NBC Proposal To Split U.S. Nationals Coverage Over Two Weekends

[Tonichelle]

The other (more feasible, but more risky) option is to air coverage throughout the week. If they want more prime time coverage, why not give up Friday night as well? I think most people consider that "the weekend". Three nights- Fri-Sat-Sun. Or two days and two nights (Fri-night to Sun-afternoon) plus an hour or two of Sun-night coverage. Maybe I'm just a skeptic (heh) but I think this two-weekend thing might backfire. I don't think it will make that big of a difference in ratings, and attendance will really suffer.

That's a good point/idea to bring up Friday night - I'm not up to date on what NBC has for friday nights during the Fall/Winter seasons... I just know that there is NOTHING worth watching on Friday nights on any network, cable or not!

Ice Wars used to be two nights on CBS with the technical on Friday and the artistic on Saturday.... but those were the good ol days of skating

 

[R.D.]

IIRC, the men's final at US nationals brought in more people at the arena AND had the higher ratings for NBC... times are changing...

actually the ladies was a 3.8 and the men's a 3.4, I believe.

That's a good point/idea to bring up Friday night - I'm not up to date on what NBC has for friday nights during the Fall/Winter seasons... I just know that there is NOTHING worth watching on Friday nights on any network, cable or not!

Ice Wars used to be two nights on CBS with the technical on Friday and the artistic on Saturday.... but those were the good ol days of skating

Here's a proposed NBC schedule: In 2010, have the Senior Championships run Thursday through Sunday. Show taped coverage of portions of the competition on Friday night. Then on the weekend, show live coverage of all the finals, plus the exhibition gala (optional).

So:


Friday Night: Short Programs, Pairs FS LIVE (last group)

Saturday Afternoon: Free Dance LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sat. Night: Ladies FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sun. Night: Men FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Next Saturday Afternoon: Exhibition Gala

This way, you get your Prime Time coverage in, as well as the opportunity to promote three consecutive nights of skating in preparation for the Olympic Games. The primetime coverage does not even have to take up the entire night if they need to show something else (I think 2 groups skating would require 2 hours of coverage).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

IIRC, the men's final at US nationals brought in more people at the arena AND had the higher ratings for NBC... times are changing...

However the Worlds was ABC's swan song. NBC had nothing to do with it. The Mens division on the last night had everything to do with the hometown boys.

I believe NBC has agreed to do the 2009 Worlds. They may have trouble changing things without the ISU approval. As for the Nats, they have been doing what ABC was doing all along. Ladies will get the prime time What else - we'll see. I don't believe they are interested in the GPs. Maybe token coverage of SA.

There is a lot we lost with ABC/ESPN going out. And now attendance at the championships are threatened with the split weekend coverage. Not too bad for TV viewers who may even get Mens live on one weekend, but that would need a big change.

How can I get Eurosport in NYC?

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I think if NBC wants to do 2009 worlds, they'll attempt to work out any scheduling issues before they sign a TV deal.

Seems like they had coverage of 1992 Worlds- I saw the logo on the boards looking through an old photo archive. Was that the lone worlds that they televised?

 

[MFarone]

NBC coverage

Tonichelle I have no idea what the actual ratings were for Mens and Ladies finals but remember that NBC wanted the Men FS on Sunday so it could be shown live. Then the writer's strike happened! NBC ended up taping the Sunday afternoon coverage of the Mens FS and showing it on tape during prime time!

I'm really not crazy about the schedule that was used in St. Paul. Saturday was appalling long if you wanted to see all the skating. Probably I can live with this better than actually splitting senior events into two weekends as proposed for 2010. Guess whatever NBC wants it will get - I hope it helps FS in the long run.

Maureen

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think if NBC wants to do 2009 worlds, they'll attempt to work out any scheduling issues before they sign a TV deal.

Seems like they had coverage of 1992 Worlds- I saw the logo on the boards looking through an old photo archive. Was that the lone worlds that they televised?

But splitting up the divisions as the goal? on certain weekends? and what will they show on TV? Other than 6-10 Ladies LP only on one Sunday(?) afternoon. I do not think Short Programs will be shown unless they come up with an affiliate.

