Random Figure Skating Questions | Page 28 | Golden Skate

Random Figure Skating Questions

golden411 said:
The Pattern Dance Elements must be skated on the Waltz Rhythm, in the style of the Waltz. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance:
 Senior: Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. 66 measures of 3 beats per minute or 198 beats per minute,
 Junior: Starlight Waltz, i.e. 58 measures of 3 beats or 174 beats per minute, plus or minus 2 beats per minute. [/I][/INDENT]
Click to expand...

I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc? :confused:
 
skatedreamer said:
I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc? :confused:
Click to expand...


I looked it up and took a screen shot of it. this is from USFigureskating.org 's rulebook to clarify. I also checked with a good friend that was a champ Sr. Ice Dancer, she says this to be correct. Hope this helps!:biggrin:

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/sequineddream/media/ravensburgerwaltz_zps44dc750f.png.html
 
skatedreamer said:
I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc? :confused:
Click to expand...

I think the ISU wording is clumsy .... leading to ambiguous meaning.

Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. 66 measures of 3 beats per minute or 198 beats per minute
Click to expand...

I think the ISU means:
Per minute: 66 measures of 3 beats, which equals 198 beats​

And not:
3 beats per minute for 66 measures​

But I understand why it looks confusing, skatedreamer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, I don't think the ISU understands what "i.e." means.
Incorrect usage, IMO.
 
skatedreamer said:
I'm having trouble with "beats per minute" in the example above. A waltz is in 3/4 time; 3 beats per measure. At a nice waltz tempo, 198 beats per minute (66 measures of 3 beats per measure) would actually give you around 3 beats per second. OTOH, 3 beats per minute would be excruciatingly slow -- as in 1 beat every 20 seconds.

I looked @ the PDF and the requirement is the same as golden411 quoted it. Sooooo..........could there be a typo in the ISU's doc? :confused:
Click to expand...

Think of it like:

"Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. (66 measures of 3) beats per minute or 198 beats per minute "

i.e. (66 x 3) beats per minute
 
how do i apply Scale of Values on judges scores in order to get the overall GOE which is added to BV?

I have ISU Comm 1861 which I believe is most current SoV, just don't know how to use it... thanks :)
 
@golden411/@Sequinedream -- thanks! The USFSA screenshot seems much clearer and I agree that the ISU wording is clumsy. If they can get rid of the first "per minute" in the sentence re: Ravensburger, it would make more sense. "66 measures of 3 beats" eliminates the ambiguity.

Presumably, most people will just take it as an error and interpret it per the USFSA instead of getting all cross-eyed and academic about it as I did. Still, it was kind of fun imagining a waltz of 3 beats per minute, which would be better suited to a hippo or maybe a brontosaurus instead of a couple of skaters. :laugh:

New question, yet again about beats per minute: if the BPM has to do with the tempo of the waltz, will someone on the judging panel be assigned to make sure that the BPM for each couple's piece meets the requirements? It sounds crazy, but will someone be there actually counting beats w/ a metronome or something?

I'm off to look up the correct usage for "i.e." vs. "e.g." That seems a lot safer... :biggrin:
 
skatedreamer said:
New question, yet again about beats per minute: if the BPM has to do with the tempo of the waltz, will someone on the judging panel be assigned to make sure that the BPM for each couple's piece meets the requirements? It sounds crazy, but will someone be there actually counting beats w/ a metronome or something?
Click to expand...

The referee is responsible, but I don't know what means they use to measure the tempo.

See Ice Dancing - Who's Responsible for Deductions for Short Dance and Free Dance?

Music – violation of tempo specifications – Short Dance – according to Rule 609 paragraph 1.c) (iii): the music must be selected in accordance with the specified tempo, when applicable.
-1.0 point deduction
Referee
Click to expand...
 
satine94 said:
I understand that the basic motive for the component factor is to roughly equate it to the average TES by discipline. But I am not quite sure how to properly explain the displeasure I still have towards this mathematical system..

I had come up with three different example scenarios to try and convey my disgruntled feelings towards this, but since I am not too gifted with words they all seemed unfortunately ransacked. :ohwell:
Click to expand...

I know what you mean! For instance, if the ladies had gotten full credit for PCS just like the men, then at the 2013 world championship Yuna Kim would have finished 5th in men's with 244.28 points. Just behind Hanyu, 244.99. :)

At 2014 worlds Mao Asada would have finished 6th in men's with 245.84.

By the way, in the SP Mao's TES was 44.81 and with men's factoring her PCSs would have been exactly 44.81, too. Just like the ISU hoped would happen. Except Mao is a lady. Oh well. (With 89.62 points Mao would have come in third in mens in that segment.) :)
 
skatedreamer said:
@golden411/@Sequinedream -- thanks! The USFSA screenshot seems much clearer and I agree that the ISU wording is clumsy. If they can get rid of the first "per minute" in the sentence re: Ravensburger, it would make more sense. "66 measures of 3 beats" eliminates the ambiguity.

