privy to most of these interactions.
It might be fun to put together two connections between two of the players from 30 years apart and come up with a theory that connects them. But we have no way of knowing whether the individuals involved made any such connections themselves, since they have many more points of contact that they might associate with the other individual that we know nothing about.
All you're really doing is speculating playfully. If you just post in that vein, we can laugh along with you. It's when you post your silly speculation for fun as if it is anything more than silly speculation for fun that it becomes irresponsible. For example, statements such as "Well there were obviously a few agendas being played out."
The only skater in the top 4. There were plenty of strict calls against other skaters if you look at the whole protocol.
Cohen did get one edge alert in the long program.
The way the system is set up, it's a lot easier for tech panels to overlook errors that should have been called than to make downgrade or edge calls that weren't deserved.
So maybe they weren't quite as strict as they should have been with Flatt, Cohen, or Wagner.
Whether that's because of viewing angle or speed or distraction by other details of the skate or agendas in favor of certain skaters or their coaches, or that the jumps were in fact reviewed and deemed to have been executed acceptably, we have no way of knowing.
But no single member of the panel can enforce a call against a skater without agreement from at least one of the other two.
If you're going to make up theories, you need to include at least two of the three members of the panel. And unless you have more to go on than your own imagination, then you need to clearly label your posts as silly fun and not serious accusations.
I disagree. If Scott can't see an UR from where he is sitting he should not call it to the viewers just because Mirai had URs at COC.
Was he looking for it. I don't think we had a good angle to see the underrotations on the NBC feed. And seriously one downgraded triple toe (even Scott saw) two ! on lutzs everyone knows Mirai's getting and well that all adds up to quite a few points that help Rachael beat Mirai-even if Mirai got better Pcs.
Scott even said it he was too caught up in the story to look for things like downgrades. You know those pesky technical elements that lead to a skaters scores.
Maybe he should have said something at the end of Mirai's skate like "well that was amazing but we'll have to see if she had any URs." But if a tech caller has a hard time decided even scrutinizing a replay, than I don't think it's fair to blame Scott for not noticing it while it's live. Proof that he was looking for it was that he did question one of her jumps. Scott also questioned a lot of Sasha's jumps in the SP, including some that she ended up getting a break on. I think he was definitely looking for it. Give him a break.
You seem to have an axe to grind.
Remember, all season long, Rachael's PCS is actually higher than Mirai's.
Also, please stop the conspiracy theory. Mirai was dinged with UR and flutz every single competitions she was in. So that must be Frank's former student beating those tech specialists once upon a time?
All of the experts have scored Rachael's PCS to be higher than Mirai's. PCS is not performance.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Absolutely many of my posts are meant to be "silly fun."
What did you think they were meant to be?
I do get aroused when I think less than fair play is involved.
I enjoy your posts and appreciate that you are willing to share so much knowledge here.
I also was glad to read this comment of yours:
"So maybe they weren't quite as strict as they should have been with Flatt, Cohen, or Wagner."
Thankyou for that.
I will consider your comments and try to tone it down.
But it is not necessarily a 'theory" that 1980 was disputed and there was talk of bad blood. More than that i don't know about.
I do know Carroll was angry about some of the calls against Mirai.
Last edited:
But Scott mentioned Rachael's true lutz during the competition. Why didn't he comment on Mirai's flutz? He didn't say anything during the SP, didn't say anything during the LP. She has a history of that and it wasn't even mentioned.
I think he's part of the reason why people at home scratch their head.
It's his job to bring up these facts for people who might not know better.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
I'm just confused because both of Rachael's 3f-3t were slightly cheated, about the same amount as Mirai's were, and she did't get UR calls and Mirai did.
The other thing is that Sasha and Ashley 2-footed a number of jumps, which is normally a clear indicator that the jump is UR, and didn't get UR calls.
It seems like Alissa and Mirai are always called out for URs when everyone else's jumps look about the same.
One final thing, Mirai hasn't gotten any URs in her SP this season, but has gotten URs in all of her LP (though at SC it was just on doubles, not triples). If she can rotate them in the SP might it mean that her URs in the LP are due to stamina? If so, that should be easier to fix. Frank already said they reworked Mirai's technique almost entirely after she grew so much. I just hate how this system seems to be unfair.
The other thing is that Sasha and Ashley 2-footed a number of jumps, which is normally a clear indicator that the jump is UR, and didn't get UR calls.
It seems like Alissa and Mirai are always called out for URs when everyone else's jumps look about the same.
One final thing, Mirai hasn't gotten any URs in her SP this season, but has gotten URs in all of her LP (though at SC it was just on doubles, not triples). If she can rotate them in the SP might it mean that her URs in the LP are due to stamina? If so, that should be easier to fix. Frank already said they reworked Mirai's technique almost entirely after she grew so much. I just hate how this system seems to be unfair.
It's probably a combination of stamina and bad technique. Her first flutz is never UR in short or long.
If the tech specialists are equally picky, Mirai's flip would be downgraded, Rachael's 3toe would be downgraded and Rachael would still win. Mirai would stay home.
I would imagine that could be an issue -- the downgrades were mostly on jumps later in the program.
Or the triple toe at the back end of a combination, which is harder to pull off.
Well, I always thought that Mirai and Alissa, most especially Alissa, both needed to blow everyone out of the water at nationals to overcome any skepticism about their ability to compete, given their previous season. I'm not surprised if their skating was more carefully scrutinized than others. I am so in awe of Mirai for rising to the occasion. I love the little coy smile she gave when she skated onto the ice and raised her arms up before the LP. As if to say, "Oh so you think I'm going to crumble under pressure? Watch this!" And I'm so heartbroken that Alissa couldn't do the same. They were my two favorite skaters coming into the event, not counting Sasha.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
If she just changes that 2a-3t to a 3t-2a sequence that should get rid of that problem. And then if she can land all 6 triples, one downgrade shouldn't hurt her too much, what she really needs to avoid is getting 2 or more downgrades on triples because then she"ll be like Alissa and never manage a really competitive LP score in CoP. The nerves could have also been affecting her Saturday, normally the 3t is a very strong jump for her.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Where is Skatingpunk?? We need one of their hilarious stories on this 30 year old grudge that had a former skater tinkering with the results by going after her former competitor's coach's student