More than a let's see here.

joe

 

[Tonichelle]

However the Worlds was ABC's swan song. NBC had nothing to do with it. The Mens division on the last night had everything to do with the hometown boys.Joe

Joe, I never said anything about Worlds. If you will recall, the MEN closed out US nationals this year... Evan and Johnny's tie was on Sunday... and that evening the exhibitions happened... the ladies and dance were on Saturday...

I'm well aware of which network had which skating event... and as Red Dog was able to point out - ladies still beat out the men in ratings... but not by much... and NBC did seem to promote the ladies more than the guys... which was dumb because the men were way more exciting.

Seems like they had coverage of 1992 Worlds- I saw the logo on the boards looking through an old photo archive. Was that the lone worlds that they televised? "

]

No, they had 93 and 94 as well... and I think 95 (the year Kurt got himself in trouble for calling a teen Kwan sexy... or was that 94...)

 

[gkelly]

Friday Night: Short Programs, Pairs FS LIVE (last group)

Saturday Afternoon: Free Dance LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sat. Night: Ladies FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sun. Night: Men FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Next Saturday Afternoon: Exhibition Gala

When could the exhibition gala even be held, if the men's event takes place Sunday night?

Maybe they could hold Nationals in Hawaii. That way the last competion could take place on Sunday afternoon local time and it could be broadcast live Sunday evening in the east. And then after all the TV viewers go to bed it would still be evening and time to hold an exhibition at the competition venue.

Of course that would mean everyone involved in Sunday's event and in the exhibitions would have to stay in town until Monday and might be jetlagged on Tuesday.

 

[merrybari]

Here's a proposed NBC schedule: In 2010, have the Senior Championships run Thursday through Sunday. Show taped coverage of portions of the competition on Friday night. Then on the weekend, show live coverage of all the finals, plus the exhibition gala (optional).

So:


Friday Night: Short Programs, Pairs FS LIVE (last group)

Saturday Afternoon: Free Dance LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sat. Night: Ladies FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sun. Night: Men FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Next Saturday Afternoon: Exhibition Gala

This way, you get your Prime Time coverage in, as well as the opportunity to promote three consecutive nights of skating in preparation for the Olympic Games. The primetime coverage does not even have to take up the entire night if they need to show something else (I think 2 groups skating would require 2 hours of coverage).

This has possibilities. I like keeping all the championship events together on the same weekend as the gala. For Nationals this year I did go a bit early and bought an individual ticket for the men's short program.

BTW: with all this discussion going on I've kind of lost track of which is real and which is still in discussion. Has anyone seen the actual plan for 2009 US Nationals and/or Worlds or is all of this still in the proposal stages?

Guess we won't know until it happens.

I can understand that NBC wants to split the schedule if they want to show the events live in the hopes of attracting more viewers and more $$ from advertising. It probably even makes sense that USFSA would go along with this because they are trying to stop the slide that figure skating is in right now. It pains me as a spectator because I would need to be at Nationals for so many days in order to see pairs/dance/ladies/men. How to get that much time off work?? How to be able to afford that many days in a hotel??

Joe - as far as Cleveland is concerned I was told that they are going to follow the same type of schedule as St. Paul. The senior ladies would be split between morning and evening on Saturday. The men would finish on Sunday and then the exhibition would follow that. I asked various people at the Cleveland booth and they all said the same thing....of course that could always change. I wasn't really happy with having the ladies split into 2 groups but I really think that will happen again. The Cleveland Cavaliers have been a really hot team and I'm not sure that Quicken Loans would be available if NBC wanted to run Nationals out 12 or 13 days.

I do think that 2010 (where ever it is) will probably go along the lines of mens/pairs Wed. thru Sunday and then novice and junior events in the middle of the week. Ladies and dance would probably run Thursday thru Sunday. Don't know if the mens/pairs would have a separate exhibition or be expected to wait around all week.

Hope to see someone in Cleveland besides myself!

Maureen

This line of thinking seems to make sense for 2009. Why fix it if it isn't broken? and that plan seems to have worked well and boosted ratings the final weekend! For 2010, I think IIRC they are trying to pattern after the Olympics. The trick will be the added expense of the extended format.

