pairs sp

[Skater Boy]

Everyone had to skate on this ice but the French Federation better fix it and fast. It isn't spilled milk when several people are mentioning it and the replays also suggest it appears to be the ice rather than bad technique. My fear is someone is going to get injured -- I think the French organizers should get on this or face a lawsuit. As a result we may get some new champions or medallists based on who gets lucky with the ice. I think the French organizers should get a 2 point deduction for this faux pas and a minus for grades of execution of this year world's lOL

 

[hurrah]

Yes, I'm really worried for the pairs skaters. With other skaters, bad ice may lead to bad jumps and falls, which is bad enough, of course, but with pairs... I don't want to think about it!!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

After seeing S/S throw axel, I can total see how a judge would give a positive GOE. She they had a great entrance she was very high, great flow, she was up right and tight in the air, great flow out of the jump. She did have a slight two foot landing but don't forget the judges only judge in real time and don’t have the benefit on instant replay. That jump was killer. I saw the two footed landing but she barely touched the ice with her blade and I would have only given her a -1 but I can certainly see judges giving a +1 depending on what they saw. I was a great jump. I don't think it warranted a -2, it's not like she stepped out of it.

Watching the video, to me, it was more than her free leg touching the ice; she clearly landed the jump on 2 feet. But everything else about the jump was truly amazing. I probably would have given it -1 but I am glad the move garnered more points than P&T's clean 3S.

 

[snowflake]

Happy to see the French pair, James/Cipres, improving step by step. Good to see a clean skate though "easier" elements. Nice also that it works well with a "tall" lady like Vanessa(1.67). I look forward to enjoying them for many years to come.

I don't see it as a big tragedy for Volosochar/Trankov. They have only competed at one world's + one season and has had lots of success. A little backlash can only be good for the future as a lesson to always, always stay focused. I'm sure they will take revenge in the long.

I think the judging was fair. As said before, it's close and many exciting things can happen on Friday.

About the ice: I haven't watched all, but wasn't the competition pretty good until the last two groups? Thanks Mao88 for the videos.

Aliona & Robin

ETA Just rewatched Takahashi/Tran Love her gesture at the end

 

[sky_fly20]

watching the pairs again I realized always how Ice is slippery and anything can happen
In a way that is also why I love FS, its very unpredicatble when you least expected it

 

[Ryan O]

Glad to see Marley & Brubaker make it into the top 10 for their first Worlds! I hope it continues into the Long Program. Go Mary and Rockne!

 

[Buttercup]

I don't know whose blog this is, but this is the best pairs summary I've seen. Especially the part about Volosozhar and Trankov...

 

[mikiandorocks]

I don't know whose blog this is, but this is the best pairs summary I've seen. Especially the part about Volosozhar and Trankov...

Poor Maxim... but I think that blogger really has a point

 

[lavender]

Wow, really enjoyed S/S's program and this performance of it! Love their positions on so many of the moves == the spisn, the lifts.

I agree....I hardly like spins these days but they have the best performed spins of all the pairs I've seen so far and although all the teams have tried their lifts they still do it the best.

 

[paircheck]

I agree....I hardly like spins these days but they have the best performed spins of all the pairs I've seen so far and although all the teams have tried their lifts they still do it the best.

year best pair spin in competition

 

[burntBREAD]

I don't know whose blog this is, but this is the best pairs summary I've seen. Especially the part about Volosozhar and Trankov...

That is my favorite skating blog. The way the blogger writes is so impressive and entertaining.

 

[skfan]

I don't know whose blog this is, but this is the best pairs summary I've seen. Especially the part about Volosozhar and Trankov...

thanks for the link. that blog entry is my 2nd favorite thing about worlds so far, after takahashi and tran's rare near clean program.

 

[Macassar88]

Watching the video, to me, it was more than her free leg touching the ice; she clearly landed the jump on 2 feet. But everything else about the jump was truly amazing. I probably would have given it -1 but I am glad the move garnered more points than P&T's clean 3S.

