Random Figure Skating Questions

[Sam-Skwantch]

Thank you MM!! It's very muddy to me at times the way scores are given. It makes for good arguments because no one really seems to be able to say "look here...I'm right." They've removed the (!) from many arguments if you will. Again, thanks for the response.

 

[Mathman]

I actually don't mind that the scoring guidelines are "muddy." We have to give the judges room to exercise judgement -- that's why we call them judges rather than tape measures and micrometers. I do not think it is a flaw in the system if a judge is allowed to say, "wow! that was an amazing triple Lutz" without having to check this box or that.

I also seem to be in the minority in that I do not think that vigorous discussion of the judging after the fact is harmful to the sport. Did you like Adelina Sotnikova's attack and pizzazz? Yuna Kim's confident mastery? Carolina Kostner's elegance and grace? Mao Asada's inimitable Mao-ness?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

You've been slowly converting me to this way of thinking.

 

[gkelly]

I love debating the subjective aspects of judging, such as PCS and the qualitative aspects of GOEs.

As long as everyone respects those whose judgments disagree with their own.

It's the "I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong/stupid/corrupt" types of arguments that drive me crazy. Just make your case on its own merits.

 

[skatedreamer]

What is "toe hammering" in relation to jump technique? Someone mentioned it in the "What Happened to Mao" thread re: her 3F. Sadly, I'm familiar with hammer toes in a podiatric context hwell: but clearly it's something entirely different in skating. Thanks lots!

 

[Mathman]

What is "toe hammering" in relation to jump technique? Someone mentioned it in the "What Happened to Mao" thread re: her 3F. Sadly, I'm familiar with hammer toes in a podiatric context hwell: but clearly it's something entirely different in skating. Thanks lots!

It is also called "mule kick." On Lutz or flip jumps the skater raises her free leg high and jams her toe-pick hard into the ice. As I understand it, this makes the jump easier to rotate but harder to control.

 

[Dreuf]

What is "toe hammering" in relation to jump technique? Someone mentioned it in the "What Happened to Mao" thread re: her 3F. Sadly, I'm familiar with hammer toes in a podiatric context hwell: but clearly it's something entirely different in skating. Thanks lots!

I think the typical "hammer toe" is the 3F of Kanako.

 

[gourry]

Are spins easier to do on ice than on ground? (okay now it sounds really stupid... )
Nowadays when I do stretching at home, I try several spin positions just for fun. I find the basic camel spin position is easiest to hold, and the sit spin position is really difficult to hold. If you actually start to spin on ice, does something- I don't know, like inertia or centrifugal force maybe?- make it easier to hold the position and keep spinning? Or is it just equally or even more difficult and only your strength and balance will make it happen?

 

[Alisa]

Are spins easier to do on ice than on ground? (okay now it sounds really stupid... )
Nowadays when I do stretching at home, I try several spin positions just for fun. I find the basic camel spin position is easiest to hold, and the sit spin position is really difficult to hold. If you actually start to spin on ice, does something- I don't know, like inertia or centrifugal force maybe?- make it easier to hold the position and keep spinning? Or is it just equally or even more difficult and only your strength and balance will make it happen?

I personally find it much easier to actually do a sit spin on the ice than to hold the position off ice. It doesn't feel difficult to sustain the sit spin position when I'm spinning and the spin movement helps me stand up easily.

 

[Mathman]

...inertia or centrifugal force maybe?...

Conservation of angular momentum and lack of friction?

 

[gourry]

I personally find it much easier to actually do a sit spin on the ice than to hold the position off ice. It doesn't feel difficult to sustain the sit spin position when I'm spinning and the spin movement helps me stand up easily.

Thanks! It's good to hear that standing up from sit spin is easier on the ice because I find it very very difficult and get afraid of hurting my knee.

Conservation of angular momentum and lack of friction?

Thanks! I knew the lack of friction part would definitely help spinning, but was curious if there were any other factor that would affect holding spin positions.

 

[Chamazing]

Why so many fraud activity happening in figure skating? :scratch:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why so many fraud activity happening in figure skating? :scratch:

Do fish not swim when the pond is frozen? Of course.:think:

 

[gourry]

I'm not a 6.0 era viewer, I'm not familiar with the scoring criteria in that era, so maybe my question is totally not making sense but I'm curious.