1) Can they get a venue that will commit to it?
2) Where will the $ come from to pay the extra rentals and other associated costs - for sites AND personnel?
3) What will the "early" skaters do about the EX. Who will pay their expenses while they wait around for it?
4) Will fans be able to afford the extra days off work, hotel - and accompanying meals etc. to be able to sit in the seats?
5) Will they have TWO championship weekend packages instead of one?

I'm sure there are things to consider that I've overlooked. In the end it seems to come down to the $$, and there are fewer and fewer resources pumping $$ into skating events as it is with TV revenues down and Cinquanta (sp) willing to GIVE the rights to 2009 Worlds away to get US coverage.

They have lots to think about.

I guess we, the fans, and the skaters will have to wait to see which way a capricious ISU - and media - wind blows!

Regardless, I plan to be in Cleveland!! Somehow, someway! So there will be at least two of us. !!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Here's a proposed NBC schedule: In 2010, have the Senior Championships run Thursday through Sunday. Show taped coverage of portions of the competition on Friday night. Then on the weekend, show live coverage of all the finals, plus the exhibition gala (optional).

So:


Friday Night: Short Programs, Pairs FS LIVE (last group)

Saturday Afternoon: Free Dance LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sat. Night: Ladies FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Sun. Night: Men FS LIVE (last 2 groups)

Next Saturday Afternoon: Exhibition Gala

This way, you get your Prime Time coverage in, as well as the opportunity to promote three consecutive nights of skating in preparation for the Olympic Games. The primetime coverage does not even have to take up the entire night if they need to show something else (I think 2 groups skating would require 2 hours of coverage).

Is this on the table at NBC? or is it wishful thinking?

IIRC, the men's final at US nationals brought in more people at the arena AND had the higher ratings for NBC... times are changing...

Toni -You don't think Johnny v. Evan had anything to do with it? This was fans of figure skating - not just fans of ladies figure skating. Finally, the Men outstripped the Ladies!

Joe

Merriberry - I will go to Cleveland for the old formula, and I don't care about whether the Ladies or the Men's Events are on NBC Sunday night. I'm a fan of figure skating not just one Division and I don't take heed about one Division opinions. For me, it's about the whole sport.

"This line of thinking seems to make sense for 2009. Why fix it if it isn't broken? and that plan seems to have worked well and boosted ratings the final weekend! For 2010, I think IIRC they are trying to pattern after the Olympics. The trick will be the added expense of the extended format."

Exactly! The Olympics pattern makes sense for the Olympics with so much active other sports going on. This is only one sport. Maybe someone can find out at NBC, why they are fixing something that is not broken. It's not for the fans, but for the $$$.

As to packed arenas. Trust me, Spokane was packed every night and not just for the Ladies. In fact Juniors had more crowds than ever before. As for TV ratings: we have the numbers for St.Paul, but do we compare it with numbers from Spokane? or is it just a blanket statement?

Why worry about the Schedule? If it's all there, one adjusts. If not, worry!

I predict, Cleveland, if it stays with the tried and true, will have packed houses. For the TV ratings (I honestly don't care), we'll see.

Joe

 

[merrybari]

Joe,

I'll be in Cleveland whatever format is decided. The question is for how long? Whatever - I'll adjust!

I agree - in the end it's about the sport.

 

[visaliakid]

I predict, Cleveland, if it stays with the tried and true, will have packed houses. For the TV ratings (I honestly don't care), we'll see.

Joe

Well as a fan that hopes for continued and (over time) increased televising of the sport on U.S. television, I care very much about the ratings, and so does NBC, potential sponsors, and U.S. Figure Skating. Most importantly, whether they even think about it, so do the skaters as well.

NBC should consider the views of all involved in the sport, fans included. However, as we offer our opinions here and on other forums it is good to keep in mind one truth: Good ratings = increased sponsorship = increased revenue for all involved in presentation of the sport. The amount of money generated from an increased level of sponsorship far outstrips the revenue taken in from warm bodies in the arena. This truth is the premise that will drive all decisions by NBC and U.S. Figure Skating.

