Pairs FS Worldwide: The Divine Discipline | Page 23 | Golden Skate

Pairs FS Worldwide: The Divine Discipline

Sabine

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Maybe the Canadian Fed was the only one doing their job. The Feds have to submit the pairs that are planning to compete the next season. It seems that some Feds just didn't do that or didn't want to accept the truth that a couple of pairs have split or retired. The list is a little confusing, but we have to live with it.
 

Dreamer57

Medalist
Joined
May 20, 2018

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
The ISU has raised technical minimums for Worlds:
From 27 to 29 in SP, from 44 to 46 in FS.
And the reason for this is… providing there’s 6/24 top pairs on this year’s roster… :scratch2: has ISU even commented that there’s no pairs discipline as such world-wide in the upcoming season unless they start promoting very new to it partnerships? I am befuddled.
 

labgoat

Can we do pull arabians in dance?
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
In reviewing some old championships I found the following. In 1981, the year after the expected Rodnina-Zaitsev and Babilonia/Gardner showdown, there was a dearth of pairs teams in europeans and worlds.

1981 Europeans
1 Irina Vorobieva / Igor Lisovski USSR
2 Christina Riegel / Andreas Nischwitz FRG
3 Marina Cherkasova / Sergei Shakhrai USSR
4 Birgit Lorenz / Knut Schubert GDR
5 Veronika Pershina / Marat Akbarov USSR
6 Susan Garland / Robert Daw GBR

1981 Worlds
1 Irina Vorobieva / Igor Lisovski USSR
2 Sabine Baess / Tassilo Thierbach GDR
3 Christina Riegel / Andreas Nischwitz FRG
4 Marina Cherkasova / Sergei Shakhrai USSR
5 Kitty Carruthers / Peter Carruthers USA
6 Veronika Pershina / Marat Akbarov USSR
7 Barbara Underhill / Paul Martini CAN
8 Susan Garland / Robert Daw GBR
9 Birgit Lorenz / Knut Schubert GDR
10 Lea Ann Miller / William Fauver USA
11 Luan Bo / Yao Bin CHN

The numbers began a slow rise the very next year and a respectable group was available by 1984.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics

Evgenia Tarasova and Fedor Klimov got maried! Congratulations!
I didn't know they were a couple. Congratulations to Evgenia & Fedor! I suppose their friendship built while training under Mozer together, and then they began dating romantically after Vlad & Evgenia split as a couple off-the-ice. Good luck to them! I suppose Vlad & Evgenia have retired?
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
Regarding James/Radford, I haven't seen anything officially said by them regarding continuing or not. But they are still practicing together, whether for shows or to continue competing, remains to be confirmed one way or the other. Vanessa posted a variation death spiral they've been working on, which looks cool and elegant:


Eric has posted group pics of his time in Thailand at the recent ISU Congress. Evan Bates was also there as an athlete rep, I suppose. Maddie accompanied Evan. It looks like they all enjoyed their time there. It remains to be seen how the new rules will pan out, and what direction the sport will be going in for the foreseeable future.


ETA:
Vanessa & Eric interview with Europe on Ice (Vanessa confirms that U.S. figure skating asked her to tryout with Danny O'Shea prior to her and Eric making the decision to pair up and return to competitive ice). This is not a new interview; it's from April 2022:
 
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LoisAGOEs

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
If they’re off the World Standing list, they’re not competing. And in the last few years I don’t think I’ve ever seen a skater or team get removed from that list by accident, it’s a pretty final move. It’s highly unlikely it’s a mistake, it just hasn’t been formally announced.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
^^ Yes, well, hopefully an official announcement will be made soon. The same goes for Alexa/Brandon (4th on the list, despite winning Worlds). The world standings list is not written in stone. It's obviously just a points indicator, which doesn't really give all the information. Nathan Chen is listed second on the men's list, because maybe Yuma skated in more competitions, but Yuma never beat Nathan. Plus, Nathan is definitely not going to be competing next season. Neither are a bunch of other skaters, including pairs teams who have either retired or split, but are still on the list. Certainly, there's a strong possibility that James/Radford are calling it a season, since they accomplished a world medal, and overcame a lot of negative noise from outside sources. I like how open they were in the previously linked interview in discussing what they weathered over the course of last season, and how they persevered.

An exhibition performance by Walsh/Michaud at An Evening With Champions, a few months ago. This is a fun program. Trennt's wonderful talents are on display. Evelyn is good, but she's still not at Trennt's level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0DmvUxKKM4

Denys Streaklin of France has a new partner, Osceane Piegad. They have been doing some training with Vanessa James. In a clip on Instagram, Denys says, "After this season, Vanessa will work with us." Denys and Osceane also mentioned trying to raise funds to attend a training program in the U.S. this summer, so hopefully that worked out for them. The way they worded Vanessa working with them "after this season," could mean she will be concentrating on shows, or possibly coming back with Eric for a final competitive season. It will be interesting to find out soon. The sport could use some veteran pairs staying in at least one more season, especially with all the retirements and splits that have occurred.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CclVRn3A-Xc/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
 
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BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
To clarify, I see a World Rankings list for 2021-2022 season, and then an updated World Standings list for 2022-2023 updated June 17. 2022. I found these lists on IFS Magazine website. I tried to find the information on ISU website, but that site is not easy to navigate. Apparently, rankings indicate entire season's stats, while standings going into a new season incorporate percentages of point standings for a couple of seasons.

Anyway, James/Radford were 5th on the 2021-2022 World Rankings list; Knierim/Frazier were 2nd, behind Tarasova/Morosov in first (T/M entered a lot of competitions last season, so they garnered more points, and coming in second at the Olympics also helped them build points, I suppose). Mishina/Galliamov are 3rd on the 2021-2022 World rankings list. Miura/Kihara are 4th, Sui/Han 6th, Lu/Mitrofanov (who split) are 7th, and Ash/Timothy (retired) are 8th: http://results.isu.org/ws/wr2021-22/wrpairs.htm

As of June 17, 2022:

Of course, the 'As of' list includes points from season 2020-2021 which J/R did not take part in because they were not yet a team then. Still, J/R's total points of 2045 from 2021-2022 season would place them at least 7th on this current 'As of' World standings list. I count at least 12 pairs teams on this updated list who I know have either retired or have split (and surely there are more I don't know about), not to mention the Russian pairs who won't be allowed to compete. Go figure. So, it's not really an updated list. Why bother issuing it? To me J/R not being on the list makes no sense even if they are retiring, with so many split and retired teams still appearing on the list. :shrug:

I get that perhaps the information about splits and retirements were not given to ISU in a timely fashion? Still, there doesn't appear to be any reasonably coordinated effort to determine accuracy on the list regarding who is actually competing next season. Perhaps it is impossible to publish with accuracy around who is competing since situations are always in flux. It looks like Canadian fed provided updated information regarding splits/retirements, while other federations did not?
 
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BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I can see US fed not being sure about Knierim/Frazier yet. But Lu/Mitrofanov split awhile ago; Ash/Timothy only recently announced their retirement. Calalang/Johnson announced their retirement after Worlds and they aren't on the updated list, while strangely Liu/O'Shea are still on the updated list, when I'm sure it's been known for some time that Chelsea Liu is not coming back to compete. It still hasn't been announced whether Danny is planning to continue, and whether or not he's found a new partner.

On both lists, the U.S. has three teams in the top ten, and four teams in the top 20.

Other countries in the top ten on the 2021-22 list:
Russia - 3; China - 1; Japan - 1; Canada - 1; Germany - 1

Other countries in top ten on the 2022-23 list:
Russia - 3; China - 2; Japan - 1; Italy - 1

If the U.S. updated to remove the retired and split teams, only one U.S. team (Knierim/Frazier) would be in the top ten (and it's still not confirmed whether K/F are continuing). The fourth U.S. team in the top 20 on both lists is: Emily Chan/Spencer Howe. So, Chan/Howe will need to gain a lot of competitive opportunities and do well in the coming season, especially if Knierim/Frazier are not returning to compete. For Canada, Walsh/ Michaud are the team in the top 20 on both lists, so they will need to lead Canadian pairs competitively, especially if J/R are retiring. More likely, Canada's McIntosh/Mimar will ultimately be leading Canada's charge for renewed pairs excellence over the next quad. For sure, Walsh/Michaud will be competitive, but I'm not sure how far they can move up on the basis of stellar talent, albeit Canadian political clout will help them if they perform consistently.

