Piseev on future of Russian skating

[Ptichka]

http://www.allsport.ru/index.php?id=5472

[size=-1] April 13, 2007 12:37 Figure skating[/size]

[size=+2]Skating coaches wrote to Piseev, outlining what they need to prepare Olympic champions of 2010[/size]

Russian Figure skating federation president Valentin Piseev got back from a short business trip to Saint Petersburg where he discussed with coaches plans and conditions for preparation for the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver. Valentin Piseev himself told sports information Agency “All Sport” about the details.

“The trip to Petersburg was very useful”, admitted Valentin Piseev. “I met all the coaches who are working in that wonderful city preparing athletes for the Russian national team – Tamara Nikolayevna Moskvina, Alexei Nikolayevich Mishin, Oleg Vasiliev, Alexei Urmanov… We are not theorizing on whether Russian figure skating has died, continues to live, or is resurrecting. We have a specific goal – to have four medals for 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver, among them two golds. We discussed the conditions necessary to make that happen. I’ve asked the coaches ahead of time to write down what they and their students need, beginning with salaries and living conditions, continuing to the ice and practice camps, all the way to costumes and the services of choreographers, program creators, masseurs, and others. They took my request very seriously, and itemized everything. Now I’m sitting here, counting it all. Of course, the sum is not at all small. One simple example is the ice dance team costumes. They need at least eight or nine for each season! Both partners need one for compulsory, original, free, and exhibition dances! Can you imagine how it all adds up?! We’re doing this primarily to understand the size of necessary financing. Also to stop the talks about figure skaters getting all the necessary conditions, while they’re continuing to lose. Right now, I’ve requested the coaches of Moscow and Greater Moscow to prepare the necessary conditions. Then, I’ll pass all the numbers up to all possible instances – Rossport, Russian Olympic committee, Winter sports association, and regional sports organizations. It is already clear that no one organization can carry this financial burden alone. We’ll have to figure out how to spread it out. What’s important is that our sports leaders have both the understand of the problems, and the drive to help solve them. I’ve discussed the current situation in detail with Leonid Vasilievich Tyagachev, Vladimir Igorevich Kozhin, and my colleagues in Rossport have arranged a meeting with Vyacheslav Alexandrovich Fetisov. I’m sure that together, we’ll solve all problems.”

Valentin Piseev also said that he was heartened by the Russian coaches’ mood. “Oleg Vasiliev very calmly and diligently outlined the plan for the team Mukhortova/ Trankov. He said the guys will win medals at 2009 Worlds, and will compete for gold at the 2010 Olympics. I’m not even talking about the goals that our masters Moskvina and Mishin are setting! For them, only first place exists!”, said Valentin Piseev.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Thank you, Ptichka!

It's interesting that Vassiliev thinks M/T can compete for gold. When T/M became one of the top two teams after SLC, two of the teams ahead of them, S/P and B/S retired; they were already ahead of all the other teams, except the one Chinese team at the time that was dominant, Shen/Zhao.

Now, as Velikov said in the other interview you translated, there are four great teams at the top: Pang/Tong, Zhang/Zhang, Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Volosozhar/Morozov (who can only get better), and all of whom should be through 2010. Then there are the North American teams, but I think only Dube/Davison of the North Americans will be left standing in 2010 between M/T and the podium. (I think Vassiliev, with any measure of success, will have M/T pass Langlois/Hay.)

To get gold in 2010, M/T will have to surpass D/D, Kawaguchi/Smirnov, and possibly other Russian pairs, like Efaeiva/Menshikov, who have enormous potential, even before they can try to break the lockjam of the top four. This isn't a jump from second in 2002 Worlds to gold in Torino. And, he doesn't have two ambitious people like Totmianina/Marinin, who trained single-mindedly away from their family and friends for a common goal, and who had something to prove to all of the coaches who turned them down. Murkhortova/Trankov has trained with the top Russian coaches, and have been coddled by comparison.

Now, 2014 could be a different story.

 

[chuckm]

I think the two golds are Plushenko and Dom/Shabs. The other two medals? Maybe Kawaguchi/Smirnov. I think the 4th medal may also be in ice dance (Khokhlova/Novitski). I don't see the Russians winning a medal in Ladies in this Olympic cycle, or another medal in Men's either. The only possible exception is Artur Gachinsky, who at this point is 13 and won't be eligible to compete at Worlds until the 2008-2009 season. But Artur didn't even finish in the top 6 at Junior Nationals this year.

As for two medals in Ice Dance, lots of luck. The competition in that discipline is going to be fierce for the next 3 years. K/N aren't youngsters (21 and almost 26) and have already been passed by two younger teams (D/W and V/M). None of the younger Russian ice dance teams have been all that promising either.

 

[gkelly2]

I think the two golds are Plushenko and Dom/Shabs.

I think and i am pretty sure Dom/Sha won't win the gold at the 2010 OG. I believe that V/M will do that

 

[Ptichka]

I think the two golds are Plushenko and Dom/Shabs. The other two medals? Maybe Kawaguchi/Smirnov.

Personally, I do not believe Piseev himself believes in what he's saying. It's just spin-spin-spin to keep him a$$ in his cushy job!

 

[chuckm]

I think and i am pretty sure Dom/Sha won't win the gold at the 2010 OG. I believe that V/M will do that

I didn't say that Dom/Shabs would win gold---I just said that's who Piseev considers a possible gold candidate. I am not sure V/M are a shoo-in either. There will be plenty of competition from B/A and D/W in addition to DomShabs.

 

[gkelly2]

I didn't say that Dom/Shabs would win gold---I just said that's who Piseev considers a possible gold candidate. I am not sure V/M are a shoo-in either. There will be plenty of competition from B/A and D/W in addition to DomShabs.

I see, IMO V/M have the biggest chances from D/W B/A and Dom/S
But i agree with you..Piseev hopes obviously differ from the reality

 

[gio]

First of all thanks for all three of the translations, Ptichka!!!

What about Daria Grinkova?? Could she be the future of Russian skating? How old is she? Is she competing as a Novice?

 

[rain]

His count of four potential medals is interesting. I don't think he can realistically be expecting anything in ladies. Plushenko, in mens, is likely one he's thinking of. I think they'd be hard-pressed to put another Russian man on the podium with him though. He's likely also thinking of Dom/Shab in dance, though I think gold will be a tall order. I would not bet on Russia putting two teams on the podium at all. That would be highly unlikely given B/A, D/W and V/M, plus whoever else may stick around from the top 4. It is not outside the realm of possibility for a Russian pairs team to hit the podium, but there's a lot of work to be done and a packed field, even without S/Z.

Hence, I have to say the idea of four medals is VERY optimistic. But it's interesting that it sounds like they may well be ready to fund figure skating to try to get it back on track. I wonder if any of that will trickle down to the lower ranks where, presumably, champions for the next era will come from.

 

[alicelouise]

Things aren't that bad

Why are the Russians acting as if a world ending catastrophe has happened? There are many countries that have never won a medal in Figure skating at the World Championships or the Olympics. Even successful teams have to rebuild as well

The USA had the 1961 plane crash. The structure of US figure skating was altered forever. The US went without World medals for many years after that. They did come back.

The Russian situation seems analogous to the US Gymnastic situation after 1996. There were no worthy successors to the Mag 7 of 1996. Some of the old team had to be called out of retirement to put the US in the top 6 teams of the 2000 Olympics. The rest of the story is that in 2004, the USA had the mens' and Womens all around champions. It was an 8 year rebuilding phase.

Getting back to skating, the US had two recent medalless World Championships 1993 and 1994. You know what happened afterwards. Nobody put the RIP stone on US figure skating during those years. I'm sure that the Russians shouldn't be doing it for thier program either.

 

[doubleaxel]

The only possible exception is Artur Gachinsky, who at this point is 13 and won't be eligible to compete at Worlds until the 2008-2009 season. But Artur didn't even finish in the top 6 at Junior Nationals this year.

Actually, Artur finished 14th at the SENIOR nationals this year, which, I think is a pretty significant accomplishment for someone who just turned 13 at that time. He had landed a clean triple axel in his long program, along with perfect triple lutz, flip, loop, and salchow. His skating style and jump technique remind me a lot of Plushenko, and no wonder since they were both trained by the ingenious Mishin.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I think the two golds are Plushenko and Dom/Shabs. The other two medals? Maybe Kawaguchi/Smirnov. I think the 4th medal may also be in ice dance (Khokhlova/Novitski). I don't see the Russians winning a medal in Ladies in this Olympic cycle, or another medal in Men's either. The only possible exception is Artur Gachinsky, who at this point is 13 and won't be eligible to compete at Worlds until the 2008-2009 season. But Artur didn't even finish in the top 6 at Junior Nationals this year.

As for two medals in Ice Dance, lots of luck. The competition in that discipline is going to be fierce for the next 3 years. K/N aren't youngsters (21 and almost 26) and have already been passed by two younger teams (D/W and V/M). None of the younger Russian ice dance teams have been all that promising either.

I pretty much agree with your accessment. Plushenko and Domnina/Shabalin are the possible gold medal winners for Russia in 2010, neither are certain by any stretch of the imagination IMO, but definite possibilities.

I am not entirely sure how many other hopes, of any color medal, outside of them there are though. I am not sure if Totmianina/Marinin will return or not, there are rumours from time to time they might, but nothing too concrete as of yet. Obviously if they do they are a major contender for gold though.

Khokhlova/Novitski were just beaten by Moir/Virtue and Davis/White at this years Worlds as you said. Given the age difference and senior inexperience of those two teams, I see that as curtains for their future medal prospects. In addition the Russian federation will likely put all their support behind Domnina/Shabalin to try and get them gold, and they will likely push for support by promising other countries with a top team a placing or even possible medal, at the expense of Khokhlova/Novitski.

Kawaguchi/Smirnov? I suppose it a possibility. They show promise for being so new. They will have a big challenge vs Pang/Tong, Zhang/Zhang, Savchenko/Szokoly, and probably Dube/Davison, by the time of the next Olympics. Is it even possible Shen/Zhou return by then? If Totmianina/
Marinin return that increase Russia's medal likelihood, but also further diminishes the chances of Kawaguchi/Smirnov.

Murkhortova/Trankov have failed to impress international judges in the least since competing in senior competition. I dont even think of their position on the Russian team as secure so why Piseev is high on them as possible gold medalists in 2010 is beyond me.

Medal possabilities in singles, outside of Plushenko, I see little hope. A couple of the juniors or young skaters they have in the mens event, are in a couple cases pretty good with some promise, but I highly doubt a potential medal winner in 2010.

 

[chuckm]

First of all thanks for all three of the translations, Ptichka!!!

What about Daria Grinkova?? Could she be the future of Russian skating? How old is she? Is she competing as a Novice?

Daria Grinkova is 14. She competed at 2007 US New England Regionals as an Intermediate, but didn't make it out of the qualifying round.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I can't realistically see any Russian man on the podium in 2010? Tomas Verner is becoming a force to be reckoned with, Brian Joubert, Diasuke Takahashi, Nobunari Oda, Stephane Lambiel, and Johnny Weir added to the equation. Plushenko, blah! He's nothing exciting anymore, he hasn't excited me since 2002. But, he would be Russia's only chance of getting on the men's podium.

Andrei Griazev had enormous potential, there is still a bit of hope there.
Sergei Voronov, Alexander Uspenski, Sergei Dobrin, and Andrei Lutai also have great potential. Russian skating is not dead.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I can't realistically see any Russian man on the podium in 2010? Tomas Verner is becoming a force to be reckoned with, Brian Joubert, Diasuke Takahashi, Nobunari Oda, Stephane Lambiel, and Johnny Weir added to the equation. Plushenko, blah! He's nothing exciting anymore, he hasn't excited me since 2002. But, he would be Russia's only chance of getting on the men's podium.

Andrei Griazev had enormous potential, there is still a bit of hope there.
Sergei Voronov, Alexander Uspenski, Sergei Dobrin, and Andrei Lutai also have great potential. Russian skating is not dead.

Thomas Verner had a great Worlds, and has been progressing nicely, but still has a bit more to prove that he is a major threat. Even though he finished over Lysacek and Oda for example at Worlds, those guys you would still pick to finish over him in any event they were in together probably.

Weir has a long way to go to prove he is a real contender again.

Lambiel is becoming more of a question mark all the time with injuries and up and down motivation to train and compete.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As for two medals in Ice Dance, lots of luck. The competition in that discipline is going to be fierce for the next 3 years. K/N aren't youngsters (21 and almost 26) and have already been passed by two younger teams (D/W and V/M). None of the younger Russian ice dance teams have been all that promising either.

I think the new era of dance has begun and the old Russian schtick of sour faces throughout the dance will not sell with the brave new non-Russian judges.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Why are the Russians acting as if a world ending catastrophe has happened? There are many countries that have never won a medal in Figure skating at the World Championships or the Olympics.

\
The Russians were big winners in Figure Skating for quite some time. They did not go down with a whimper but with a bang. It was more political than artistical. It was an easy life for the coaches and skaters under the Soviet system. They don't have that anymore. It's a huge adjustment which they have to deal with.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

Murkhortova/Trankov have failed to impress international judges in the least since competing in senior competition. I dont even think of their position on the Russian team as secure so why Piseev is high on them as possible gold medalists in 2010 is beyond me.

It was Vasiliev (their coach) who predicted them for a podium finish in 2009 and competing for gold in 2010. I don't think they have the temperament to work like Totmianina/Marinin. Trankov has a temper and a temperament, and it sounds like she's going to have to develop a thick skin for them to progress and last.

 

[onice]

\
The Russians were big winners in Figure Skating for quite some time. They did not go down with a whimper but with a bang. It was more political than artistical. It was an easy life for the coaches and skaters under the Soviet system. They don't have that anymore. It's a huge adjustment which they have to deal with.

Joe

But Russians still can impress judges by their great choreography , feeling of music and dance, the are so artistic, if they correct technical mistakes their hopes are not so groundless. Everybody can jump, but only rare people are artists of ice

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

But Russians still can impress judges by their great choreography , feeling of music and dance, the are so artistic, if they correct technical mistakes their hopes are not so groundless. Everybody can jump, but only rare people are artists of ice

Definitely and they are all expatriots in different countries doing just that and making money. They are not in Russia. That is the problem the article is talking about.

As for artistry, that is in the eye of the beholder. It's not judgeable.

Joe