New Hersh Article- says Kwan probably won't be at December event

[R.D.]

How is Sasha's program better? Is it the intense front-loading? The weak, shallow edges? The tortise-like pace at which she crawls across the ice? Or is it the generic "play any music and I can use the same program" choreography? Take away her flexibility, and Cohen has NOTHING. At least Irina looks alive out there.

ITA. There's just no comparison.

 

[R.D.]

For me, Michelle's rivalry with Irina has been replaced with Sasha. It's the old debate of Irina's Technical v. Sasha's Performance. While I believe Sasha will outperform Irina, I can not see that would be enough to overtake the powerful Technical of Irina. If she gets the confidence she needs, Shizuka has the best shot for gold in Torino.

Even some of the Sasha fans are beginning to doubt Cohen's preparedness for this season. We here are not alone in thinking this.

 

[tripleflutz]

I think Hersh is just making this up, if Michelle had decided not to do Marshall's I doubt that she'd tell Hersh first.
I think she'll go because she'll get to skate twice, and since the judging method is likely to be just a popularity contest, she'll probably win the 50Gs because she is by far the most popular skater.
I like the Campbell's and Marshall's comps, but I have to admit, this fan judging is the dumbest thing yet. Are the suits at ABC braindead or what.

 

[swannanoa54]

I don't think it was the "suits at ABC" who thought this up. I think it was the USFS for reasons unknown to me. (Of course it's not like I would have known, but that sounded really good )

If Irina is skating like a professional and Kwan is too, then maybe they should forego the Olympics because it's for amateurs not professionals.

While I liked the idea of Sasha skating to R&J, I do NOT like this LP because of the cuts. Her exhibition was far more interesting and really showcased her abilities (despite wonky landings and insecure edges).

IF Shizuka came out, blades blazing, landed everything PLUS her ability to "present" her program WITH her music, she should win over Irina on any given day. However, I don't believe she would based on the way this season is shaping up in favor of Irina.

My hope is that both Shizuka and Kwan skate the skates of their lives and let it be between the three of them. Then, if the judges do as they are doing now and place Irina's PCS scores above BOTH of them I will finally realize that skating is no longer about the ENTIRE package, but just a little bag. While I think, technically, Irina is better ( not superior) in some aspects, I think Shizuka and Michelle have everything and what they might lack in technical they more than make up in presentation.

 

[heyang]

Am I missing something, or is Mao not age-eligible and therefore NOT going to the OLYs?

If I recall correctly, her federation might petition for an exception based upon her performance at GP's.

 

[kyla2]

Read It Again

Read my post again for all of you who jumped all over it. I was talking about Sasha and Shizuka's programs, not necessarily the way they skate them at any given point. DancinDiva, the "Sasha has shallow edges" routine is old and isn't accurate. Find something else to complain about. The "Sasha can't do anything right crowd" needs to do a little self examining. Let me guess-who's right here, Peggy, Dick, et al. who think Sasha has the most talent of anyone out there, or you? It's a no brainer, I agree with Peggy and Dick. They have "walked the walk" and they know what they are talking about. No, Sasha's not perfect but apart from Michelle, there is no one else I would rather watch. This is not just my opinion (and boy aren't I entitled to it), but the opinion of many knowledgable people. You know who's opinion's I really respect? The people who can look at any given skater and see their strong points and their flaws but come to an unbiased opinion on a) their overall ability b) a fair appraisal of any given performance. They aren't there with an agenda, waiting to do a hatchet job on a particular skater. It's very easy to read some of these posts and see who has an axe to grind, an agenda to meet and a skater to rip apart, and then those (thank you) who simply have a reasonable opinion. Irina's strong points are these: she has maximized her strengths (spins and jumps) and improved a weakness (spiral sequence), while dealing with vasculitis. I admire her for that. But her presentation isn't even close to Sasha's and that's a no brainer too.

 

[soogar]

If I recall correctly, her federation might petition for an exception based upon her performance at GP's.

They're not going to do that anymore. An article was posted on FSU.

