Pairs FS Worldwide: The Divine Discipline | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Pairs FS Worldwide: The Divine Discipline

The other part of what's interesting is how J/R will fare, not only against M-T/M, but also against U.S. teams. J/R have the rep status separately (with their former partners), and political backing by Skate Canada (which is not a small thing). The top U.S. pairs teams have top quality 3-twists, throws, and lifts. Plus, Knierim/Frazier have good sbs jumping skills.

I noticed that J/R have very good unison on their spins, especially for a newly partnered team, plus they are smooth and graceful. OTOH, J/R's 3-twist (while pretty and smoothly executed) does not have the amplitude and wow factor that some U.S. teams possess. The judging will definitely be interesting. And, as always, skate order will likely be a factor, as will the leavening factor of any mistakes that are made by top contending teams.
 
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BlissfulSynergy said:
Many fans have wondered whether/ when Nic Nadeau might switch to pairs. As a tall skater, he has the potential to be a good pairs guy. There are rumors that Nic will soon be switching to pairs:


This next conversation is somewhat confusing to follow, but here it is:
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The problem is Nic jumps and spins clockwise. It's hard to find another female clockwise skater to pair with. As for mirror pairs, there haven't been many sucessful pairs since Yamaguchi/Galindo.
 
GarthAqua said:
The problem is Nic jumps and spins clockwise. It's hard to find another female clockwise skater to pair with. As for mirror pairs, there haven't been many sucessful pairs since Yamaguchi/Galindo.
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It ain't impossible though. Also, there's something to be said for the unique patterns and positioning that mirror pairs can create. The most recent moderately successful mirror pair with the potential to move on to greater success were Winter Deardorff and Mikhail Johnson, but sadly they recently split (in part likely due to the pandemic, Mikhail's academic desires, and the problems their former coach Sappenfield is having).

I really hope that Winter is able to find a new partner, even if she has to represent a different country. I enjoy her skating and I miss seeing her.

I hope Nic keeps searching far and wide. He's another fun, athletic performer who deserves to be able to continue pursuing a career in the sport he loves. Never say never.
 
Some fans have critiqued the color of Vanessa's sp outfit as being too dark. I love the styling, but I have to agree that the dark navy color against Vanessa's dark skin doesn't enhance her look as well as it should on the ice. I really hope that Vanessa hears this constructive critique and decides to change to a color that will pop better against her skin in her on-ice performances with Eric. Vanessa has a great deal of style altogether, and she always looks fabulous in what she wears on and off the ice. But this seems to be a valid color critique re her sp dress. For her fp, based on the Twitter clip Eric provided, Vanessa appears to be wearing a light blue. So maybe she should go with a rich emerald shade for the sp. I think emerald would still work for the melancholy, reflective music they skate to for their sp.

Looking back at Vanessa's gorgeous costuming on Battle of the Blades further advances the fact that Vanessa looks great in brighter jewel tones. She can still wear a deep, rich color, but for blues, she should consider a sapphire, teal, cerulean or something in the brighter blue green shades, or emerald green shades. Check out these BOTB videos as a great example of how brighter jewel tone shades pop against Vanessa's skin. In the final video, the tangerine dream of a color is stunning on Vanessa. I wonder whether she was able to keep any of these lovely outfits once the show ended?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPAxXiD-_Yk Vanessa & Akim Silence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IOnPURt6g0 Vanessa & Akim Twist & Turn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0n1FjIXko Vanessa & Akim Nina Cried 'Power'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBM7wXAnPsc Vanessa & Akim Freedom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3JnfFMRH8 Vanessa & Akim Ruin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVCgvET2mk0 Vanessa & Akim Scared to Live

Akim Aliu is a Canadian hockey player. I'm not familiar with Canadian hockey athletes, nor with hockey in general. But he certainly cuts a striking figure on the ice with Vanessa, as did the tall, massive Brian McGrattan, in Vanessa's first season with BOTB! But Aliu with Vanessa is even better. And if you watch the entire competition, it's debatable why Vanessa & Aliu didn't make the final. If it hadn't been left in part to viewers for the judging process, I think Vanessa & Aliu would have been in the final against Meagan Duhamel & her BOTB partner, Wojtek Wolski. The actual BOTB judges I believe gave a tie to Vanessa & Akim and Meagan & Wojtek in the semi-final round. Asher Hill and his female hockey partner, Jessica Campbell, were the weaker of the three semi-finalists, in part because Asher is a former ice dancer, not a former pairs skater. So, the viewing audience choosing Asher & Jessica for the showdown with Meagan & Wojtek, over Vanessa & Akim was obvious favoritism and biased fan voting, which always happens in these televised dancing/ skating shows.
 