Another truth is that the great majority of skating fans do not travel to many competitions as they cannot afford the time, or money required to attend, and they will watch the event on TV or internet. I am of this non-traveling segment of skating fandom, and don't want to see skating disappear from the tube. So for me, I care less about on-site attendance; I want continued TV presentation and good ratings.

 

[Tonichelle]

Toni -You don't think Johnny v. Evan had anything to do with it? This was fans of figure skating - not just fans of ladies figure skating. Finally, the Men outstripped the Ladies!

Joe - you're quoting my reply to your comment about ladies figure skating 'always' being the safe bet for 'non-fans' watching on TV. I am not ignoring the rivalry or forgetting it. I was merely pointing out that NBC changed it up this season.


I do believe that Evan and Johnny's rivalry has propelled men's skating as far as ratings go - but I don't think that they are the only reason. The ladies just aren't bringing the same sort of excitement that the Kwan vs Tara/Sarah/Sasha did... or before that the Nancy v Tonya or Kristi v Nancy v Kristi... it's kinda hard to get behind the top ladies when they can't represent the country at the world championships because they're too young.

The media has always pushed ladies skating as the 'big deal' but NBC took a risk and had the men go last... and even though ladies still got the higher ratings, I think they made a good step forward (who knows maybe Dick and Scott were in the producers' ears telling them to give the men their due!)

This year it was all about the guys, they were the ones that were on the ball... we had a major meltdown in the ladies, plus lack luster performances from some of the others... the men were a nail biter (I bit down on my knuckles so hard I bled lol) it makes for better tv, and all of the costumes were understated so it was easier for the general population of viewers to watch and not roll their eyes at the sequins.

 

[merrybari]

Well as a fan that hopes for continued and (over time) increased televising of the sport on U.S. television, I care very much about the ratings, and so does NBC, potential sponsors, and U.S. Figure Skating. Most importantly, whether they even think about it, so do the skaters as well.

NBC should consider the views of all involved in the sport, fans included. However, as we offer our opinions here and on other forums it is good to keep in mind one truth: Good ratings = increased sponsorship = increased revenue for all involved in presentation of the sport. The amount of money generated from an increased level of sponsorship far outstrips the revenue taken in from warm bodies in the arena. This truth is the premise that will drive all decisions by NBC and U.S. Figure Skating.

Another truth is that the great majority of skating fans do not travel to many competitions as they cannot afford the time, or money required to attend, and they will watch the event on TV or internet. I am of this non-traveling segment of skating fandom, and don't want to see skating disappear from the tube. So for me, I care less about on-site attendance; I want continued TV presentation and good ratings.

Points well taken. I used to be a stay-at-home, too and will be again someday I'm sure. The very idea of no TV coverage makes me ill. I'm already missing the GP series past SA as so far as I know there is no deal with anyone to pick up where ABC/ESPN left off. NBC coverage of Sakte America last year was laughable - hope they do better this time.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well as a fan that hopes for continued and (over time) increased televising of the sport on U.S. television, I care very much about the ratings, and so does NBC, potential sponsors, and U.S. Figure Skating. Most importantly, whether they even think about it, so do the skaters as well.

We know NBC has no intention of doing GPs other than SA. I don't think NBC sees any sponsors interested in lesser competitions, and if there is sponsor interest in 2010 Nats and Worlds, all the more reason for not taking on the GPs.

NBC should consider the views of all involved in the sport, fans included. .

I'm sure they have consdered all the views and realized that GPs do not get high ratings. That's what market research is all about.

Another truth is that the great majority of skating fans do not travel to many competitions as they cannot afford the time, or money required to attend, and they will watch the event on TV or internet. I am of this non-traveling segment of skating fandom, and don't want to see skating disappear from the tube. So for me, I care less about on-site attendance; I want continued TV presentation and good ratings.

