Random Figure Skating Questions

[Sophie-Anna]

Does anyone know why Cappellini/Lanotte received points for their FD at the Europeans? I like them a lot but in this case I don't understand the scoring. She had her foot on ice in the middle of the twizzle, she fell out of it and still, they just got some minuses on GOE but nothing more. I was surprised because I thought they would actually get no points because of the mistake.

 

[gkelly]

Without going back and watching the free dance, I would guess that the following rules from the Ice Dancing Technical Panel Handbook apply:

""If a Fall or interruption occurs at the entrance to or during a Set of Twizzles and is immediately followed by other

Twizzles (for the purpose of filling time), the element shall be identified and given a Level according to the

requirements met before the Fall or interruption, or No Level if the requirements for Level 1 are not met, and

the additional part shall not be identified"

and

"If a loss of control with additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s)) occurs after a Twizzle has commence
d and the Twizzle continues after touchdown (without interruption), only the rotations before the touchdown shall be considered for Level."



So if they met the requirements for at least Level 1 before the error, they would get credit for whatever had been executed up to that point.

 

[Sophie-Anna]

Without going back and watching the free dance, I would guess that the following rules from the Ice Dancing Technical Panel Handbook apply:

""If a Fall or interruption occurs at the entrance to or during a Set of Twizzles and is immediately followed by other

Twizzles (for the purpose of filling time), the element shall be identified and given a Level according to the

requirements met before the Fall or interruption, or No Level if the requirements for Level 1 are not met, and

the additional part shall not be identified"

and

"If a loss of control with additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s)) occurs after a Twizzle has commence
d and the Twizzle continues after touchdown (without interruption), only the rotations before the touchdown shall be considered for Level."



So if they met the requirements for at least Level 1 before the error, they would get credit for whatever had been executed up to that point.

Thank you, I guess this could explain it

 

[narcissa]

This may be a stupid question, but say you have a 3F combination in a program, and then another 3F but you double it -> 2F, and then you have a 3Lz that you get an e on. Would the judging panel count it as a 3F instead or go with the planned content and give it 0.7 * BV?

 

[gkelly]

Under the current rules, if the technical panel knows that a jump was intended as a lutz (from the approach and/or from the planned program content sheet), they will call it as a lutz -- if there is an edge change before the takeoff, they'll call it 3Lze (if it's triple).

They would only call it as a flip if they believe it was intended as a flip.

If the entry into the jump is so ambiguous that they can't tell what was intended, they'll use clues from other jumps in the program and from the PPCS to make an educated guess.

If they know it was intended as a lutz, they won't call it as a flip.


Maybe someday the rules about that will change so that all intended lutzes that take off from inside edges are called as flips.

The tech panel will not try to figure whether following the skater's intention or overriding the intention to call the actual takeoff edge would end up with more points for this performance.

 

[sarama]

Well usually it's pretty obvious the intended jump, even for skaters who have similar preparations there are still some differences between their Lutz and Flip

 

[germany]

So if they met the requirements for at least Level 1 before the error, they would get credit for whatever had been executed up to that point.

 

[gkelly]

For twizzles? Yes.

 

[Vanshilar]

So here's some random stupid questions that I don't know if have been covered before.

1. Twizzles are done in the upright position. Can they be done in the sit position or camel position?

2. Can the hydroblading position be done in a spin?

3. Seems kind of a waste to use a jump slot for a half loop in a jump combination. Why don't people go for double-half-loops (i.e. double loop but land on LBI edge)? Is it just that landing on the LBI edge is simply too hard for multi-revolution jumps? (After all, the same logic could apply to any other jump not just the half-loop.)

 

[gkelly]

So here's some random stupid questions that I don't know if have been covered before.

1. Twizzles are done in the upright position. Can they be done in the sit position or camel position?

It can be done in sit position

2. Can the hydroblading position be done in a spin?

What do you mean by "the hydroblading position"? There are a number of different low positions that can be described as hydroblading.

The most significant distinctions would be whether the skater is on an inside edge or outside edge or both feet, and whether their hands are on the ice.

In order to spin, the skater would have to have their weight centered over the blade, not on a very deep edge.

Even more significant would be whether there's one skater involved or two. It's possible for two skaters rotate around a common center between them, holding each other up in positions they wouldn't be able to sustain on their own.

3. Seems kind of a waste to use a jump slot for a half loop in a jump combination. Why don't people go for double-half-loops (i.e. double loop but land on LBI edge)? Is it just that landing on the LBI edge is simply too hard for multi-revolution jumps? (After all, the same logic could apply to any other jump not just the half-loop.)