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As I mentioned in the U.S. Pairs thread, Ashley/TImothy's new sp was filmed in three parts by Jordan Cowan of OIP, and it's posted in full on his Patreon website page. You only need to sign up for a small monthly amount as a patreon to access the full video. Plus there is other bonus content available for patreons. And OIP is certainly very worthy of fan support!

Those who have viewed this fabulous sp by Ash/Tim, what are your thoughts? They look fit and so on point. It is a crying shame that Ashley came down with the dreaded virus after being fully vaccinated. What we witness happening to Ashley is a great reason for everyone to realize the importance of continuing to mask, to wash hands, to maintain safe social distancing, and to be cognizant and careful no matter whether you are fully vaxxed, and especially if you are NOT!

Praying for Ashley's quick, safe, and full recovery. I do hope she will be in a position to return to training in order to at least compete in the second half of the season, if they have to miss their GPs. What a bummer! They look so good together, and extremely competitive with top U.S. pairs and with second and first tier global pairs. No kidding! Ash/Tim loaded for bear and taking no prisoners in how prepared they have been looking this season. Why they have to be met with such hardships to keep coming back from, I don't know. God be with them. I am rooting for them all the way, especially since this could be their last season, or at the very least winding down for maybe one more season post Olympics.

Training with Mozer always looks good on Ash/Tim. But I think how fit and determined they have been over the entire off-season is the biggest factor. They got a taste of what they can truly accomplish at 2021 Worlds, and they clearly want another opportunity to compete in the majors and show their mettle. :pray: ✊ ✝️ 🕊️ 💪 ❤️
 
BlissfulSynergy said:
because Asher is a former ice dancer, not a former pairs skater. So, the viewing audience choosing Asher & Jessica for the showdown with Meagan & Wojtek, over Vanessa & Akim was obvious favoritism and biased fan voting,
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Or perhaps, some people appreciate dance as well as (or more than ) the flashier pairs moves. Someone's bias is showing, and I'm not sure it is the fans'.
 
NanaPat said:
Or perhaps, some people appreciate dance as well as (or more than ) the flashier pairs moves. Someone's bias is showing, and I'm not sure it is the fans'.
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LOL. Asher was great. But of course, he and his partner didn't perform acrobatic pair elements. So while Asher & Jessica were very entertaining with their performances, I just don't think they were as strong in the semi-final as were Meagan and Vanessa with their partners. The BOTB judges felt the same way, clearly.

Maybe it is harder for female hockey partners to make the transition to this pairs/dance on ice format. I say this based on the BOTB seasons I have seen. It's not a knock on female hockey players, but in general, strong hockey guys can throw and lift more easily, and maybe get some dance moves together on the ice. Female hockey players are strong, but it takes lot to learn pairs elements in a short period of time. The focus tends to be more on the female in pairs skating and in ice dance (obviously there are some exceptions in terms of strong pairs and ice dance guys who can steal the spotlight).

I know one of the BOTB judges for season 6 (Amanda Spooner) was a former BOTB female hockey player contestant who skated with Andrew Poje in season 5. She was good, but I think she has a great personality and she was also very popular with the Canadian audience, which is what helped her that season, along with the great partner she had in Andrew. The routines are short for a reason. In these contests, everyone generally does a great job. Still, unless viewers are kidding themselves or simply being biased, it's not that difficult to determine who the best pairings are, depending upon the measures under consideration. Seriously, as we all know, a lot of times the best competitors in these types of shows do not make it to the final due to favoritism in fan voting. You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am on the basis of what I viewed.