Pang and Tong did a 3Loop that could have been considered slightly two footed. A clean throw 3L from them would have gotten twos and threes.

 

[FlattFan]

After seeing S/S throw axel, I can total see how a judge would give a positive GOE. She they had a great entrance she was very high, great flow, she was up right and tight in the air, great flow out of the jump. She did have a slight two foot landing but don't forget the judges only judge in real time and don’t have the benefit on instant replay. That jump was killer. I saw the two footed landing but she barely touched the ice with her blade and I would have only given her a -1 but I can certainly see judges giving a +1 depending on what they saw. I was a great jump. I don't think it warranted a -2, it's not like she stepped out of it.

I normally agree with you, but this one is just bad.
What great entrance? They were stalking the throw for a while, with little speed and no transition going in.
What great flow? By the nature of two-footing, there's no flow.
While she was on the air, her position, height were nice. That was it.

Don't forget the judges SHOULD BE experts. If they can't spot mistakes and you can and I can in real time, maybe it's time they go back to the woods and tend cattle, eh? Judging FS isn't for them. Watching programs live, I find it's easier to spot mistakes. You're arguing as if judges should be mom and pop watching FS for the first time. Wrong assumption. Wrong conclusion. I see them getting -2 GOE across the board, evidence by the number of judges who actually gave them -2 GOE.

 

[skatinginbc]

What great entrance? They were stalking the throw for a while, with little speed and no transition going in. What great flow? By the nature of two-footing, there's no flow.

:agree:

 

[mousepotato]

I normally agree with you, but this one is just bad.
What great entrance? They were stalking the throw for a while, with little speed and no transition going in.
What great flow? By the nature of two-footing, there's no flow.
While she was on the air, her position, height were nice. That was it.

Don't forget the judges SHOULD BE experts. If they can't spot mistakes and you can and I can in real time, maybe it's time they go back to the woods and tend cattle, eh? Judging FS isn't for them. Watching programs live, I find it's easier to spot mistakes. You're arguing as if judges should be mom and pop watching FS for the first time. Wrong assumption. Wrong conclusion. I see them getting -2 GOE across the board, evidence by the number of judges who actually gave them -2 GOE.

They weren’t stalking it any longer than anyone else does and certainly not longer than they did for the flip and don’t forget it’s not just some throw sal it’s an axel, so the set up is completely different.

The jump begins while she is in front of him. After she landed she skated another 8-10 feet (watch the slo mo) so obviously she had flow coming out of the throw. Although by definition her “two footed landing” was considered such because both blades touched the ice, he left blade barely touched the ice and came off a second later and didn’t slow her down at all.

In contrast, here is a 3FTh where all things being equal, she steps out. A much worse error but she still only received 6 -2 and 3-1. As opposed to the 4 -2 and 1 -1 she got for the axel, not which throw has a more egregious error? If you thought she deserved a -2 for a blade lightly touching the ice that barely affected the throw, what would you have given the huge step-out? A -2 as well or a -3? What would you give a fall on the ice a -5? Judges have to weight all things and the error wasn't even close to a -2, just because the majority of judges did the same thing doesn't mean they are right, on any element.

 

[Mao88]

Videos - Pairs Short Program (Amended)

1. Aliona SAVCHENKO/Robin SZOLKOWY (GER)

2. Qing PANG/Jian TONG (CHN)

3. Narumi TAKAHASHI/Mervin TRAN (JPN)

4. Vera BAZAROVA/Yuri LARIONOV (RUS)

5. Meagan DUHAMEL/Eric RADFORD (CAN)

6. Wenjing SUI/Cong HAN (CHN)

7. Caydee DENNEY/John COUGHLIN USA

8. Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR/Maxim TRANKOV (RUS)

9. Stefania BERTON/Ondrej HOTAREK (ITA)

10. Mary Beth MARLEY/Rockne BRUBAKER (USA)

 

[FlattFan]

They weren’t stalking it any longer than anyone else does and certainly not longer than they did for the flip and don’t forget it’s not just some throw sal it’s an axel, so the set up is completely different.