It's certainly better to get Free competitions, then paying big bucks to see it in an arena. If you read the threads and get hooked up to China TV, Eurosport and I believe Japan TV, you can see all the skating (not US Nats) but you have to pay for the hookup like in IceNetwork. or for installing new doohickies for your TV set.
It's a question of pay or not to pay. NBC will bring in some Nats and we have to wait and see what for 2009 Worlds. None of it, of course, will be complete. If you are satisfied with some coverage, you will do fine. Those who prefer on site competitions will have to decide if it is worth all that extra money in addition to all the higher ticket prices and air fares

The on site fans are the ones who are hurting. Will it bring on a decrease in patronage at the box office?, and how will that look over the TV with empty seats? Will it hurt the sponsors of TV if it is playing to empty seats?.

Most nonAmerian fans have better TV coverage so they too, can decide whether to come or not. What does the Stadium play in this? So much money is wrapped up in this change. I hope to watch it Live on IceNetwork and that they show Novice and Junior as well.

Joe

 

[merrybari]

For me, I'd rather on site, then live on TV, if not live then taped, if not TV then internet - live then on demand! after that videos. In the end, all I care about is seeing it somehow. Will do what is necessary and feasible depending on time, $ and circumstance and be grateful. We have so many more choices now than ever before. It boggles the mind.

You're right - the ultimate choice is up to the fan and how much we're willing to do to get what we want.

 

[Tonichelle]

The on site fans are the ones who are hurting. Will it bring on a decrease in patronage at the box office?, and how will that look over the TV with empty seats? Will it hurt the sponsors of TV if it is playing to empty seats?.

it will be hard for later venues to get local sponsership

I don't think it will hurt TV commercial sponsorship so long as the ratings are good.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

it will be hard for later venues to get local sponsership

I'm a bit fogged out on this NBC. What are later venues? Surely, NBC has a game plan so we can stop speculating.

I don't think it will hurt TV commercial sponsorship so long as the ratings are good.

We have to wait for the ratings. Commercial sponsorship is part of the Network's duties to get. They are in touch with all the companies who want publicity. All State, Campbells, Marshalls, that Low Calorie prepared dinners probably wont want to come back. NBC, may have some others up its sleeve. Again, we'll see.

The two weekend change for Nats will be intersting for the home viewers. We can't judge by the tape of Skate America because it was pretty bad last year, I wonder how they plan the Worlds and how well it is received by the Natons of the Worlds? I don't think they will want a two week change for their individual TV programming. What do they care if Americans are interested in or disinterested in figure skating. Those countries love it.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

later venues = arenas for the next years of nationals... each year that attendance goes down, it's going to be harder and harder to sell local sponsers on the event. - has nothing to to with TV



as for ratings, presuming that attendance in the arena will be down means that more people will be watching at home via internet and television. PRESUMING that's the case, the raitings for the even will PROBABLY go up because those that would normally be at Nationals will be stuck at home.

I don't see Worlds being as big of a problem, and I doubt highly that NBC plans to do a two week thing for that. Nationals is the only one that they can really get away with the two weekends deal, and it makes sense because they're not having to deal with Wednesday-Sunday events that way. Worlds goes quicker than nationals because you just have the 4 senior events where as nationals still has Juniors going on when they start the senior events and so it takes a bit longer to fit everyone in.

Worlds also happens during sweeps in March.. and while CBS and ESPN and TNT have the basketball stuff, NBC will have Worlds, which is in the US next year, so I guess they're hoping that will boost ratings a bit.

as I said as long as TV ratings are good the sponsors will stick around no matter how empty the seats are in the arena. which is what your question was that I was answering in my last post.

yes I'm just giving my opinion, but this is what I'm studying in school and I can't think the stuff they teach is totally bogus.

 

[gkelly]

I don't see Worlds being as big of a problem, and I doubt highly that NBC plans to do a two week thing for that.

Do they even have a contract with the ISU at all? Only for 2009 maybe? I don't remember.

Worlds goes quicker than nationals because you just have the 4 senior events where as nationals still has Juniors going on when they start the senior events and so it takes a bit longer to fit everyone in.

Nationals also has novice events.

At least Worlds doesn't have the qual rounds any more. But they can have about 50 ladies' short programs, or 30 ODs. Nationals will have fewer than half that many seniors.