People trying to oppose Tanith Belbin's U.S. citizenship

[antmanb]

In my book, G-R/M are in the same desperate-slimeball stew as the Giloolly-Harding Gang of 1994. How fabulous that ESPN obtained the letter & had the gall to air the piece.

You must be joking - using illegal physical violence to take out an opponent isn't even vaguely comparable to legally challenging something you disagree with.

Personally i think it shows bad sportsmanship but i can understand why someone would do it and lumping people in with criminal activity when they have committed no crime is a bit over the top.

Ant

 

[Ptichka]

Soogar, that's quite an assertion to make. Putting together a perfect team is difficult, and involves a lot of luck. Two great skaters may or may not skate well together. Tanith and Ben are very well matched; I am not at all certain Ben would have done as well with another partner.

I agree with everyone who is pointing out that the legislature is not just for Tanith. I would not support an outright exception, but this is a fair bill, and I see nothing at all wrong with it. The spending bill the legislation was attached to, OTOH, is a whole other matter... :sheesh:

 

[Tonichelle]

(Is it a crime to send a fake letter to a Senator?)
.

it's a crime to send a fake letter to anyone... you're representing someone else without permission LOL


I don't know if the parents were doing this or not, I don't know that if they did that the kids knew about it or not

who ever DID do it, did so in an underhanded matter.... this is not about only Tanith... and it's not like Ben isn't an American born and bred... we're "punishing" a trully great athlete because mommy and daddy have a chance to see their kid go because 2 or more teams above jr. aren't able to go because of a beaurotic mix up? God bless America :sheesh:

 

[euterpe]

Here is the text of the infamous letter (post #224):

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=694767#post694767

 

[Frau Muller]

You must be joking Ant

No I'm not. I'm darn serious. Desperate Dog-Eat-Dog Competitive Slimeballs in both cases. Nothing sportsmanlike in either case.

 

[BronzeisGolden]

From reading about this legislation, I really don't see how it unfairly benefits Tanith or how it pushes her undeservedly in front of others in the citizenship queue. I agree with Ptichka. It seems like a very worthwhile bill. As for the letter.....I certainly hope the parents weren't behind it. I can understand wanting their children to skate at the Olympic Games and realize a dream, but not if they aren't the best or most deserving of the spot. I can also understand them not wanting to see Tanith being given special consideration or something that isn't deserved. However, it seems apparent to me that she isn't being gifted with anything. It seems a bit underhanded to me as well. If they deserve to be at the Olympic Games, then they need to medal. And, if they medal, then they need to thank B&A for that 3rd spot that will allow them to participate in the Olympics and Worlds. :disapp:

 

[waxel]

This action would seem unnecessary. Of course now, after the letter scandal, people are slamming their abilities, but they have been moving up steadily (in the US ranks). Didn't they already have a good shot at getting a spot anyway?

And Shanti, you mentioned that they placed *somewhere* at CoR. Even though they most probably wouldn't have made the cut for the telecast. Even mentioning it is still classified as a spoiler. Let us once again be reminded this is a non-spoiler forum.

The post has been edited tonight, as yours has been as well, to get rid of the spoiler. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[swannanoa54]

In my book, G-R/M are in the same desperate-slimeball stew as the Giloolly-Harding Gang of 1994. How fabulous that ESPN obtained the letter & had the gall to air the piece.

I wonder what kind of 'greeting' GR/M will get when they step out onto the Nationals ice, come January? Oops....somebody forgot to teach Mrs. Mitchell the Golden Rule ('Do Onto Others....")

to VINLUVSKWAN - Rabinowitz/Mitchell are on-the-bubble....one of the 2-3 teams fighting for that 3rd spot on the team. Certainly not challenging for the Nationals gold but possible bronze. So Mama Mitchell & Team Rabinowitz are certainly on the warpath. They ain't doing it just for the homeland & apple pie.

I would certainly hope that the majority of figure skating fans at Nationals will NOT be like the ones who would "boo" skaters at an event, sent them nasty emails, etc. That's just outrageous.

B/A have been my favorite ice dance team for awhile. I knew they couldn't go to the Olympics because of her citizenship. I also know that she got lost in the 9/11 shuffle when new rules were instituted AFTER 9/11 and that she probably would have had her citizenship by now. She still has to pass the citizenship test, doesn't she? (I don't think she's taken it yet)

What I don't understand here is the animosity directed towards another set of skaters for the "alleged" actions of their parents? Did anyone see an actual signature or just the typed names on this letter? As I understand it, the signatures were blacked out. Did ESPN provide information that they had compared the signatures to others? I mean, really.

And so what if a parent wants to write to a Senator for assistance? It's legal. At least she didn't get some hired gun to hurt B/A. It's not a slimeball tactic and it's not unfair of anyone to do this. If you're not in agreement with the bill, write your Senator. I would if I trusted my Senator NOT to do the right thing.

Personally I was not in favor of this in the first place until I went and researched what the entire bill was about. It's not about JUST Tanith but about other immigrants as well who got shafted with the rule change. Maybe if someone sat down and explained the entire bill to these parents, they would have stepped back and let it go. Maybe not. But they are certainly within their rights to complain to their senator without the whole figure skating fandom world getting their panties in wads over it. And since none of us have walked a mile in their shoes, how do we know they really did it, that the skaters knew about it and/or that someone else isn't doing something pointing the finger at them?

And how would you like to be this team who steps out on the ice at Nationals just to have no one applaud you? Or silence after you finish your skate? Or even the crassest fan thing of all-boo'ing? How would YOU feel if it was you? Whether you like the tactic or not, it is legal and it doesn't hurt anyone.

 

[dwiggin3]

I missed the first 30 seconds of this segment on TV, but got the gist and I'm very interested in the entire saga.

Spirit - I could NOT have put it any better than you did in your OP. Very, Very nicely done!

Soogar - While I can appreciate the frustration you have and I suspect others have about Agosto "seeking a foreign skater", I think we need to realize that sport is international, and whether we like it or not, Ice Dancing has only improved in quality because of these international pairings. (We can debate all day about the new scoring and how much improved dance had been, but honestly, without these international pairings, dance would NOT be anywhere near as exciting as it is now). While yes, it would have been nice if Agotso and camp were able to find a nice American girl and develop her talent, I'm sure that they looked long and hard in the states before looking internationally. We really can't fault Ben for wanting to find the best partner for HIM - a partner that would allow HIM to excel in dance.

I wonder what the sentiment would be if the partner Ben ended up with was say, Russian or from a country that has either dominated a sport or the US has had "issues" with...would the sentiment about their pairing and the citizenship issue be any more or less intense than it is with this US/Canadian match?:scratch: Would there be any more or less support for say, a US/Russian pairing or say, a US/France pairing? :frown2: Just food for thought.

B/A's case is unique and as such, I support the special legislation. Tanith's application was delayed due to an unforeseen national tragedy. She WOULD have had her citizenship had 9/11 not happened, so the fact that she is caught between a rock and a hard place, gives me sympathy and I support her. I don't recall what happened with the Jared and Liz but it's my understanding that they sought to block some kind of special legislation that would allow a fellow US team to fully gain citizenship and thus, potentially take what they felt was their spot at the Olympics. (Correct me if I'm wrong) In that case, I'd not support such legislation as it appeared that one member of the dance team simply did not have their application in fast enough.

On a related note, US dance has several teams competing for that third spot. Assuming that B/A take 1st and Gregory and Petukov (sp) take 2nd, the 3rd spot is wide open. It seems to me that G-R/M might have been the top pick for the 3rd spot and perhaps they felt more secure about their chances at the Oly (and less likely to raise questions about Belbin/Agosto’s citizenship plight) but with the new team of Silverstein/O'Meara skating so well at Indy Challenge (or was it in Lake Placid?) and the team of Matthews/Zavozin (is he a US citizen?) performing so well in the GP, that 3rd spot is really open. Does anyone think that with S/O and M/Z performing so well, that G-R/M feel threatened more so than they were this time last year and therefore, either they or their family feel the need to object to the special legislation? :boohoo: :boohoo:

Thoughts????

Cheers,
Darby

 

[euterpe]

If Belbin/Agosto and Matthews/Zavozin are eligible to skate in Torino, GR/M have NO chance at that third spot. Obviously, B/A will win gold at Nationals, Gregory/Petukhov will win silver, and M/Z, who had great GP results, have a good shot at bronze---it will likely go to either M/Z or Silverstein/O'Meara.

You forget that GR/M didn't compete at Nationals 2005 and were off most of last season because David had shoulder surgery. They might have been competitive with the other teams at one time, but they have lost ground.

At Cup of Russia, GR/M finished *somewhere*, behind a team who placed 19th at Worlds 2005 and another team who'd been together only a few months. They have not done as well as their competitors in the international setting.

If B/A and M/Z aren't eligible, then GR/M would only have to finish 5th to get the third spot, behind G/P and S/M. But there are a couple of teams that could beat them for the 5th spot: Navarro/Bommentre and Mallory/Holdburg. They have SOME chance with B/A and M/Z out of the way, but NO chance if the citizenship goes through.

That's why Mrs. Mitchell is trying to block the legislation. It isn't so much B/A that is the problem---it's M/Z.

STOP POSTING SPOILERS IN THIS FORUM PLEASE.

 

[dorispulaski]

Have a chance at the spot? Their chances are not great. B&A, M&Z (2 GP fourth place finishes_, and G&P (one 3rd and one 4th GP finish) are all clearly better than G-R/M. If B&A and M&Z are knocked out, that leaves 2 spots.

However, Davis and White just finished a close second to Virtue and Moir in the JGPF. I believe they will be skating seniors this year. Jamie Silverstein and Ryan O'Meara have been smokin' hot and improving every week. Steigler and Magerovsky beat G-R/M last year. Navarro and Bommentre are very charming skaters, and I far prefer them to G-R/M. I saw most of these skaters at the summer dance competition at Lake Placid.

