I'm simply stating what I think would happen if they left. And I said immediately afterward (which you seemed to leave out of the quote):
That said, though, I'm not particularly in a hurry to push them out.
Preparing for the 2010 Olympics - Top Contenders
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
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I'm simply stating what I think would happen if they left. And I said immediately afterward (which you seemed to leave out of the quote):
That said, though, I'm not particularly in a hurry to push them out.
Jv means Junior Varisty. The point is that without Kim/Asada/Rochette/Ando (Kostner is hit and miss) the quality of ladies skating will go way down.. I seriously don't think a world podium of
Flatt
Lepisto
(who was seventh Suguri, Leonova)
is good for the sport. No way are these skaters going to wow the crowds or the viewers. Of course if these skaters improve, we have a different story.)
Here's hoping for the sake of skating that Kim and Asada don't retire until people come along who are worthy to carry their mantle.
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- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Doris, wonderful post about the dance teams. Just for the heck of it, what do you think the Kerrs and Capellini/Lanotte should work on? I want to see them move up!
And what kind of sport wants to eliminate the possibility of champions with longevity and well deserved fame for the sake of sharing the excitement? (Answer: an elementary school sport.)
In the end, if Cohen or Kwan could come back and triumph, it would only be good for the sport, and if the younger Ladies can't beat them, well, shame on them.
OTOH, if the returnees can't cut the mustard, I just hope they figure it out early on. What Alissa must be going through is slight compared to what Kwan or Cohen would go through if they ended up underperforming at the Olympics.
Hear, hear. I don't like the idea of pushing people out because they've had their turn. Elite sports are not about giving turns to younguns, they're about winning!becalc said:
And what kind of sport wants to eliminate the possibility of champions with longevity and well deserved fame for the sake of sharing the excitement? (Answer: an elementary school sport.)
In the end, if Cohen or Kwan could come back and triumph, it would only be good for the sport, and if the younger Ladies can't beat them, well, shame on them.
OTOH, if the returnees can't cut the mustard, I just hope they figure it out early on. What Alissa must be going through is slight compared to what Kwan or Cohen would go through if they ended up underperforming at the Olympics.
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then you'd better hope that Kim doesn't win the Olympics...
Actually, I can see one or the other retiring, but probably not both. Asada I could see sticking around until 2014, actually. But she's definitely beatable at this point.
They need to know that BEFORE they commit to the Olympic Games. Have officials monitor their practices, etc. And seriously, they'd only have, what...Skate America as international exposure (if invited)? Then it's Nationals (and I guess the qualifying sector in the case of MK).
Injury is also a big deal for both skaters. Cohen has back/groin issues and gets sick a lot, and MK has her hip. I don't see either of them lasting long enough to have an impact, even if they WANTED to make the commitment 100%.
As for Alyssa, most people expected her to have a rough segment of the competition, anyway. The expectations for her are rather low.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Gawd, let Kwan and Cohen make up their own minds and if they qualify for the 2010 Olymics, we can check them out. With that point system, I doubt they will win over the top 4 skaters in this past Worlds. Can you see Kwan and Cohen getting more than 200 points, and dont forget, PC relates to 95% more than artistry. This is the dawning of the Age of Acquarius.
As for Skate Dance, there may have been a deal for Dom/Shabs for Worlds' gold and Khok/Nik for the Olys gold. It will be one or the other. Advice to other teams: Enjoy the experience.
IMPORTANT I presume they will not use the music of the assigned decades for the OD. I really don't want to watch all the teams be ignored for a gold medal because they did not do a One-two-three One-two-three waltz for that period of time. It was a time for syncopated rhythms which bests describes the decades, and the steps were tricky. Just not a time for nostalgic waltzes. Otherwise, Rodgers' Carousel Waltz would have fitted into the scheme as would so many other national waltzes.
I fear the syncopated era of dance music will be full of waltzes in years to come when this OD is chosen again.
As for Skate Dance, there may have been a deal for Dom/Shabs for Worlds' gold and Khok/Nik for the Olys gold. It will be one or the other. Advice to other teams: Enjoy the experience.
IMPORTANT I presume they will not use the music of the assigned decades for the OD. I really don't want to watch all the teams be ignored for a gold medal because they did not do a One-two-three One-two-three waltz for that period of time. It was a time for syncopated rhythms which bests describes the decades, and the steps were tricky. Just not a time for nostalgic waltzes. Otherwise, Rodgers' Carousel Waltz would have fitted into the scheme as would so many other national waltzes.
I fear the syncopated era of dance music will be full of waltzes in years to come when this OD is chosen again.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Let us hope that when 20's,30's & 40's is used again that "waltz" is specifically forbidden.
Kerrs- I totally love the Kerrs!!!
One thing they need to do is stay with Platov! He made sure that they arrived at Skate America in shape, and prepared to skate their programs. This is something they never did in past years. When you saw them at Euros, you'd say, where did this wonderful team come from??? I didn't notice them in the GP...and when you looked back at their earlier event scores for the season, you could see it was because they did not score well and skated poorly in their first event, a little better in their second event, but they never made the podium in the GP until this year (2 third places, and third at Euros!). That is all due to new discipline and commitment to training. The result of bad rankings is that ice dance is partially a game of expectations. A bad fall GP season means a couple points off your CD and the judges don't catch up with the improvement until the FD, and by that time, you're mired way down in the standings. I can't stress that enough for them...arrive in October in tiptop shape. Their strengths are unique programs and a lot of commitment to the program when they skate. They had my very favorite folk OD last year I don't know what they'll do this year -- it's too bad that they used up the Scottish dance for a non-Olympic season, but who knew the ISU would do folk again so soon. However, catching the "character of the dance" is a strength of theirs. They did it again with 40's Lindy Hop & Swing again this year.
They are a team that has had trouble with CD's, and I'm sure Platov will continue to make them work very hard on the CD's, especially since both the Tango Romantica & the Golden Waltz are both very difficult. They need to continue to work on their twizzles. They both & John famously have lots of trouble with twizzles. Platov has them doing mirror twizzles to conceal the lack of unison in twizzles, but you can't hide everything. Also they need to work on matching leg lines, and unison in general, and on John's feet, which aren't that tidy, particularly in footwork. I'd like to see them with some new lifts, as they do some lift recycling as well. (that handstand lift is in both the OD & FD for example).
I'd never think to suggest what they should skate to--their choices are wonderful, and I'd rather be surprised!!!
Capellini & Lanotte - are another team that have to wait for the number one team to retire. This year they worked like crazy to do better than F&S, but still finished behind them even with F&S falling in the OD. It has to be very discouraging for them. British Eurosport absolutely adores this team, even when they are not skating very well, as in the OD at Worlds, mostly because A: they're young B: Anna is gorgeous.
Somewhat, I think they peak at the wrong time, but opposite of the Kerrs. They seemed much better to me at Cup of China than here at the end of the season. They should perhaps pace themselves a bit more. I think there is also a speed and power issue here, too. They also lose touch with the character of the dance from time to time. She smiled all the way through the paso, plus had odd headrolls. Not a good idea.
Do you know the old original shaggy dog story? After a bunch of contests, the old man's shaggy dog is finally at the Worlds Shaggy Dog contest, having won all the qualifiers. And the the first judge says that's a shaggy dog. The second judge says, "That's a very shaggy dog." The third judge then says, "Nah, that's not a shaggy dog at all." You don't want to get to worlds and discover that your little paso character trick gets the judges thinking that's not a paso at all. It happened this year to K&N, and to a lesser extent to C&L, I think.
C&L will definitely move up after the older couples retire. I'm thinking DelSchoes and B&A will retire after the Olympics. It's possible DomShabs will retire too. Maybe V&M, if they win gold. So 3 or 4 teams will be gone, and that would move C&L up to 6th.
Kerrs- I totally love the Kerrs!!!
One thing they need to do is stay with Platov! He made sure that they arrived at Skate America in shape, and prepared to skate their programs. This is something they never did in past years. When you saw them at Euros, you'd say, where did this wonderful team come from??? I didn't notice them in the GP...and when you looked back at their earlier event scores for the season, you could see it was because they did not score well and skated poorly in their first event, a little better in their second event, but they never made the podium in the GP until this year (2 third places, and third at Euros!). That is all due to new discipline and commitment to training. The result of bad rankings is that ice dance is partially a game of expectations. A bad fall GP season means a couple points off your CD and the judges don't catch up with the improvement until the FD, and by that time, you're mired way down in the standings. I can't stress that enough for them...arrive in October in tiptop shape. Their strengths are unique programs and a lot of commitment to the program when they skate. They had my very favorite folk OD last year
I don't know what they'll do this year -- it's too bad that they used up the Scottish dance for a non-Olympic season, but who knew the ISU would do folk again so soon. However, catching the "character of the dance" is a strength of theirs. They did it again with 40's Lindy Hop & Swing again this year.They are a team that has had trouble with CD's, and I'm sure Platov will continue to make them work very hard on the CD's, especially since both the Tango Romantica & the Golden Waltz are both very difficult. They need to continue to work on their twizzles. They both & John famously have lots of trouble with twizzles. Platov has them doing mirror twizzles to conceal the lack of unison in twizzles, but you can't hide everything. Also they need to work on matching leg lines, and unison in general, and on John's feet, which aren't that tidy, particularly in footwork. I'd like to see them with some new lifts, as they do some lift recycling as well. (that handstand lift is in both the OD & FD for example).
I'd never think to suggest what they should skate to--their choices are wonderful, and I'd rather be surprised!!!
Capellini & Lanotte - are another team that have to wait for the number one team to retire. This year they worked like crazy to do better than F&S, but still finished behind them even with F&S falling in the OD. It has to be very discouraging for them. British Eurosport absolutely adores this team, even when they are not skating very well, as in the OD at Worlds, mostly because A: they're young B: Anna is gorgeous.
Somewhat, I think they peak at the wrong time, but opposite of the Kerrs. They seemed much better to me at Cup of China than here at the end of the season. They should perhaps pace themselves a bit more. I think there is also a speed and power issue here, too. They also lose touch with the character of the dance from time to time. She smiled all the way through the paso, plus had odd headrolls. Not a good idea.
Do you know the old original shaggy dog story? After a bunch of contests, the old man's shaggy dog is finally at the Worlds Shaggy Dog contest, having won all the qualifiers. And the the first judge says that's a shaggy dog. The second judge says, "That's a very shaggy dog." The third judge then says, "Nah, that's not a shaggy dog at all." You don't want to get to worlds and discover that your little paso character trick gets the judges thinking that's not a paso at all. It happened this year to K&N, and to a lesser extent to C&L, I think.
C&L will definitely move up after the older couples retire. I'm thinking DelSchoes and B&A will retire after the Olympics. It's possible DomShabs will retire too. Maybe V&M, if they win gold. So 3 or 4 teams will be gone, and that would move C&L up to 6th.
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I agree! I'm quite sure that his fellow competitors never take Evan lightly whenever they compete against him. He's always a force to be reckoned with imo - and I think, in theirs.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I sure hope the Kerrs and C/L or their coaches are reading, Doris. Your posts will also help me see the skating better. Thanks! 
Do they really have to retire? They are so young!
Points against retirement
-Will the Japanese, South Korean and Canadian federations pressure Asada, Ando, Kim and Joannie not to retire? Those countries don't have (as for now!!!) successfull junior skaters.
-There are way less possibilities in professional skating than in the 90s, when every successfull skater (with the exception of MK) wanted to retire and skate in the Mecca of FS (the United States). Now that FS is in a big crisis in the US and there are no professional competition and few professional shows, what's the point of pursuing a professional career? In Japan or Korea? Maybe, but it's not the same as in the US in the 90s and the mania will probably (I could be wrong) last until the skaters of those countries will be successfull.
-Coaching and choreographing? I may be wrong, but I think there are way too many coaches and choreographers. Maybe they should go to an emerging country (a country willing to invest in FS, to produce successfull skaters in the future) and share they knowledge. Obviously the have to be paid enough.
Points in favour
-Singing, Modelling, Acting
As for the skating quality going down, if they prematurely retire, I agree.
But there are also promising young skaters that could surprise us : Binwa Geng, Caroline Zhang, the young Russians. So there is hope.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Doris writes about Dance as nobody else can. She gives good constructive criticisms for each of the teams, but for me, I see the three top fiinishers in the CD to be on the podium as the medalists. Of course, if Barbara Fusar Poli (sp) returns, that could change.I sure hope the Kerrs and C/L or their coaches are reading, Doris. Your posts will also help me see the skating better. Thanks!
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Sadly, at Olympics, Joe, you're right. Dance gets very, very political at Olympics. I am commenting with eyes more on next year's World Championships.
I am hoping it won't so much this year.
I am hoping it won't so much this year.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
It's not just Dance, Doris. I think all the divisions are aiming for Gold, and it's a run for whatever it takes to get that gold. Aside from the prestige, the Federations see more money coming into kitty for future years.
We have to rely on Cinquanta to keep tabs on skulldugery. Just thinking that Canada may be worse off because of interfering with 2006 Olys and putting him on the spot. Do you think Cinquanta will be able to stop any chicanery before it starts?
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
It's not just Dance, Doris. I think all the divisions are aiming for Gold, and it's a run for whatever it takes to get that gold. Aside from the prestige, the Federations see more money coming into kitty for future years.
We have to rely on Cinquanta to keep tabs on skulldugery. Just thinking that Canada may be worse off because of interfering with 2006 Olys and putting him on the spot. Do you think Cinquanta will be able to stop any chicanery before it starts?
I think the answer to that is clear - Cinquanta was the main proponent of annonymous judging and he failed to investigate the alleged collusion at SLC. He clearly has no interest in having a "clean house".
Ant
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think Mr. Cinquanta is in a tough spot. He serves the pleasure of the member federations. And in fact, he was elected (over Sonia Bianchetti) by political chicanery.
The culture of the ISU is that it is the mission of every national federation to win as many medals in international competition as possible. It is the responsibility -- nay, the sacred duty -- of a national federation to play the political game behind the scenes, even as it is the responsibility of the skaters to do their best on the ice. If some national federations do not play along, the more fool they.
Even at the national and club level, there is a certain sentiment that it is a coach's duty to lobby for his skater.
Cinquanta's response to the bad publicity generated in Salt Lake City was damage control, not reform.
The culture of the ISU is that it is the mission of every national federation to win as many medals in international competition as possible. It is the responsibility -- nay, the sacred duty -- of a national federation to play the political game behind the scenes, even as it is the responsibility of the skaters to do their best on the ice. If some national federations do not play along, the more fool they.
Even at the national and club level, there is a certain sentiment that it is a coach's duty to lobby for his skater.
Cinquanta's response to the bad publicity generated in Salt Lake City was damage control, not reform.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
Japan has vry good junior skaters. (Ladies.) They have a bunch of elite skaters already like nakano and suzuki.
You mean she should try doing a program to eurodance? (Slutskaya did a Rednex - a 90s dance band - piece in 2002).
That would be really fun to watch!
But this is a territory, Mao has never explored, even in an exhibition (right?). I don't think she will try something that new in an Olympic year.
Never, say never, because if she said she wants to try something completely different, she may really surprise us.
Yagudin coached by Tarasova did an eurodance piece (Racing, or more correctly Played-A-Live by Safri Duo), but that was after he won the Olympics.
Maybe she should try something upbeat in the SP, and then do something she is more comfortable with (Chopin for example) in the LP.
My speculation is that she will do a tango piece in the SP or LP, considering the tango mania.
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- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
i think a clean mao will win, but because her programs are jam-packed with high level stuff it'll be hard to perfect.
I'm thinking a little bit more, no that upbeat music will not suite Mao at all, even in a SP! She should really do a tango, IMO!!
On the contrary Rachael Flatt should do "Meet Her at the Love Parade" (Bourne/Kratz 99 FD music) or "Open Your Mind" by Usura in the SP.
I'd like to see Caroline Zhang do "Sarabande" by Handel. Perfect for her. But also for Mao it will be ok.
Yu Na could do "Romanza".
Joannie, I have to think about.
On the contrary Rachael Flatt should do "Meet Her at the Love Parade" (Bourne/Kratz 99 FD music) or "Open Your Mind" by Usura in the SP.
I'd like to see Caroline Zhang do "Sarabande" by Handel. Perfect for her. But also for Mao it will be ok.
Yu Na could do "Romanza".
Joannie, I have to think about.
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Thanks as always for your wonderful insights on dance Doris.
If Olympics is "very very"... then what was Worlds this year? just one "very"
Sigh....:scratch:
