Navka skips doping test in Europeans, N/K's Turino trip in jeopardy
- Thread starter rjulie510
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- Jun 3, 2005
Could you imagine the pressure their disqualification would put on Domnina/Shabalin and Kohklova/Novitski? Russia has had three spots for the Worlds/Olys for quite some time now, so I couldn't see the Russian Federation reacting well to these two failing to produce such a finish.
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- Jul 27, 2003
That she didn't get sutures until the next day is strange, IMO especially since she wouldn't take time to give the speciman. Come on, peeing in a cup is not that difficult. This gal can turn herself into a pretzel on ice. I'm sure she could have managed to hold the cup with her other hand. Folks much less coordinated and way more injured do it in the ER every day.
Ladskater said:
Dick Pound, president of WADA, who is monitoring the ISU's investigation is Canadian. He is also the guy who, as a VP for the IOC, wanted to kick ice dance out of the Olys after the "block judging"/Balkov tape mess in 1998. Canada hasn't been dragged into this mess yet, but IMO, if N/K do get suspended -- Canada probably will be.
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- Sep 10, 2005
I wouldn't say peeing a cup on command is EASY (I have extensive experience with both types of sampling--not for drugs, though I do have to have a drug test for my new job-and I would a million times rather have them draw blood; I can almost never produce a urine sample for doctors unless I drink so much fluid I'm physically uncomfortable and bloated, while it usually takes only one try to raise a vein) but if she didn't even get the stitches in 'til the next day...I mean, I've had some long emergency room waits but that one would take the cake!
I don't know if anything underhanded is going on, but unless there was a major blood vessel severed, they should have let her wrap the hand and assisted her in getting her dress off for the urine test. They don't kid around about drug tests.
I don't know if anything underhanded is going on, but unless there was a major blood vessel severed, they should have let her wrap the hand and assisted her in getting her dress off for the urine test. They don't kid around about drug tests.
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- Jul 31, 2003
Evdokia said:I'd like to know what that doctor cited would call an "absolute emergency" - if one has cut his head off? Navka was obviousely bleeding heavily (if you watched Zhulin in the K&C he care more for her hand, than for the marks), and a hand is an important body part for ice dancers (and one difficult to treat with all the nerves & tendons in there). - With Kostomarov making the test, I can see that first aid was more important for Navka then the drug test. :think:
I don't understand all the drama which is made about this now?
If my hand was bleeding heavily, I would consider that an absolute emergency, regardless of what the doctor says. Doctors are used to seeing the worst possible cases and would not consider a bleeding hand that serious but to the person with the injury this could mean a lot. A wound that requires nine stiches cannot be a minor wound. It sounds like Kostomarov went through the test (or didn't he?). I hope this will not jeopardize their chances for the Olympics. The antidoping rules are strict but they need to use some common sense. If N&K are not allowed to compete in the Olympics, it will be tragic (I think Belbin & Agosto fans may not feel that way).
Vash
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- Jul 31, 2003
attyfan said:
I think Canada would LOVE to get involved and suspend N&K so that Canadian born Belbin can win the gold. Don't get me wrong; I like Belbin-Agosto very much, but I don't want them to win the gold in this manner. I would rather see them skate better than N&K to win it.
Vash
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- Jul 31, 2003
julietvalcouer said:
It is particularly hard to pee on command when you are stressed out, and Navka obviously was, with the bleeding hand. I still find it astonishing that she /her team took such a big risk, knowing how strict the ISU is about doping rules.
Vash
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- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Think about it. Team N&K know the rules. She's a grown woman who has gone through childbirth and she is well aware that an OGM is at stake here. What was she thinking? Obviously she wasn't injured much if the medical advisor who spoke with her didn't even examine her hand and she didn't bother to have it sutured until the next day. Maybe she forgot to bring her Blue Cross card?
What a strange rule that only one member of the ice dance team has to be tested. That makes no sense to me. Is it the same with pairs?
What a strange rule that only one member of the ice dance team has to be tested. That makes no sense to me. Is it the same with pairs?
Waiting for the stitches doesn't sound that outrageous to me. Setting bone breaks and stitching up wounds are often put on hold until a specialist can be called in to examine the patient.
Besides, the Russian team has a team doctor, who undoubtedly examined her before then.
Much ado about nothing, really.
And Kyoko Ina didn't "refuse" a test. She said she was tired and all ready for bed when the doping people showed up at her home and demanded a urine test. I don't know about you, but I generally have already gone to the bathroom before I go to bed. And most people avoid drinking lots of fluids later in the day so they won't have to get up and go in the middle of the night. Was she supposed to drink lots and then wait so they could get a sample? She was more than willing to do it the next day and I don't see how that would have hurt in either Kyoko's or Tatiana's case.
Besides, the Russian team has a team doctor, who undoubtedly examined her before then.
Much ado about nothing, really.
And Kyoko Ina didn't "refuse" a test. She said she was tired and all ready for bed when the doping people showed up at her home and demanded a urine test. I don't know about you, but I generally have already gone to the bathroom before I go to bed. And most people avoid drinking lots of fluids later in the day so they won't have to get up and go in the middle of the night. Was she supposed to drink lots and then wait so they could get a sample? She was more than willing to do it the next day and I don't see how that would have hurt in either Kyoko's or Tatiana's case.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I tend to think that she was in extreme pain and perhaps physical shock. It would have been reasonable for her to worry about infection, too. It isn't clear from any of the articles whether her hand was treated with an alternate method that night, and then she was given sutures the next day.
Piel said:
Yes, the same case with pairs.
My thoughts of the N/K situation (also checking my reading comprehension
):1. The article is based on hearsays (and who's the doping chaperone, btw?) - not a single comment from a ISU official.
2. The story is only in L'Equipe - no mentioning in any other paper (Globe and Mail citing L'Equipe). And not a single word in the Russian media - I searched for the news today.
3. It's not said she didn't go to the doping test later.
4. I believe the cut could be pretty bad - she had to hold the blade with a cut hand for a few seconds (for the lift to be ratified) and it is strain for the hand. And I'm not surprised if she was concerned about it.
5. It's hard to believe Navka and Zhulin (both with YEARS of competitive career) were ignorant of the rules and were willing to put participation in the Olys to jeopardy.
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- Mar 22, 2004
Part of the problem is that anti-doping officials have developed a taste for power and wield it in ways that go way beyond reasonable concerns.
First, is doping a problem in skating? This isn't running or cycling where rapid body change and increased muscle mass is going to help, it's based on minute body control and memory and split second timing and the kinds of bursts that come from most doping is going to backfire against most/all skaters.
Second. Let's have some rationality and proportion, the Romanian gymnast case has permanently spoiled me for gymnastics (another technique sport). I haven't watched any since then. The Kyoko Ina case is also infuriating unless you're in favor of petty bureaucrats bossing people around.
Third. A bleeding injury should take precedence over a piss test, that's simple human decency, a quality the anti-doping fanatics seem to be losing.
First, is doping a problem in skating? This isn't running or cycling where rapid body change and increased muscle mass is going to help, it's based on minute body control and memory and split second timing and the kinds of bursts that come from most doping is going to backfire against most/all skaters.
Second. Let's have some rationality and proportion, the Romanian gymnast case has permanently spoiled me for gymnastics (another technique sport). I haven't watched any since then. The Kyoko Ina case is also infuriating unless you're in favor of petty bureaucrats bossing people around.
Third. A bleeding injury should take precedence over a piss test, that's simple human decency, a quality the anti-doping fanatics seem to be losing.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Good comment. I remember a time when I was a bit tipsy, if fell down a few stairs. My wound was bloody extensive. I called a friend who washed the wound and bandaged it for the night. Next day, I was still oozing blood. I went to the clinic and was told it is too late to get stitches and again the wound was cleansed and rebandaged. It was ok after a few days with an interesting scar over the left eye.Jhar55 said:The article said she didn't have stitches until the next day.
Just another chapter in As The Ice Melts..
Maybe Navka (like me) didn't know stitches should be done right away.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
According to Tarasova, drugs can increase muscle memory to enable athlete to learn a new element much sooner. She says that's why it's so important to test not just after the competition, but during regular practices as well. In fact, she mentioned in one interview that she'd like to see testing done after SP as well as FS.Mafke said:
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- Aug 18, 2003
I am completely confused by the whole thing!
Navka was injured and nine stitches is not a minor wound in anyones book, particularly for a hand wound where tendons are much more exposed and the chances of losing the use of either the whole hand or some of the fingers is quite real if not treated in time. So I for one have no problem with her going to hospital to get that dealt with as a matter of priority. It may well have been a minor injury for the doctor who dealt with it, but Navka is not a doctor and would not have known this.
Missing a dope test is a serious offence and one which should be taken seriously, but if only one of the couple has to give a sample do they do a random draw between Tatiana and Roman? I am assuming so and that appears to be the impression given by the article. If this is the case then fine but if it was so necessary that it was Tatiana that submitted a sample then why did an official not accompany her to the hospital and have her provide the sample there while she waited for treatment? If, as seems to be the case, it doesn't really matter which of the two provides the sample and Tatiana is clearly in need of treatment then I don't see why there wasn't a degree of compassion. It's not like when Rio Ferdinand skipped a dope test to go shopping with his wife.
Also what is the deal with the signatures? I am confused by that! If Tatiana's hand was that badly injured that she couldn't sign the papers properly then where does that leave the legalities of the dope test and the argument that she skipped the dope tests?
On the face of it I think a little bit of compassion and flexibility given the circumstances of the missed test might be appropriate, however given the degree of grey details in the article, I may well be wrong.
Navka was injured and nine stitches is not a minor wound in anyones book, particularly for a hand wound where tendons are much more exposed and the chances of losing the use of either the whole hand or some of the fingers is quite real if not treated in time. So I for one have no problem with her going to hospital to get that dealt with as a matter of priority. It may well have been a minor injury for the doctor who dealt with it, but Navka is not a doctor and would not have known this.
Missing a dope test is a serious offence and one which should be taken seriously, but if only one of the couple has to give a sample do they do a random draw between Tatiana and Roman? I am assuming so and that appears to be the impression given by the article. If this is the case then fine but if it was so necessary that it was Tatiana that submitted a sample then why did an official not accompany her to the hospital and have her provide the sample there while she waited for treatment? If, as seems to be the case, it doesn't really matter which of the two provides the sample and Tatiana is clearly in need of treatment then I don't see why there wasn't a degree of compassion. It's not like when Rio Ferdinand skipped a dope test to go shopping with his wife.
Also what is the deal with the signatures? I am confused by that! If Tatiana's hand was that badly injured that she couldn't sign the papers properly then where does that leave the legalities of the dope test and the argument that she skipped the dope tests?
On the face of it I think a little bit of compassion and flexibility given the circumstances of the missed test might be appropriate, however given the degree of grey details in the article, I may well be wrong.
:chorus: