Phil Hersh article on Kwan- says she needs a miracle

[R.D.]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13392220.htm

Do I agree? Yes. But if ANYONE can do it, I believe MK can.

I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet.

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

All I can say to people who have been praying for miracles are two words:

Nancy Kerrigan

 

[kyla2]

Opinion

Nancy Kerrigan didn't come even close to sustaining the kind of injury Michelle has. Nancy's was as a result of sudden trauma without significant injury to the knee (swelling, inflammation and pain). She was able to rehab and resume training quickly. Michelle has a much bigger problem on her hands. She has been complaining of back pain for awhile, which could be related to her hip issues. Her hip injury, which has probably been developing for a long period of time, was so bad she "couldn't get out of the bath tub" without help. So here we have a major joint issue, developing over a period of time, and even impacting her activities of daily living. Forget the fact that she skates. Injuries like this take a long time to heal, and there is no guarantee that once it does heal, that she won't re-injure the joint when she tries to resume her practices/competitions. Chances are that it will flare up again, and soon. The best thing she can do for that hip is not skate. I feel terrible for her. She is in a very bad situation and as she said, she can only do what she can do. I think that showing up at Marshall's was a major accomplishment, but time will tell what she can do in the month that is left.

 

[rob43]

well I think we all know her work is cut out for her- but to that article- MEOW!!!

I think doing that level of performance on 2 weeks practice leaves hopes for a much better showing after 2 months (as I'm pretty confident Kwan would be petitioneed onto the team if she shows improvement and any hope of getting cloer to form by the end of February.)

If she gets back her basics that alone may save her under COP for Nats.

 

[Kelly22]

Sounds like the same type hip injury that plagued Yagudin, ultimately causing an earlier than desired retirement from competition. Very sad for Michelle. It makes the insipid judging format (and comments) of Marshall's even harder to think about. Obviously it was a huge feat for her to be there at all.

 

[BronzeisGolden]

From the title, I thought it was going to be one of those gripey Phil Hersh articles that I hate. But, this was nicely written and pretty spot on in regards to this situation. She is coming to the end, but there is still a little more that she wants to do. Truthfully speaking, none of us know the entire truth behind the injury. She looked shakey and off, but I was glad to see that the fight was still there. If that had been missing, I would have been very worried. Her SP performance wasn't spectacular, but honestly, I enjoyed it. I honestly think she is headed absolutely in the right direction in terms of design-for-COP. The elements weren't strong, but who expected them to be? It is plainly evident that she has been working on the right things. So, if Michelle and and her body are willing....I expect that we will see her again (and in better form) this season. If not, so be it. But, none of us can know for certain what will happen. I am putting all of my best thoughts and wishes in place behind her.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yeah. Phil has the proper outlook for the Kwan's future.

For me, Michelle reached a gorgeous peak back in 98 and continued to maintain that peak through 2003. But in those 5 years she did not do anything to go beyond what she had already accomplished. There was no attempt during this peak period to speed up her spins and no attempt to go beyond a 3tx3t, if that. She continued to win many medals of gold and silver without going beyond what she had already accomplished. Her legions of fan continued to adore her. Then came the CoP. It is difficult for me to believe that she was so surprised in Moscow that her game was not up to par with current standards.

I think she did attempt in the summer to up the ante on her tech, and she got a new choreogapher. Things were looking like she was going to get at least par on current standards. Again, I am just speculating that the work to up the ante probably hurt further an already very bruised hip.

Her hip is better? That's a value judgement. It probably is better than it was two months ago, but is it better enough to skate Senior Ladies in the Olympics and expect a medal?

Not from what I saw last Sunday. A miracle will be needed, and if it doesn't start happending at Nationals, it wont happen in Torino. JMO

Joe

 

[euterpe]

Yagudin's hip injury was due to a congenitally deformed hip socket. The constant jarring impact of quads and 3As caused the bone to deteriorate and eventually start to disintegrate.

Kwan's injury is to the tendons, not the same thing at all.

 

[swannanoa54]

Kwan already has become what she dreamed of, a legend in the sport. Nothing she does this season will diminish her career, remarkable for longevity at the highest level, for achievement, for the way she has handled success and disappointment, for well-deserved popularity greater than that of any woman in the history of figure skating.
Although no one wants to see her struggle again as vainly as she did in Boston, she should be lauded, not criticized, for trying to compete in a third Olympics.

I didn't find this so bad especially from Hersh. While so many throughout the figure skating boards are criticizing Kwan and saying she should retire, etc., I have to agree with Hersh. She should be "lauded" for "trying" to compete. That's the bottom line. And if it takes a miracle on ice, hey, it happened for our 1980 Hockey team!!!!

 

[attyfan]

I think that Michelle showed two things at Marshall's. One is the genuineness of her injury. The other is that she has made great strides towards skating under the CoP, and, if healthy, her program would (probably) be very CoP friendly. At the very least, if (G-d forbid) she has to retire, it should be clear to any but the most flagrant that she is, and has no need to be, afraid of the NJS -- and, if worst does come to worst, Michelle will have gone down fighting.

 

[cianni]

AttyFan

I would say when any athlete retires due to injury they are not going down fighting but bowing out gracefully with dignity and respect both for the sport and themselves. Words can be positive or negative and retiring with dignity and going down fighting isnt the same for me. I hope she heals and at least finishes the season and if not lets all know she knows she is injured and her body now says NO and she respects herself enough to listen. She has nothing to prove and will leave with more fans and public love and support then any skater in history. So we wait and wonder and hope.

 

[antmanb]

Yeah. Phil has the proper outlook for the Kwan's future.

For me, Michelle reached a gorgeous peak back in 98 and continued to maintain that peak through 2003. But in those 5 years she did not do anything to go beyond what she had already accomplished. There was no attempt during this peak period to speed up her spins and no attempt to go beyond a 3tx3t, if that. She continued to win many medals of gold and silver without going beyond what she had already accomplished.

I'm surprised by the above comment regarding Kwan doing nothing to go beyond what she accomplished between 1998 and 2003. Presuming you mean technically since in terms of titles the only thing she's missing is an Olympic Gold Medal. In terms of presentation (as it was under 6.0) she really got her speed up in her basic skating and i think choreographically upped the ante e.g. Song of the black swan, east of eden, the feeling begins.

So technically i think there were improvements. In the jumps alone check your tapes in 1998 for height and flow and then compare them to 2003 and beyond - I think she (by working with Scott Williams and later Rafaul Arutunian) really improved the flow into and out of the jumps, the height on the jumps and i really notice the difference in the height of the second jumps in combinations. She may not have gone beyond attempting 3T/3Ts but the quality of her jumps got better IMHO. Her consistency with the jump started to decline after 2002, however the quality of the ones she did do imporved and she never took out the two triple lutzes with the second lutz being the last or second to last elements compared to a lot of the ladies who don't even risk a second triple lutz.

In terms of her spins: again check your tapes to compare the spins in 1998 and then the ones in 2003, i personally think they do look faster, she changed her layback to the crescent moon type layback which was faster than the traditional layback, she managed to get both her flying camels and deathdrops faster the latter i think improved because in the past her back sit was noticeably slower than her front sit but i think she did improve the speed of it.

While there weren't the kind of leaps and bounds improvements that you see in new younger skaters in such a short space of time (such as kwan herself had back in the early/mid 90s) i think there are marked improvements in her technical abilities between 1998 and 2003.

Ant

 

[Dee4707]

I would say when any athlete retires due to injury they are not going down fighting but bowing out gracefully with dignity and respect both for the sport and themselves. Words can be positive or negative and retiring with dignity and going down fighting isnt the same for me. I hope she heals and at least finishes the season and if not lets all know she knows she is injured and her body now says NO and she respects herself enough to listen. She has nothing to prove and will leave with more fans and public love and support then any skater in history. So we wait and wonder and hope.

Your comments made me think of aging people who go through many changing processes in their lives. Like the younger people who think they are invincible in their teens and early 20's. 30 year old people are settling down, 40's life experiences are changing and over 50 body changes make things sometimes more difficult. Here we have a 20 year old woman whose body may be telling her I can't do it anymore. This is very traumatic at times!! Some people say they are not going to let that happen but you can't fight it.

I was at Skate Canada when Alexei announced his retirement and it was very sad. Here was a person who had to retire, not that he wanted to. He struggled with even saying the words.

Dee

 

[attyfan]

I would say when any athlete retires due to injury they are not going down fighting but bowing out gracefully with dignity and respect both for the sport and themselves. Words can be positive or negative and retiring with dignity and going down fighting isnt the same for me. I hope she heals and at least finishes the season and if not lets all know she knows she is injured and her body now says NO and she respects herself enough to listen. She has nothing to prove and will leave with more fans and public love and support then any skater in history. So we wait and wonder and hope.

What I meant by "going down fighting" isn't Michelle vs. injury but Michelle vs. CoP. There is a big difference, IMO, between an athlete unwilling to adapt and one who has "fought the good fight" to adapt, but, due to injury, is unable to do so. Marshall's has demonstrated that it isn't the CoP that might force her out.

 

[cianni]

Atty Fan

Point taken. I dont think COP has that much to do with it. Im not sure what adjusting to COP means. What I see is the skaters that are doing great with COP are Irina doing a Bielman spin every other move and skating as she always did. Sasha doing OH look at me my leg is in the air and Im flexable using the same moves she has always done. Arakawa does the doughnut spin so many times and a poor Bielman yet skates the same as she always has. I watched the other skaters as well, love Fumie but she skates the same. I grant you the skaters are doing point moves but no one is doing anything different. I watched the ladies to see what it was all about and I find the skaters boring as h-ll every program is the same and I know exactly what they are going to do because thats all there is to do. Every spin is the same or a variation of the same. Im bielman disgusted, the spins all look the same coming to a crawl for the most part. The programs are sloppy careless mistake ridden for the most part and a clean program is a treat. Can you tell Im not at all impressed with COP or the skaters being forced to clone themselves for points. Im old fashioned in my belief if your going to do it DO IT RIGHT. That doesnt matter slop skating is the winner. A judge said to me it doesnt matter how you do it as long as your on your feet. Michelle will do what is right for her and I will take her skating any time compared to the new way the sport is going. This is more about the direction the sport is going then Michelle. I would venture to say if she does it ,it will be done right.