Yes, that's called stalking. They were VERY slow and deliberate for that move. So what if it's an axel, you can't stalk an axel throw?

The jump begins while she is in front of him. After she landed she skated another 8-10 feet (watch the slo mo) so obviously she had flow coming out of the throw. Although by definition her “two footed landing” was considered such because both blades touched the ice, he left blade barely touched the ice and came off a second later and didn’t slow her down at all.

You need to look at Zhang and Zhang throws or Sui and Han throws to learn what "flow" should be like. By nature of pairs, all throw should at least have some flow. Unlike single skaters, she can't drill herself into one spot. She'd break her legs that way. Hence, they had no "flow" for that element.

In contrast, here is a 3FTh where all things being equal, she steps out. A much worse error but she still only received 6 -2 and 3-1. As opposed to the 4 -2 and 1 -1 she got for the axel, not which throw has a more egregious error? If you thought she deserved a -2 for a blade lightly touching the ice that barely affected the throw, what would you have given the huge step-out? A -2 as well or a -3? What would you give a fall on the ice a -5? Judges have to weight all things and the error wasn't even close to a -2, just because the majority of judges did the same thing doesn't mean they are right, on any element.

You can't give -5. The max is -3, btw. So yes, I would give a -2 automatically. For a huge step-out, -3 GOE + whatever +GOE for that throw, so yes, they could end up with a -2 GOE.
This 3A throw, they had no transition, no flow, just bad landing, so there is no +GOE, so they should get -2 GOE.

Tell me why should judges gave them +1 GOE or 0 GOE? You said you could see them doing so because they are human and can't catch mistakes?

 

[mousepotato]

You need to look at Zhang and Zhang throws or Sui and Han throws to learn what "flow" should be like. By nature of pairs, all throw should at least have some flow. Unlike single skaters, she can't drill herself into one spot. She'd break her legs that way. Hence, they had no "flow" for that element.

Funny you bring up S/H, they are the worst offenders. Here is their qual sal at 4CC. Even more of your so called ‘stalked’ taking up the entire rink to gain speed then half if it again for the jump, same landing, NO FLOW, Aliona at least glided on her back edge - per the rules , Sui had to go right into the next move indicating she was probably about to lose control and moved on to the next thing before it happend. (Stolbova is the best case of keeping an edge to prove to the judges she had the landing.)

Yet S/H were given

0 -1 -1 -1 +1 +2 -1 -2 -1

I wonder what they will be given at this competion with the same judges if she does it the same way. :think:

You can't give -5.

That’s precisely my point

This 3A throw, they had no transition, no flow, just bad landing, so there is no +GOE, so they should get -2 GOE.

That’s your opinion it was a bad landing that warrants a -2, I disagree. I’m not sure you know what flow means, or where transitions should be taken off on a score sheet.

Tell me why should judges gave them +1 GOE or 0 GOE? You said you could see them doing so because they are human and can't catch mistakes?

I never said the judges who gave them + GOE made mistake I said the ones who gave them -2 did, in my opinion. If a judge under normal circumstances would have given that jump a 2 or 3 but the two blades on the ice caused them to drip the GOE by two points the score would still be a 0 or 1, not every error has to be in the negative, I'm not sure fans understand that. Just because a skater makes a slight error on an element doesn’t mean the judges have to club them to death with the GOE. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[FlattFan]

I never said the judges who gave them + GOE made mistake I said the ones who gave them -2 did, in my opinion. If a judge under normal circumstances would have given that jump a 2 or 3 but the two blades on the ice caused them to drip the GOE by two points the score would still be a 0 or 1, not every error has to be in the negative, I'm not sure fans understand that. Just because a skater makes a slight error on an element doesn’t mean the judges have to club them to death with the GOE. It just doesn't work that way.

So +GOE in this case is accurate judging? You're really hopeless if you think judges can't see mistakes because they are human, too.
S/H should get -2/-1 GOE for that element, too.