props in competition

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Props are just plain amateurish in a competition. We had them in the days of Pro Championships on Sunday afternoons. They soon disappeared as did the Pro contests.
How much more crossover from Stars on Ice to the competitive world do you want? rather than a competition we could have an AWARD Night with red carpet and Cojo discussing the costumes. No?

 

[beep_beep]

As I recall even Tat said the ropes are NO good. What more do we need to hear?

Because TAT is just the tech expert...

As much as most didn't like it, it wasn't cheating. Linichuk found a loophole on the rules and took advantage of it. I think it's pretty obvious that the ISU is going to address that on the next set of guidelines... (as they should)

Everybody seemed ok with DelSchoes when they used something similar...

And I still think that had Zoueva/Shpilband come up with it for V/M or D/W it would have been deemed genious

 

[Mathman]

But they used them also in Russian NAtionals and Europeans and there was a lot of discussion then but the truth is they consulted officials before using them and they said it was Ok and not against rules. So I dont know how this is cheating.

This is why I am not swayed by this argument. Just becasue they cheated and got away with it at Russian nationals, then cheated at Europeans and got away with it -- I do not see how that is an argument that cheating is a good thing.

As for consulting with ISU officials, I assune this means they ran it by Alexader Lakernik, the chairman of the Figure skating and ice dance technical committee? Whatever Lakernik might have told them, it is still cheating.

It is like entering a high jumping event in track and field, and bringing a ladder. It is like competing in any sport and enhancing your performance with steroids.

Neither am I impressed with the cleverness of Linachuk in figuring out a novel way to cheat. The Russian Olympic fencer who wired his body so that he could push a button and make the light do on to indicate a "touch" against his opponent -- I do not expect ever to see a more ingenious method of cheating. But it is still cheating.

Delobel & Schoenfelder had used scarf(?) for a lift in their 2007-08 OD, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNpwZOAIT3E

I don't think there were any complaints.

I think this is different. There are lots of folk dances where the dancers hold on to the two ends of a scarf. This is within the structure of the dance.

I do not know of any dance where the lady is trussed up like a bale of hay and the man slings her around by the bailing wire.

 

[seniorita]

This is why I am not swayed by this argument. Just becasue they cheated and got away with it at Russian nationals, then cheated at Europeans and got away with it -- I do not see how that is an argument that cheating is a good thing.

Hey, did I say cheating is a good thing??? My point was more or less like when a skater is overmarked shoot the judges not the skater. Doesn't cheating means go against the rules but not get caught? If they had asked and they got approve of that or if their coach or whoever found an open spot at the rules, I dont think they cheated. More like they found a way to cover shabalins weakness inside the rules. I dont say that I agree. But it is for Mr Chairman to answer this.
Or maybe I missed the english here of what is cheating

It is like entering a high jumping event in track and field, and bringing a ladder.

that I would like to see!!!LOL!

 

[janetfan]

I do not know of any dance where the lady is trussed up like a bale of hay and the man slings her around by the bailing wire.

I don't know of such a dance either - but it sounds like this dance would be a good way to handle some of Plushy's fans.

 

[seniorita]

You know something jntfan?You are becoming more obsessed with Plush than I will ever be. And that is worrying. I dont wanna lose my crown.

 

[janetfan]

You know something jntfan?You are becoming more obsessed with Plush than I will ever be. And that is worrying. I dont wanna lose my crown.

Your crown is safe and you can wear it proudly.

 

[seniorita]

Good. So stop mentioning Plushenko and his fans in every thread there is. There are enough already to play around.:agree:

 

[janetfan]

Good. So stop mentioning Plushenko and his fans in every thread there is. There are enough already to play around.:agree:

I havent mentioned it for a couple of days.........:think:

So don't get me started

 

[Clarice]

If it's not against the rules, it's not cheating. That said, I don't like it, either, and hope the rules are changed.

 

[Mathman]

Doesn't cheating means go against the rules but not get caught?

Maybe "cheating" isn't the right word. The essence of sports is to compete on a level playing field. To create an advantage for yourself by using artificial aids external to the accepted practices of the sport -- I think that is unsportsmanlike even if no one can find a specific rule against it in the rule book.

I doubt that there is a line in the rule book for football that says, you cannot pull out a gun and shoot your opponent. But if you did that, I would call it cheating.

 

[janetfan]

Maybe "cheating" isn't the right word. The essence of sports is to compete on a level playing field. To create an advantage for yourself by using artificial aids external to the accepted practices of the sport -- I think that is unsportsmanlike even if no one can find a specific rule against it in the rule book.

I doubt that there is a line in the rule book for football that says, you cannot pull out a gun and shoot your opponent. But if you did that, I would call it cheating.

Interesting that you seemed to have raised the ante from the "baling hay" analogy to shooting your opponent with a gun.

Is it fair to say you don't agree with the Dance podium - or are you just expressing a strong disapproval of D/S and the "tactics" they used to finish third?

Or maybe the judges could have considered that D/S were not on an equal playing field and marked them accordingly?

 

[seniorita]

I doubt that there is a line in the rule book for football that says, you cannot pull out a gun and shoot your opponent. But if you did that, I would call it cheating.

oy mathman, that wouldnt be cheating, that would have been called murder!

I laugh cause I m debating the ice dance, when I dont know a single rule of it

Maybe double life of Veronique had rops and laces in its scenario?(i kid)

Maybe in the future they will also use these ropes that beginners level skaters use to learn the jumps and everybody will be jumping quads this way, everybody then happy?(i also kid)

 

[Wicked]

D&S did not cheat. What they did was allowed under the rules, so no cheating. Doesn't mean it was fair or the right thing to do, and that's what bugs me about it. They knew they were getting an unfair advantage.

 

[treesprite]

D&S did not cheat. What they did was allowed under the rules, so no cheating. Doesn't mean it was fair or the right thing to do, and that's what bugs me about it. They knew they were getting an unfair advantage.

IMO, if they had to ask whether or not it was allowed in the rules, they must have themselves questioned the fairness of using the ropes.

 

[Clarice]

IMO, if they had to ask whether or not it was allowed in the rules, they must have themselves questioned the fairness of using the ropes.

I don't think so. I think it's more likely they just had a "cool idea" that they thought would be innovative, and checked to see whether it would be allowed. I don't even necessarily think it gave them any kind of unfair advantage. The reason I didn't like it is because I think it's a gimmick better suited to a show program than a competitive one.