 

[SailorGalaxia518]

Even Kristi Yamaguchi believes that Michelle Kwan can pull off a miracle

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm surprised by the above comment regarding Kwan doing nothing to go beyond what she accomplished between 1998 and 2003. Presuming you mean technically since in terms of titles the only thing she's missing is an Olympic Gold Medal. In terms of presentation (as it was under 6.0) she really got her speed up in her basic skating and i think choreographically upped the ante e.g. Song of the black swan, east of eden, the feeling begins.

That's exactly what I am talking about it was her technical. Her presentations were always special and up to 2003 had many moves in the field, and connecting steps into the bigger elements. However, in 2002 just before the Olys, she dropped Frank for her father; and subsequently dropped Lori. What was going on at this late stage? I'm sure there is an answer to that question but knowing Kwan as we do, we will never get an explanation for those events leading up to 2002 Olys. This was a very dark period in her skating career for me. I thought for sure, she would retire because Irina was beginning to come on strong with the tech and I thought oh dear, shades of Lipinski.

So technically i think there were improvements. In the jumps alone check your tapes in 1998 for height and flow and then compare them to 2003 and beyond - I think she (by working with Scott Williams and later Rafaul Arutunian) really improved the flow into and out of the jumps, the height on the jumps and i really notice the difference in the height of the second jumps in combinations. She may not have gone beyond attempting 3T/3Ts but the quality of her jumps got better IMHO. Her consistency with the jump started to decline after 2002, however the quality of the ones she did do imporved and she never took out the two triple lutzes with the second lutz being the last or second to last elements compared to a lot of the ladies who don't even risk a second triple lutz.[/QUOTE]
All this is true. Both Williams and Arutunian brought her jumps back after a bad decline following the 02 Olys, and made them solid and even better. But she had lost to two lesser skaters in two previous Olys because of 3x3s which she didn't have since 98 (and she didn't use it then. OK I know about the toe, but the toe healed and it should have been back in 99.) there was time in 2000 (Williams) and 2003 (Arutunian) to work on the 3x3s. If they did, I never saw it. I do believe now that the hip problems started back in 2000 or earlier because from the years after 2002, one can see her moves in the field disappearing from the competitions, and to the present time limiting loop jumps which are tough on the hip to begin with. She was having a tough time of it but not looking for sympathy. Typical Kwan.

In terms of her spins: again check your tapes to compare the spins in 1998 and then the ones in 2003, i personally think they do look faster, she changed her layback to the crescent moon type layback which was faster than the traditional layback, she managed to get both her flying camels and deathdrops faster the latter i think improved because in the past her back sit was noticeably slower than her front sit but i think she did improve the speed of it.

Let's face it Kwan never had exceptional spins. She was a jumper. I think the crescent layback came because the 'attitude' layback was a problem with the bum hip. Her spins improved with Arutunian but they were basic camels and sits. Spins I personally prefer to the convoluted spins of today but those convoluted spins get the points in CoP. I agree they are better and somewhat faster.

While there weren't the kind of leaps and bounds improvements that you see in new younger skaters in such a short space of time (such as kwan herself had back in the early/mid 90s) i think there are marked improvements in her technical abilities between 1998 and 2003.
Ant

Kwan had a glorious skate in 2003 Worlds. It was a skate had she done a year earlier in SLC or 5 years earlier in Nagano she would have had 2 gold Olympic medals. That 2003 skate was brilliance personified. Dortmund and Moscow were excellent presentations, but the tech was not up there with the competition. In the first instance, 3x3s; in the second instance CoP.

I'm still with Hirsh on this. That injury has been detrimental to her competitive career for quite some time now, and unfortunately, it is not a healing injury but a recurrent one.

Joe

 

[millie]

We all know that Michelle, at one time, was one of and probablly the best figure skater in the world. I was thinking, that if her hip heals and she can get back into a strong training regiment, with what she has learned and her techniques from before, honestly, I think that she will give the other skaters a run for their money. Do you think it's possible.

 

[kyla2]

ITA With Joe

ITA totally with EVERYTHING you said Joe. Truer words were never spoken. She has been dealing with this for sometime. The best thing for her hip would be to stop skating for the rest of the season and see if she can really get her injury to heal. I suspect she is going to keep on trying though because she feels this is her last chance at Nationals and the Olympics. I really respect her for even trying; that takes alot of guts. I also suspect she isn't taking pain medic. (which is probably not o.k. with the ISU) or steroids. It is said that her mother isn't into traditional medications and is more into Chinese medicine in general (which I am not knocking). Michelle is such a totally admirable person.