I'm certainly not biased against ice dance, nor am I biased against Asher. What he did was entertaining, but his partner, Jessica Campbell, was not that strong overall. Again, the issue is that up against Meagan and Vanessa doing what they can do with pairs moves, of course Jessica would not be that strong, no matter how wonderful Asher is, and he is wonderful. If you want to talk about bias, let's discuss why Asher and his lovely former ice dance partner, Nicole Orford, didn't get the scores they should have for their exquisitely beautiful free dance, The Theory of Everything. I still lament how there wasn't enough support for Asher and Nicole to continue their career. We wuzrobbed, and so were they. Yeah, I know that Virtue/Moir came back and a lot of Canadian ice dance teams knew it would be difficult for them in the lead-up to the 2018 Olympics. Still, that's not a reason why Asher & Nicole did not receive better support and better scores:

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ETA:
To make an aside regarding ice dance, I haven't watched recent ice dance events. Not because I don't enjoy watching ice dance. I love so many ice dance teams, and I miss watching. But I have really soured on the ice dance discipline in the way the judging is so obviously returning to blatant country politics. I'm just not interested in seeing the ice dance judging return to overt political favoritism. And if you think I'm biased against the current Russian champions, well, I used to root for them. But, I don't think they improved to the point where they deserve to be pushed up to the top the way they have been over several seasons.

As we know, Russia is really tired of North American teams dominating in ice dance. Sure SinKats have put in work and improved. They deserve credit for their improvements, but they're not truly better than a lot of teams. It's pure politics going on. I also enjoy the very entertaining Stepanova/ Bukin, but they were also pushed up in the scoring, as we know. That said, this is discussion for ice dance thread, which I do not frequent.
 
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BlissfulSynergy said:
Asher was great. But of course, he and his partner didn't perform acrobatic pair elements.
Click to expand...

BlissfulSynergy said:
I'm certainly not biased against ice dance, nor am I biased against Asher.
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Sure you aren't. But according to you, acrobatic pair elements are the only or major or deciding criteria for judging on BOTB.

I am familiar with and loved Orford/Hill. But blathering on about them does not negate your prejudice against ice dancers vs pair skaters on BOTB, which you took care to re-state!
 
NanaPat said:
Sure you aren't. But according to you, acrobatic pair elements are the only or major or deciding criteria for judging on BOTB.

I am familiar with and loved Orford/Hill. But blathering on about them does not negate your prejudice against ice dancers vs pair skaters on BOTB, which you took care to re-state!
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I'm not even a true fan of any of these shows like DWTS or BOTB, because the viewer-biased judging skews toward unfairness and inaccuracy. Obviously, that's part of the appeal of these shows for some. I only watched BOTB because of some of the high profile skaters on the last couple of return seasons. I was glad to be introduced for the first time to many of the hockey players. It's quite a fun and entertaining show. Similar ice-related contest shows in the U.S. have not done as well.

You can accuse me of 'blathering.' But I answered your post. If you don't like my detailed answer, oh well. Hey, it's pretty obvious that we are in a pairs thread. Those are the threads I frequent for a reason. LOL! I have said before and I will repeat, my fave disciplines right now in order of preference are Pairs (since forever and always); Men; Ice Dance; and Ladies bringing up the rear. Also, notice the addendum to my previous post. You can call me biased for pairs if you like. :ROFLMAO:

Still, it's worth noting that there's a lot of cross-fertilization between pairs and ice dance these days, which has truly enhanced the pairs dynamic for a number of teams (formerly epitomized in the improvements made by James/Cipres over the last 3 years of their career).

If BOTB is judging Asher & his partner solely on ice dance-related skills, so be it. They were entertaining, but still not as exciting and entertaining as Vanessa/Akim and Meagan/Wojtek. My original post wasn't a knock against ice dance anyway -- that's how you chose to interpret what I said. It's clearly possible for ice dancers to win on BOTB. Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje were very strong in season 5, and they had very good hockey player partners. Kaitlyn won season 5 with her partner. So match-ups are a key factor from season-to-season. Meagan and Vanessa simply brought some strong pairs skills to season 6, along with having very well-matched partners who grew in ability over the course of the season.

Plus IMO, the BOTB fans were biased toward Meagan & Wojtek mostly, because as Canadians, they love Meagan and Wojtek, and they also love Asher, and probably Jessica too. Many may not even be aware that Vanessa was born in Canada. I don't know anything about Canadian hockey players, but I do know that hockey is big in Canada, probably bigger even than figure skating, which is popular there too.

Asher did a great job with Jessica. She was the weaker link. Is what it is. That's my opinion. If you want to discuss ice dance, there's threads for it. :) Vanessa James is a pairs skater, so her stint on BOTB is relevant to this thread.

ETA:
FWIW, Meagan & Wojtek later reflected on their win in a BOTB video posted to Facebook. But who did they single out as their tough competition: Vanessa & Akim, in the semi-final. Boom!
 
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BlissfulSynergy said:
Some fans have critiqued the color of Vanessa's sp outfit as being too dark. I love the styling, but I have to agree that the dark navy color against Vanessa's dark skin doesn't enhance her look as well as it should on the ice. I really hope that Vanessa hears this constructive critique and decides to change to a color that will pop better
Click to expand...

BlissfulSynergy said:
Looking back at Vanessa's gorgeous costuming on Battle of the Blades further advances the fact that Vanessa looks great in brighter jewel tones.
Click to expand...

OTOH, looking at Vanessa's performance again with Eric, she still looks good. I didn't even think about the color of her outfit being a drawback in any way, until I saw some critiques by other fans. Vanessa definitely rocks her stylish outfits, and then some! :cool: So I guess bottom line, who are any of us fans to dictate what colors Vanessa looks good in on the ice!

ETA:
I checked out James/Radford's sp again. In looking at them waiting for their scores at the end, we can get a better view of their costumes. The color of Vanessa's outfit is actually a bright navy blue, and the skirt is sheer. It's not really that dark a color. So it's probably the nature of the lighting in the rink which may have made her costume seem darker during their performance. Also, up close, Eric's costume is a deep navy and black, with the sheer shoulders. Their costumes match very well, and are nicely styled, in addition to matching the musical theme. So, at this point, the color critiques seem to be a bit of nitpicking mainly.

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BlissfulSynergy said:
The arms akimbo feature while twisting in the air looks so pretty on Vanessa.
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Vanessa & Eric apparently train with Deanna/Maxime (and I believe Matte/Ferland are also in the same training group). I forget the name of the excellent coach who works in that camp, and is probably assisting Julie Marcotte as the main coach for Vanessa/Eric. Checking on Wiki doesn't tell me his name either, because stats and details for most skaters are not up-to-date on Wiki.

In any case, I have noticed that Deanna also employs a very pretty and similar arms akimbo move in her 3-twist, which is looking improved from last season, in terms of comfort and control for Deanna. She had said in an interview that Maxime throws her higher than her former partner, Nate B, so it has apparently been an adjustment to control the different trajectory and amplitude she gains from Maxime's throws. As well, Maxime has likely had to temper the strength and velocity of his throws. For those who haven't seen Deanna/Maxime's programs, see their sp posted below. I'm glad they're bringing back their fs from last season, which they barely were able to compete. You can find Deanna/Maxime's fs on the Quebec championships website.

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China has two new pair team this season. They competed at the interclub league recently. Wang Yuchen/Huang Yihang also competed there. No news about SH or PJ yet.

Zhao Wantong/Liu Yuhang: Free https://weibo.com/6361703010/KsQCeqzQx
3T1Eu2S 3S 2Tw Th2S Th2Lo
Liu wins bronze at COC last year with Zhu Daizifei. The new pair can attend junior level this season but they just teamed up recently so no triple twist or throw right now.

Zhang Siyang/Yang Yongchao: Short and Free https://weibo.com/6361703010/Ktonu1VA1
They have 3Tw Th3S sbs2A and sbs3T. Good skating skills and performance. They also only teamed up for a couple months.
Zhang was a single skater and competed at COC last year and Yang ranked 4th in 19JWC with former partner.

