Question about census and electoral college

[Ptichka]

OK, a question to the constitutional scholars here How do immigrants count when it comes to figuring out the state's electoral votes. Now, I know that the number of electors equals number of Congressmen from the given state, so I guess the question is - how do immigrants figure into that as well? If the state has 100,000 citizens and 50,000 immigrants (let's say legal immigrants to simplify the matter) - what figures are used to determine electoral votes and number of House of Representatives congressmen? I know the constitution specified what to do with a similar conundrum of non-voting residents by specifying that each slave was to be counted as 3/5 of a person, but what do we currently do with immigrants?

 

[Blades of Passion]

but what do we currently do with immigrants?

Put them to work in minimum wage jobs.

 

[Ptichka]

Put them to work in minimum wage jobs.

Really? I am an immigrant (citizen by now, but that's beside the point), and I've done quite well, thank you very much. I came here with my parents 20 years ago; we had among the three of us $248 and 6 pieces of luggage. And, as I've said, we've done quite well (Nocking-on-wood-that-my-parents'-401Ks-don't-disappear-into-oblivion...)

 

[Mathman]

I am pretty sure that all immigrants, legal and otherwise, ARE counted for purposes of apportioning the House of Representatives and the Electoral College.

Of course many illegal immigrants are not counted in the census. But the only requirement to be counted is that this state is your usual dwelling place.

Here is an interesting article about how this affects the make-up on the House. If immigrants were not counted, certain states would lose and others would gain congressional seats.

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache...in+electoral+college&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us

 

[Ptichka]

That's what I thought. It's just interesting that there is sort of an assumption there that the congressman is the immigrant's representative even though the immigrant cannot vote.

 

[Mathman]

Yes, interesting. I think the idea is, after the person is elected, he/she does become the representative of all the people of the district or state -- infants, people in mental institutions, whoever -- and is expected to work on their behalf iin Washington.

This is consistent, I think. After all, your congressman is your congressman even if you voted for the other guy.

About slaves counting as 3/5 of a person, this was a crucial compromise necessary for bringing North (led by Massachusettes) and South (led by Virginia) together at the Constitutional Convention. Naturally the South wanted slaves counted as people, while the North wanted to count them as property. Kind of a role reversal, based on both sides wanting to gain as much power in Washington as possible.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Really? I am an immigrant (citizen by now, but that's beside the point), and I've done quite well, thank you very much.

Not saying you haven't! It was mainly a joke, although there's truth to it. Some can rise above the lower wage line but there is little motivation or support from the U.S. to do so (which isn't to say that plenty of people aren't happy to just work those jobs and then be free to do whatever they want with their families; that's more than what they could have said about living in their original country).

 

[Ptichka]

I am sorry I jumped at your remark, must have been in a bad mood or something I guess I disagree about where America stands as an immigrant magnet compared to other countries. While many European countries can often provide more comfortable existence to those that do not work, they also tend to make it much harder for non-native population to find jobs. America tends to discriminate a lot less than almost any other country; if you have the skills, you have a chance. While America is hardly unique (UK, Israel, and some others are just as friendly), most countries really do make it much harder on immigrants (the ones I know about are Germany, France, and especially Austria).

I should also say that along with those $248 and 6 pieces of luggage, we had something far more valuable - my parents' engineering education. Luckily, back then we could get a few months of Welfare assistance - just enough for my parents to find jobs in their line of work. The money that the government spent on those 7 monthly welfare checks to my family (Jewish organizations took care of the first 4 months) have come back to it many many many many times over in the taxes my family has paid since then

 

[Blades of Passion]

The money that the government spent on those 7 monthly welfare checks to my family (Jewish organizations took care of the first 4 months) have come back to it many many many many times over in the taxes my family has paid since then

Yes, that's one of the many reasons I vote liberal.

You need to help the people who are less fortunate so that they may get somewhere, not cut taxes for those who already have very comfortable lives.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Legal immigrants go to another country in search of higher opportunties, while illegal immigrants go to another country for life support.

As with all citizens, the legal immigrants will vote in favor of what they perceive as the best for themselves.

 

[Blades of Passion]

As with all citizens, the legal immigrants will vote in favor of what they perceive as the best for themselves.

I would hope not everyone votes like that.

In fact, I am certain not everyone does since rich Liberals often don't benefit from the tax codes they support.

Whereas I only hear Conservatives whining about how something affects them. Or because something conflicts with their literal-translation religious beliefs.

 

[Ptichka]

Yes, people vote for what's best for themselves. However, reducing poverty is not only morally right, it also creates a better society - less crime, less indigence, etc.

 

[Tonichelle]

unfortunately there are a lot of people that abuse the welfare system... so it doesn't really work in all areas...

 

[Blades of Passion]

Depends on how you define "abuse".

Which is also more a concern about how well the system is monitored, not the validity of the idea itself.