I guess no one ever developed that skill. Maybe someone will soon. Meanwhile, a lot of skaters have enough trouble just getting the single half loop rotated with enough flow to get a triple off the end of it.

 

[Vanshilar]

It can be done in sit position

Neato hehe. I guess doing twizzles in a camel position might be a bit awkward -- I mean, it go so much slower than the other spins.

What do you mean by "the hydroblading position"?

I meant something like perhaps this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hsZ0-bsDjg&t=4m37s

(To me the free leg crossed under, sort of like a back crossover that just kept going down, is the "canonical" hydroblading position even though I know there are others.)

I guess no one ever developed that skill. Maybe someone will soon. Meanwhile, a lot of skaters have enough trouble just getting the single half loop rotated with enough flow to get a triple off the end of it.

Yeah I remember there was a discussion a while back that the back outside edge is simply the best (i.e. most stable) way biomechanically to absorb the rotational energy of jumps, and hence why it's used as the landing position. So it would require skaters to train landing using the back inside edge instead when coming out of multi-revolution jumps -- which presumably is much more difficult.

 

[gkelly]

I meant something like perhaps this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hsZ0-bsDjg&t=4m37s

(To me the free leg crossed under, sort of like a back crossover that just kept going down, is the "canonical" hydroblading position even though I know there are others.)

It's definitely possible to do a sitspin with the free leg crossed under

backspin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFXByjppSpc&t=1m12s

forward spin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z79TMsYRnEc&t=3m58s

But the blade and the upper body are more upright than in the hydroblading move.

I think I have seen someone do a sitspin with the upper body off axis (and probably the free leg counterbalancing out to the opposite side, not crossed under), but I can't remember who, when, or where, so I can't be sure I ever really did see it.

 

[gkelly]

It's possible for two skaters rotate around a common center between them, holding each other up in positions they wouldn't be able to sustain on their own.

For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWjvIiy2DGU&t=4m43s

She certainly couldn't hold that position on her own. His position would probably not be difficult in a glide, but I don't know that the weight is centered appropriately for solo spinning. Maybe with some small adjustments.

 

[silverskates]

Here are my two questions (hopefully not too stupid!). Searching on google failed to give any clear/definitive answers.

Where is the "lutz corner" exactly? If I'm sitting where the judges are, is it the upper-right, upper-left, lower-right, or lower-left corner?

During ice resurfacing breaks on streaming events, I'll sometimes see people out on the ice with buckets. What are they doing?

 

[tennisguy]

Here are my two questions (hopefully not too stupid!). Searching on google failed to give any clear/definitive answers.

Where is the "lutz corner" exactly? If I'm sitting where the judges are, is it the upper-right, upper-left, lower-right, or lower-left corner?

During ice resurfacing breaks on streaming events, I'll sometimes see people out on the ice with buckets. What are they doing?

I would say the lutz corner is the lower-right hand corner.

The people with buckets are filling holes from the toe jumps - which is why you won't usually see them during the ice dance event.

 

[gkelly]

I would say the lutz corner is the lower-right hand corner.

For counterclockwise jumpers, lutzes with a typical clockwise approach would usually go in the lower right or top left corners from the judges' perspective. The top left one would give the judges a better view of the takeoff edge, so anyone who wants to hide an edge change would be more likely to put it in the bottom right corner.

Reverse right and left for clockwise jumpers.

The people with buckets are filling holes from the toe jumps - which is why you won't usually see them during the ice dance event.

I did this job at 2003 Worlds in the practice rink; we did go out there for the ice dance practices but there weren't big toepick holes to fill -- mostly we were looking for deep edge gouges in the ice to fill in. Also for stones that fell off the costumes (more common in "the dahnce" as the ice technician said when instructing us), but unless they were really big we wouldn't pick them up. I guess we covered them over? Can't really recall.

 

[NanaPat]

I did this job at 2003 Worlds in the practice rink; we did go out there for the ice dance practices but there weren't big toepick holes to fill -- mostly we were looking for deep edge gouges in the ice to fill in. Also for stones that fell off the costumes (more common in "the dahnce" as the ice technician said when instructing us), but unless they were really big we wouldn't pick them up. I guess we covered them over? Can't really recall.

Since you have insider knowledge, can you tell us that's in the buckets? I thought it was probably ice chips in water, but I could be wrong. If it is, how big are the ice chips?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Since you have insider knowledge, can you tell us that's in the buckets? I thought it was probably ice chips in water, but I could be wrong. If it is, how big are the ice chips?

From what I know it's not ice chips per se, it's more slush, or the snow from the Zamboni. It packs into the grooves/cuts on the ice and the holes from picks better.

 

[gkelly]

Yes, slush.

 

[NanaPat]

I can picture the slushy machine!