For China, it remains to be seen whether Sui/Han will return competitively. There's also question marks surrounding Peng/Jin and what their competitive status will be. Hase/Seegert of Germany have split, and I don't see the Italian team of Ghilardi/Ambrosini being highly competitive on the basis of talent, unless they improve exponentially. However, with the Russians and Chinese out, Italy can still place in the top ten, especially if Matteo Guarise continues with a new partner who can match his abilities. I expect both Georgian pairs teams to be very competitive in the coming season, with Safina/Berulava challenging for top of the podium, along with Miura/Kihara (particularly in the absence of the Russians and Chinese pairs, and if the U.S. team of K/F don't come back). It will be interesting to see what a second Japanese pair team can do internationally. I'm also curious to see how Stellato/Deschamps and Zabiako/Daleman will perform for Canada.

With the formation of Z/D (and if they are coming along well), possibly there was not much support from Skate Canada for James/Radford continuing. Or else, J/R made the decision independently based on different, personal reasons. Canadian fed likely is interested in developing the promising younger (and recently formed) teams they have in McIntosh/Mimar and Zabiako/Daleman. Plus, even as one of the older teams age-wise, Stellato/Deschamps have great potential and need opportunities to compete. Anyway, SC have James/Radford to thank for helping to gain three pairs spots for Canada, along with Walsh/Michaud doing well at Worlds too.

I will also be curious to see how Laura Barquero of Spain will perform after returning from her suspension, in partnership with Marco/Zandron. Since figure skating is unpredictable, there are sure to be many surprises.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
So, I see that it's been mentioned Phil Hersh tweeted that Alexa & Brandon have said they want to compete in the Grand Prix this fall. I wish that skating news was not so disparate and mysterious these days. Where are the official announcements?

If K/F are coming back to compete, that's good. They will be able to lead the U.S. discipline for at least another season, giving younger/ newer teams time to gain experience and confidence. There will also be a greater opportunity for the U.S. to maintain three spots for Worlds going into 2023-24 season.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I think once the GP list is out we at least will have some sort of an idea who’s left standing… same for Juniors, but the wait for junior lists is longer.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
^^ I guess we should never expect the ISU to institute rules that ever make complete sense, or logically benefit the sport and the athletes. :shrug:
 

LoisAGOEs

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Of course, the 'As of' list includes points from season 2020-2021 which J/R did not take part in because they were not yet a team then. Still, J/R's total points of 2045 from 2021-2022 season would place them at least 7th on this current 'As of' World standings list. I count at least 12 pairs teams on this updated list who I know have either retired or have split (and surely there are more I don't know about), not to mention the Russian pairs who won't be allowed to compete. Go figure. So, it's not really an updated list. Why bother issuing it? To me J/R not being on the list makes no sense even if they are retiring, with so many split and retired teams still appearing on the list. :shrug:

I get that perhaps the information about splits and retirements were not given to ISU in a timely fashion? Still, there doesn't appear to be any reasonably coordinated effort to determine accuracy on the list regarding who is actually competing next season. Perhaps it is impossible to publish with accuracy around who is competing since situations are always in flux. It looks like Canadian fed provided updated information regarding splits/retirements, while other federations did not?
It is up to federations to say a team should be removed from the list, they aren’t required to do it. So Canada, Hungary, and Switzerland appeared to be the most proactive as all of their split or retired teams or skaters were removed. The US were a little spotty on their removals, some were, some weren’t. Considering the TES statistics were updated early June (where all the World Standings removed teams and skaters are also removed) it’s safe to assume Cain/LeDuc’s retirement was too late to be taken off.

Some federations just wait for their skaters or teams to fall off the list when their points expire, Russia are definitely one of them. So the list is never going to be 100% accurate regarding whether everyone is still competing or not.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
Yeah, for sure, I would imagine that U.S. figure skating isn't eager to remove their teams from the list, with three teams in the top 10. It is curious though that C/J were removed, while Lu/Mitrofanov and Liu/O'Shea remained, even though all these splits were known for awhile. Of course, Ash/Timothy only recently announced their retirement, but their status was probably known already by U.S. officials before the public announcement.

We may get GP assignments on June 30.
 
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