That's 4 teams vying for 2 spots, even with no B&A and M&Z. G-R/M are not in a great position.

 

[euterpe]

Davis and White are skating Juniors this year.

 

[Frau Muller]

I Did anyone see an actual signature or just the typed names on this letter? .

Did Tonya wield the stick? Skaters *are* at least peripherally involved when members of their 'teams' take unsportsmanlike actions in hope of a better result in an upcoming sports event.

 

[swannanoa54]

Did Tonya wield the stick? Skaters *are* at least peripherally involved when members of their 'teams' take unsportsmanlike actions in hope of a better result in an upcoming sports event.

And that's just the type of thinking that makes someone guilty before they're proven innocent (except in Tonya Harding's case, she finally admitted it). Give me a break with the "unsportsmanlike" actions in this case. No one is doing anything to physically hurt anyone. And yes, it may hurt a team to write a Senator and ask for them to intervene, but what the heck did ya vote for the Senators for anyway? And most of the time, Senators do NOT intervene. They just send you a letter explaining why they can't at this time.

If people would quit calling this "special" legislation and attributing that "special" legislation to Tanith maybe it wouldn't seem as if it were only for HER. It IS "special" legislation for thousands of people, not just a couple of ice dancers. And if it doesn't go through, it doesn't go through. If it does, then I hope Tanith gets everything done in time to skate at the Olympics. I'll be cheering them on.

But you might want to look at the bills this "special" legislation becomes a part of. Is it attached to any bill that will cut funding for education, etc, because I understood that's why it didn't get through the first time.

 

[gkelly]

However, Davis and White just finished a close second to Virtue and Moir in the JGPF. I believe they will be skating seniors this year.

No, but Pratt & Gilles (who were also at the JGPF but didn't place as well) will be senior.

Steigler and Magerovsky beat G-R/M last year.

No, G-R/M didn't compete at Nationals last year. The only time those two teams have competed against each other was at Nebelhorn, where G-R/M came out ahead.

http://www.deu-event.de/results/Nebelhorn_2005/CAT004RS.HTM

 

[chuckm]

Magerovskiy doesn't have citizenship yet either.

 

[Jhar55]

I remember back when Punsalan & Swallow did that to Rocca & Sur.
Sometimes a skater has to look outside to find a compatiable partner, why should they be penalize. Tanith has gone through all the legal moves is it fair that she fell into a loop hole I don't know. Ben and Tanith is the best chance the US has to medal at Oly they don't seem to buckle un the pressure.
Lets just hope Ben recovers in time for Nationals.
I can see why the rules are they have to be legal guess the rule is to keep some countries from stacking the deck.

 

[pennyfromheaven]

I completely understand where the Mitchells are coming from. There is so much of politics involved in figure skating, we would like to think it's all about who is the best being able to go to the Olympics but there is so much more involved than that. That is naive and simplistic. It is not about that at all. It is about who was able to get lessons from the coaches with the political power to push their skaters forward. It is about skaters whose families are willing to support them at whatever the cost including moving across the country, etc. It is about money and power. Please tell me how many African American kids from the inner city ever even think of becoming skaters. In their culture that is not one of the sports they follow too much. But many of them may have the ability to become the greatest skaters of all if they were pushed in that direction as upper/middle class white kids are. Or they may want to but not have the support financially or otherwise from their families and that goes for white or Asian or whatever kids as well. The Mitchells allegedly did what they felt was necessary for their child to go to the Olympics; the same as the Belbins and the Agostos are doing. I see nothing wrong with that, what is ok for one should be ok for the other. Personally I hope Tanith and Ben do not get the special approval/treatment. I hope Tanith is not granted special citizenship in time for the Olys. Everything is not about who can get a friggin medal for their country, there should be much more to it than that.

 

[gezando]

B&A are USA's best hope for an olympic dance medal at Torino if she is granted citizenship.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Well, if this legislation doesn't pass then M/Z can't compete either, basically killing two birds with one stone for G-R/M.

Without B/A and M/Z being eligible, then Gregory/Petukhov(who will win silver at Nationals) will go to the Olympics along with Silverstein/O'Meara(who, I personally think will place fourth behind M/Z). Will G-R/M be the third team?? Who knows.

I can see the Mitchell's point, although I ultimately think they should just mind their own business. It is obvious their motive has nothing to do with what is supposedly "right" and everything to do with their own desire to go to the Olympics by using persuasion to knock a better team out of the running for a spot on the team.

What I don't understand is why they would want to go to the Olympics anyway without truly feeling that they had earned the spot as one of the top 3 teams in the US. What exactly would they have to show for that anyway? I just can't see how anyone can be truly fulfilled knowing that if they didn't pull outside strings it never would have happened anyway since they don't seem to be able to earn the spot based on their own ability.