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- Mar 19, 2006
NHK Trophy Preview
- Thread starter gsk8
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Brilliant
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- Jul 11, 2003
Clever editorializing.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
That's a very contradictory statement, he can't easliy afford to do anything if the statement is contingent on not making other mistakes....if there is the possiblity that other mistakes could be made than he can easily afford nothing and needs to throw it all down in order to win.
Ant
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Wait, wait wait, now you're saying that lambiel's fans are against him??? I'm really confused.
I really diasagreed with Lambiel's downgraded 3A and i was the one who dug out the rules and protocols to show that more than half the judging panel saw (and graded) a clean 3A. I also think that Lambiel does "have" a 3A but that when the pressure is on its his nemesis jump. The one that is likely to fail him if he's struggling. Most skaters have one jump that is like that.
I personally don't understand why the double world champion is not favourite for teh win at NHK. To my mind the money jumps are the 3A and a Quad - you need at least one of them to be podium competitive and both if you have your sights on the top step. Oda has no quad....does he even attempt one? Lambiel has at least two quad and at least one 3A planned, so he must get the nod no?
If we'e saying that Lambiel doesn't have a triple axel then i'm amazed we can say Takahashi has any jump since his jumps (and that's most of them ) are as hit and miss as Lambiel's 3A. I think the need for both 3A and 4 for lambiel came about from the looking at the planned jump content of Takahashi along with the idea that skating in ones home country can produce boosts for the skaters fromt eh crowd such that they perform better and get higher PCS or simply that the judges are influenced by the home crowd roars and mark higher.
Saying that Lambiel does NOT NEED a 3A is just crazy talk. The day he doesn't need a triple axel is the day that he can land both quads and the rest of his triples 100% in practice and run throughs and 100% in competition. He can't do that (no-one can) and therefore he NEEDS every jump he can land that will lead him to the highest score. That will include a 3A. If he wants to leave the triple axel out and expect to win, the only competition he can really do that in is Swiss nationals...everywhere else, they're breathign down his neck and if he wants the gold he needs both jumps.
Ant
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- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Every body needs evey jump in order to guarantee a victory. Having the attitude that someone doesn't "need" a jump to win is just sloppy. In my opinion the only person who could think about not "needing" jumps to win is someone who has all of his jumps so solidly that he can guarantee he'll get the rest...no-one can skate with that attitude not even Plushcenko. Even he (who is light years ahead of anyone in terms of jumping) has popped triple axels, fallen on quads and triple axels, slipped of the entrance edge of a triple loop and popped that damned triple salchow enough times to know that he shoudl go for EVERYTHING.
If they're athletes then they should be going gung ho each time, the only possilb etime to not bother is a decision taken as you take the ice because you know everyone else fell.
Ant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Good post, Ant. , and it's summer nitpick time for Lambiel.
I'm a great believer in the take-off of a 3A (Lambiel' recent troubles). I believe it should only be on a slightly FO edge or even a flat, and it won't get involved with a pop or an underrotated axel. Of course the skater must be able to revolve 3-1/2 times in the year. It's not an ice take off cheat like the Toe, or loop.
Lambiel is capable of revolving 4 times in the air. That would not be a problem. It's the take-off.
Joe
I'm a great believer in the take-off of a 3A (Lambiel' recent troubles). I believe it should only be on a slightly FO edge or even a flat, and it won't get involved with a pop or an underrotated axel. Of course the skater must be able to revolve 3-1/2 times in the year. It's not an ice take off cheat like the Toe, or loop.
Lambiel is capable of revolving 4 times in the air. That would not be a problem. It's the take-off.
Joe
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Looking ahead to the GP Final, both Lambiel and Oda are pretty much in, no matter what they do. To me, what is most interesting about NHK this year will be the third place finishes across the board. In each discipline five of the six places in the finals are more or less decided, with the sixth place up for grabs in this event.
In men's, it's Joubert, Lysacek, Lambiel, Oda and Preubert. If Takahashi gets third he will probably have the points to beat out Weir for the last spot. Joe made a good point on another thread -- what about Li? Li can't make the finals himself, but either he or van der Perren could knock out Takahashi (assuming that Lambiel and Oda go 1-2) and put Weir in the finals.
In ladies, whoever gets (only) third is out, leaving the possibility for Rochette to make the finals, depending on Mao's placement.
In pairs we have Petrova/Tikhonov, Inoue/Baldwin, Savchenko/Szokowy, Shen/Zhou, Zhang/Zhang and...? Whoever gets third at NHK between Marcoux/Bunting and Obertas/Slavnov.