But Asada isn't good enough to really beat Irina. She's still too junior. And unfortunately Shiz just doesn't have the stomach to beat Irina. The Japanese girl who can beat Irina will be Miki. Miki is looking very good and she has made amazing improvements in her presentation under Carol Heiss. I think Carol is pacing Miki so she can skate her best at the Olympics and I think Miki is a tough competitor who will bring it when it counts.

 

[swannanoa54]

Actually I disagree, soogar. I think Shizuka does have the stomach to beat Irina otherwise why would she still be skating anyway? I think she's warming up and she'll get to the point where she was when she won Worlds in 2004. I think Shizuka can "stomach" beating anyone right now.

Miki Ando may be able to beat Irina, but I don't know yet. I haven't had a chance to see her programs at all. To me, at this point, Irina is just breezin' along as if there wasn't anyone out there to beat her. And I'm thinking that it could just be she could get over-confident by the Olys. But hey, I don't even want to watch the GPF now. Irina will get 200 points or more by then unless she falls flat on her face (and I don't mean that literally). I still don't see the wonderfulness in this year's programs, but I'm not a judge so I guess that's just too bad for me.

 

[havanamesa1]

But hey, I don't even want to watch the GPF now. Irina will get 200 points or more by then unless she falls flat on her face (and I don't mean that literally). I still don't see the wonderfulness in this year's programs, but I'm not a judge so I guess that's just too bad for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if she falls each time she jumps and receives 1,000 points. The only way she's not getting the gold -- at the GPF or the Olympics -- is if she doesn't show up. Just look at those PCS marks of 8s for sloppy skating. And by the time the Olys come, COP would probably have been revised already to accommodate scores above 10 for each Biellmann done...

 

[Mathman]

If Irina is skating like a professional and Kwan is too, then maybe they should forego the Olympics because it's for amateurs not professionals.

Perhaps you meant this tongue in cheek, but in sober fact, I agree 100%. To me, it is time to recognize the Olympics for what it is.

MM

 

[Mathman]

The Japanese girl who can beat Irina will be Miki. Miki is looking very good and she has made amazing improvements in her presentation under Carol Heiss. I think Carol is pacing Miki so she can skate her best at the Olympics and I think Miki is a tough competitor who will bring it when it counts.

Hoping for the best, but Miki still has an uphill road. In the most recent test Miki finished 11 points behind Slute in TES and 8 in PCS. That's a lot of ground to make up.

MM

 

[soogar]

Hoping for the best, but Miki still has an uphill road. In the most recent test Miki finished 11 points behind Slute in TES and 8 in PCS. That's a lot of ground to make up.

MM

Well for Miki to make up the technical ground, she just has to land her jumps. If Miki and Irina skate at capacity, it's not as if Irina has something that Miki doesn't. This isn't the same situation with Plush and the other guys where Plush's jumps are a million times better than everyone else out there plus only he and Lambiel (and Li) are the only guys landing quads regularly.

Like Alissa, the more events Miki skates cleanly in, the higher her PCS scores are going to get. She just needs to continue building up.

 

[nymkfan51]

Miki could certainly equal Irina's tech content, but there is no way on God's green earth they would ever give her PCS scores equal to Irina's.

I have a better chance of winning "Mega Millions."

 

[soogar]

Miki could certainly equal Irina's tech content, but there is no way on God's green earth they would ever give her PCS scores equal to Irina's.

I have a better chance of winning "Mega Millions."

Her PCS scores should be better, IMO. Miki is so smooth on the ice and she had beautiful edges and leg positions on her spirals (so much better than last year). Though Miki does still have a lot of room for improvement.

 

[gezando]

Read my post again for all of you who jumped all over it. I was talking about Sasha and Shizuka's programs

IMO Cohen's and Shizuka's programs can't be mentioned in the same breath, Arakawa's programs have choreography, transitions, and not front end loaded etc.

DancinDiva, the "Sasha has shallow edges" routine is old and isn't accurate. Find something else to complain about.

But Dancindiva is correct, as long as Cohen's edges do not improve, Dancindiva has a valid point. At least relative to all the top skaters, Irina, Sarah, Arakawa, Fumie, and God forbid if anyone mentions Miki or Asada, Cohen's edges are not as deep.

Peggy, Dick, et al. who think Sasha has the most talent of anyone out there,, ... I agree with Peggy and Dick. They have "walked the walk" and they know what they are talking about.

Now since you started in this thread by whining about Irina's placement, lets see, Dick and Peggy did not go to judging school, but the judges did, and guess what, the judges love Irina's skating. OTOH, uncle Dick and aunt Peggy like you said had not been there, the judging school, yeah, and Dick and Peggy go ad nauseum about dissing Irina for not pointing her toes, guess who I believe, the judges.

Sasha's not perfect but apart from Michelle, there is no one else I would rather watch

And there are many knowledgeable people who use Cohen as a bathroom break and at the same time love Irina's skating.

Irina's strong points are these: she has maximized her strengths (spins and jumps) and improved a weakness (spiral sequence), while dealing with vasculitis. I admire her for that. But her presentation isn't even close to Sasha's and that's a no brainer too.

I believe in the presentation part PCS of scores Irina beat Cohen's in every category, and guess whose opinion count, the judges who have been to judging school. In the judges opinion, Cohen's presentation is not near Irina's. At least Irina chooses a different variety of music, she has not skated to the same piece for 4 times in 8 years ala Cohen's Dark Eyes. At least Irina prepares a new piece of lp music for her olys instead of recycling R&J, one of the most boring pieces.

 

[millie]

With regards to Irina and the Olympics, Irina has already proved that she can do it. Not by waiting for someone else to fall or make a mistake but she can do it with her own capabilities and strengths. She has overcome many adversities and problems in her life when any normal person would have given up and said enough already. She proves everytime that she goes out onto the ice that she can do it and skates as if it's her last skate. If by some chance someone else beats her on that night at the Olympics, we all know that she is capable and could have made it, but that's the way the Olympics goes.

With regard to the other skaters, they got a lot of catching up to beat Irina at this point. It's not written in stone that irina will win the OGM, but if she don't get it, it won't be for the lack of trying and working hard. She has proven lately that she has what it takes to get to the top, let's hope her health and strenght don't fail her, that would be a shame.

 

[gezando]

With regards to Irina and the Olympics, Irina has already proved that she can do it. Not by waiting for someone else to fall or make a mistake but she can do it with her own capabilities and strengths.

I think Irina is in the driver's seat, i.e if she skates her best, no one can beat her.

 

[nymkfan51]

I think Irina is in the driver's seat, i.e if she skates her best, no one can beat her.

And if she doesn't skate her best, no one can beat her.

And with regard to presentation, the very fact that judges are giving her anything above 6.50 in this area is the biggest reason for me to question the PCS scores.
Which is why I think the outcome has already been decided. Irina has many good qualities ... interpretation of music is not one of them ... and yet it has been universally decided that because of her skills in other areas, then she's going to get credit for a skill she does not have.
And I feel as strongly as everyone else that Irina be heralded for her strength and determination through very trying times, but that still doesn't change the way I view her skating skills.

 

[flowjo35]

I know some are giving Irina the OGM, but I have a feeling that there may be some surprises the the ladies competition. Michelle, Shizuka and Sasha could have the skate of their lives. Anything can happen, the ice is very slippery. I just hope it's a fair and exciting competition and the best skater wins.

 

[Enero]

Anything can happen, the ice is very slippery.

So True. And after watching Irina's COC freeskate. I'm not so sure she's unbeatable. She wasn't as clean as I orignally thought. She two-footed her double axel and had a not so great landing on a loop (I believe). And her presentation is just awful, nowhere near as good as her short. Granted she got the PCS scores, but like someone mentioned in another thread, that could be because she was head and shoulders above her competition (particularly in the short) at COC.

At the Olympics that won't be the case. Skaters who CAN compete with her will be competing, and I think the judges may not be so generous, especially if the other ladies are on top of their game.