If you compare Oksana's Swan Lake and Katia's Giselle, which one would score higher in artistic mark?
I guess Katia's Giselle was not meant to be a competition program and the jumps were not that difficult, but it is just such a lovely program.
To me both Swan Lake and Giselle look very balletic and artistic. I like Giselle a bit more because Katia looks very natural and polished whereas Oksana looks a bit awkward at times.
So, if you have to compare those two in competition under 6.0 judging, which one would score higher in artistic mark?

Swan Lake: http://youtu.be/2GDdHQmcK7g
Giselle: http://youtu.be/ADvfXJaxuFM

Also, are there any other great ladies 6.0 programs on ballet music you would recommend?

 

[gkelly]

I'm not a 6.0 era viewer, I'm not familiar with the scoring criteria in that era, so maybe my question is totally not making sense but I'm curious.

If you compare Oksana's Swan Lake and Katia's Giselle, which one would score higher in artistic mark?
I guess Katia's Giselle was not meant to be a competition program and the jumps were not that difficult, but it is just such a lovely program.
To me both Swan Lake and Giselle look very balletic and artistic. I like Giselle a bit more because Katia looks very natural and polished whereas Oksana looks a bit awkward at times.
So, if you have to compare those two in competition under 6.0 judging, which one would score higher in artistic mark?

It's really impossible to say, because the purpose of the marks in 6.0 was to help each judge keep track of how they compared different performances in the same competition. The numbers didn't have any meaning in themselves.

Also, there was only one number to cover everything that is currently covered under the Performance/Execution, Choreography, and Interpretation criteria, and also some of the Skating Skills and Transitions criteria.

So you can imagine a pro-am, show program-type competition in which Oksana and Katia were competing against each other and Oksana chose to reuse her old short program (she did actually revive a rechoreographed version of that SP later in her show career). And you could decide that for purposes of that competition Katia was better at all or most of the criteria for the second mark that are important to you, and give her a higher second mark. A different judge might disagree, and neither of you would be wrong.

Also, are there any other great ladies 6.0 programs on ballet music you would recommend?

When you say great ladies 6.0 programs on ballet music, what are you looking for? How would you define "great"?

Well performed in a balletic style (or not necessarily)? Well choreographed, in a balletic style or otherwise? With great technical content as well?

I'm curious what you think of these free skates from the 1997 US championships:

Alizah Allen, Don Quixote
Angela Nikodinov, Cinderella
Nicole Bobek, Giselle

 

[volk]

Do they drop highest and lowest score from judging?

 

[gkelly]

In 6.0, they did not drop the highest and lowest score.
See the "How to Interpret Your 6.0 Scores" document on this page for an explanation of how 6.0 scoring works.

In IJS, all judges give grades of execution to each element, and scores for each program component.
The highest and lowest GOE for each element are dropped. The highest and lowest score for each component are dropped.

 

[Mathman]

See the "How to Interpret Your 6.0 Scores" document on this page for an explanation of how 6.0 scoring works.

Thank you for this link! This is such a clear explanation of the 6.0 Majority of Ordinals system!

From this point forward (after the marks are converted to ordinal rankings for each judge), only ORDINAL values are used in placing the skater.

This eliminates any bias due to a judge who places consistently too high, too low, or who has an overly broad or narrow “range” of mark

We do not average the scores, we do not throw out the high or the low. We look for a reflection of the majority opinion, ignoring scores which are not part of a majority assessment.

This is so pretty. This is so right. This scoring method is a peacock, the IJS is a buzzard. Oh well.

(By the way, Skater #1 blitzed this competition, doing a (single) Lutz, Flip, a Lz+T combo, a F+Lo combo, a camel spin, sit spin, and back sit spin, while also grabbing the highest [presentation mark.

 

[channah]

Does anyone know where I can see videos of Patrick Chan's SP and LP from the Sochi games?
I can't seem to find any.
Thanks in advance if you can help.

 

[Meoima]

Does anyone know where I can see videos of Patrick Chan's SP and LP from the Sochi games?
I can't seem to find any.
Thanks in advance if you can help.

you can find the whole event by using torrent. Just go to http://thepiratebay.se/ or http://kickass.to/