Dance has Denkova/Staviski, Domina/Shabulin, Belbin/Agosto, Delobel/Schoenfelder, Dubreuil/Lauzon and...? If Gregory/Petukov beat Khoklova/Novitski, they're in, otherwise it goes to a tie-breaker.
Bronze is where the action is in this one!
In men's, it's Joubert, Lysacek, Lambiel, Oda and Preubert. If Takahashi gets third he will probably have the points to beat out Weir for the last spot. Joe made a good point on another thread -- what about Li? Li can't make the finals himself, but either he or van der Perren could knock out Takahashi (assuming that Lambiel and Oda go 1-2) and put Weir in the finals.
In ladies, whoever gets (only) third is out, leaving the possibility for Rochette to make the finals, depending on Mao's placement.
In pairs we have Petrova/Tikhonov, Inoue/Baldwin, Savchenko/Szokowy, Shen/Zhou, Zhang/Zhang and...? Whoever gets third at NHK between Marcoux/Bunting and Obertas/Slavnov.
Dance has Denkova/Staviski, Domina/Shabulin, Belbin/Agosto, Delobel/Schoenfelder, Dubreuil/Lauzon and...? If Gregory/Petukov beat Khoklova/Novitski, they're in, otherwise it goes to a tie-breaker.
Bronze is where the action is in this one!
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- Jun 2, 2005
According to ISU, Stephane Lambiel is out of NHK. (I'm guessing injury?)
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
That is unfortunate. I was looking forward to Lambiel making a mockery of the ridiculous NHK preview that is featured here, but now he wont get to do that.
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- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Blackrose is right, alas:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/c...1-3787-4771-layout46-129898-news-item,00.html
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/c...1-3787-4771-layout46-129898-news-item,00.html
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
The author will have to revise her prediction for third place, that's for sure.
Still, I would have thought that Lambiel fans would be more concerned about Stephane's injuries or illness than about scoring debating points or missing a chance to insult imaginary foes.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I am not worried about Lambiel and I think this will be good for him. Joubert is his biggest competition for the World title this year, not Oda. He will meet Joubert at Europeans and have more time to heal his body since he has been dealing with so many injuries the last 3 years. That will be a good benchmark for him going into Worlds.
The word is Lambiel has a virus, but I think he also is still nursing his knees. I think he is in a similar situation to Michelle Kwan and Evgeny Plushenko. Neither of those wanted to do the GP after several seasons of one competition after another, because their physical problems just got worse and worse.
I am beginning to think that Stephane may not make it to 2010.
I am beginning to think that Stephane may not make it to 2010.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I agree that Lambiel does not need GPF, and he doesn't need to participate at less than 100% in GPF, especially with Joubert on a roll. With 15 points, Lambiel is out of the running.
Right now, Joubert, Lysacek, and Preaubert are guaranteed spots.
Were van der Perren to win, he'd be in on the first tiebreak, regardless of where Oda and Takahashi place. Like with Asada, anything lower than 1st, and he's out of contention. Oda would have to drop to 5th (5 pts) to lose a spot if KvdP and DT go 1/2.
If van der Perren doesn't win, Weir is guaranteed a spot regardless of where Oda and Takahashi place.
If van der Perren comes in 2nd, Takahashi can come in as low as 4th, if his total score for both events is higher than van der Perren's, and he's got a spot if KvdP comes in 3rd.
Right now, Joubert, Lysacek, and Preaubert are guaranteed spots.
Were van der Perren to win, he'd be in on the first tiebreak, regardless of where Oda and Takahashi place. Like with Asada, anything lower than 1st, and he's out of contention. Oda would have to drop to 5th (5 pts) to lose a spot if KvdP and DT go 1/2.
If van der Perren doesn't win, Weir is guaranteed a spot regardless of where Oda and Takahashi place.
If van der Perren comes in 2nd, Takahashi can come in as low as 4th, if his total score for both events is higher than van der Perren's, and he's got a spot if KvdP comes in 3rd.
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- Mar 28, 2005
I agree. I think if Stephane doesnt do pretty well at Worlds this year, winning at the very least silver, he will probably retire with all the injuries that keep coming up.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
You mean like the ridiculous preview where you called me a Lysacek fanatic, and he still placed (in both events) as predicted?
Anyhoooo, predictions are just that - it's all about the roll of the dice - I mean ice.
It's a little late in the game to revise but will do so - after I get a second cup of java in me.
Couldn't have said it better.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
How on earth can an innury be good for any skater????
I believe the info is that he has a viral infection, not an injury. Not fun, of course, and unfortunate timing, but not as devastating as an injury would be. Perhaps he will have less stress, less travel, and more time at home, on home ice, to prepare his new LP for nationals and the larger (Euros, Worlds) events. I hope that whatever it is, he's feeling much better soon and will be in top form when he faces Joubert.
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