Wang Yuchen/Huang Yihang:
SP https://weibo.com/6361703010/KsYmG5EDt
Free https://weibo.com/6361703010/Kt9d3eDOc
They have 3Tw Th3S Th3Lo sbs3T, they did sbs3S last season but popped to 2S here.
They were 2nd at COC last yaer and 8Th at 20JWC. They are the team China will send to Nebelhorn this season for the third spot.
 
flanker said:
Interesting, because Alisa Efimova also doesn't represent Russia now, but Germany with Blommaert.
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It certainly makes sense for Efimova and Korovin to split and seek their individual fortunes partnered with skaters from other countries. They were going to have an even tougher time together trying to make it as a second tier Russian team. They never seemed very happy together.

Isabella's 3-twist with Korovin is huge, and he seems to skate with more energy in just this brief clip. He seems taller than I recall.

It's nice to hear that Harley Windsor has found a new partner.
 
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BlissfulSynergy said:
So, at this point, the color critiques seem to be a bit of nitpicking mainly.
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I have to disagree. Vanessa looks truly stunning in all the bright or pastel colors I've seen her wear, although I'm partial to seeing her in a medium sky blue dress, and she'd look great in that color of catsuit too. She rocks black and navy too, but those colors seem so muted that I vote for the brilliant colors. Of course, I am biased, because I'm just in general tired of seeing pairs women in black or navy or even dark purple. I don't know that costume color would affect scores and I hope it wouldn't, but you never know what can unconsciously affect human beings.

It gives me a lot of pure pleasure to see beautiful colors in costumes. Alexa Knierim and Kristen Moore-Towers, to name but two, never disappoint, in this respect. Oops, until now, and Alexa's wearing black for the SP. Sigh.
 
^^ Yes, a matter of taste and perspective really. The color looked to be a brighter blue in the kiss 'n cry. I think the lighting in the rink may have played a role in our on-screen perception, added to Vanessa's rich dark skin. Sometimes skaters choose colors based on the mood of the music, which in this case is a bit reflective and quiet, not calling for a bright color really. The styling of the outfit is gorgeous, as usual on Vanessa. She wears lovely costumes. Her fp costume appears to be a mix of lighter blue, if I'm not mistaken after seeing the clip posted on Twitter by Eric.

She does look wonderful in certain jewel shades. That's why I posted links to the gorgeous costumes she wore on the most recent season of BOTB!
 
BlissfulSynergy said:
Pardon me, but I noticed coverage of the Quebec championship debut by J/R, and I had to say something about it:

Par for the course, but the negative critique (particularly against Vanessa) by Dave Lease is OTT. Jonathan Beyer followed right along in Lease's wake, but it was obvious that Beyer at least desired to be fairer. Still, their critiques are mostly unfounded, particularly in refusing to listen to the lyrics of the quiet, reflective music chosen by J/R. And being so obvious in trying to trash Vanessa's SS. There are plenty of skaters today who have very questionable SS, but those skaters are not routinely looked down on in the knee-jerk way that Vanessa is (and was previously with Cipres). Mostly unfounded. Vanessa has always been a fast, powerful skater with consistent jumps, and her SS have improved. I won't name names, but there are other skaters whose positive attributes are emphasized, even when they obviously exhibit poor SS coupled with a lack of speed. Yet, such skaters aren't routinely critiqued in the overly negative way that Vanessa is, by these same detractors.

I'm glad to see there are a lot of fans giving honest praise to James/Radford for their smooth skating, good unison, and their long, gorgeous lines. This is a very good debut by a newly paired team who are veterans and champions with former partners. As with every pairs team, they have things to continue working on, which is to be expected especially for new partners.

Deanna & Maxime are looking very good as well, with steady improvements even from early this year at the Canadian virtual competition. They are bringing back their fp from last season, and their sp is to a cover of No Ordinary Love. I enjoy D&M's choreo in both programs.
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Dave Lease is OTT and out of order period.🙄

Glad to hear about Deanna and Maxine. Love her, don’t know much about him but looking forward to getting to know.
 
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