Presumably, most people will just take it as an error and interpret it per the USFSA instead of getting all cross-eyed and academic about it as I did. Still, it was kind of fun imagining a waltz of 3 beats per minute, which would be better suited to a hippo or maybe a brontosaurus instead of a couple of skaters. :laugh:

New question, yet again about beats per minute: if the BPM has to do with the tempo of the waltz, will someone on the judging panel be assigned to make sure that the BPM for each couple's piece meets the requirements? It sounds crazy, but will someone be there actually counting beats w/ a metronome or something?

I'm off to look up the correct usage for "i.e." vs. "e.g." That seems a lot safer... :biggrin:
Click to expand...

yes the ISU judges approve the music! :)
 
ManLady said:
ok so how do i apply Scale of Values on judges scores in order to get the overall GOE which is added to BV?

I have ISU Comm 1861 which I believe is most current SoV, just don't know how to use it
Click to expand...

In Communication 1861, go down the list until you come to the element you want. Let's say an Upright Spin level 3 (USp3). There is a row of 9 numbers (some are blznk):

1.5 1.0 0.5 1.9 blank blank -0.3 -0.6 -0.9

The three numbers in bold are the base value for the elemnt, 70% of thee base value, and 50% of the base value. The skater only gets 70% or 50% of base value for various errors. (For jumps 70% for under-rotation marked "<" and I think the 50% is for a wrong-edge takeoff on a flip or Lutz. i am not sure what spin errors receive this kind of reduction of base value.)

The three numbers on the left are how many points the skater gets for +3, +2, and +1 GOE. The three numbers on the right are the numbers of pints the skater gets for -1, -2, and -3 GOE, respectively.

So for instance if the judge gives a -2, that is automativally converted by the computer into -0.6 points. After discarding highest and lowest, the remaining seven numbers are averaged, and that's the GOE for that element that you see in the protocol.
 
Last edited:
Can anyone tell me the best finish a host pick has ever had at a GP event? Just curious. :)
 
Icey said:
Maybe not stupid, but is Brandon Mroz still competing?
Click to expand...

Not stupid. Don't know whether Mroz will continue to compete. FWIW:

At 2014 Nats, Mroz placed 9th overall (9th SP; 10th FS). He was the third alternate for 2014 Four Continents.
Jan 10 Mroz interview video from 2014 Nats (IceNetwork "social scene" fluff with Michael Buckley)

Apr 23 Instagram vid of @brandomroz [sic] quad loop in slo-mo:
http://instagram.com/p/nIkCwRhLlF/ (which has 221 likes :))​

Tom Z's Facebook page has new posts all the time with photos and videos of Mroz (incl. demos), so they apparently still work closely together.

Mroz put on his coaching hat at the recent Air Force Academy skating camp led by TZ. (Also coaching at the camp were other TZ skaters: Aaron, Nagasu, Flatt, etc.)
A few examples of nice mini-videos and photos of Mroz in coaching mode. A few examples:
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
Follow up ???

Was it an early host pick like Gracie Gold's @ SA or was it later like the ones were learning about now?
Click to expand...

Kaetlyn Osmond's assignment to 2012 Skate Canada International was announced on May 23, as part of the big reveal of all the initial GP assignments.

Lacoste, Osmond, and "TBD" were Skate Canada's picks for ladies that were divulged at that time.
 
"Host picks" go first, right? So technically if the world champion is chosen by the host nation and then wins the event, that would be a "host pick." I guess the question would be about skaters who were not otherwise guaranteed an assignment, but were allowed to compete only as a host pick -- has a person in that category ever medalled?
 
That was what I intended but instead I asked using the wrong phrasing. Has a TBD ever medaled or even won? That would be a better question. I figured after my follow up I should just quit asking.
 
Mathman said:
In Communication 1861, go down the list until you come to the element you want. Let's say an Upright Spin level 3 (USp3). There is a row of 9 numbers (some are blznk):

1.5 1.0 0.5 1.9 blank blank -0.3 -0.6 -0.9

The three numbers in bold are the base value for the elemnt, 70% of thee base value, and 50% of the base value. The skater only gets 70% or 50% of base value for various errors. (For jumps 70% for under-rotation marked "<" and I think the 50% is for a wrong-edge takeoff on a flip or Lutz. i am not sure what spin errors receive this kind of reduction of base value.)

The three numbers on the left are how many points the skater gets for +3, +2, and +1 GOE. The three numbers on the right are the numbers of pints the skater gets for -1, -2, and -3 GOE, respectively.

So for instance if the judge gives a -2, that is automativally converted by the computer into -0.6 points. After discarding highest and lowest, the remaining seven numbers are averaged, and that's the GOE for that element that you see in the protocol.
Click to expand...

awesome, mathman... got it. thanks :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
Thinking of starting figure skating
Replies
5
Views
1K
Query
Q
Ichatdelune
2026-27 South Korean Figure Skating
Replies
9
Views
637
4everchan
4everchan
D
Question about Chinese Twists & Throws
Replies
10
Views
2K
Diana Delafield
Diana Delafield
T
New blades/blade alignment questions
Replies
2
Views
1K
trubble
T
labgoat
How to watch the 2026 U.S. National Figure Skating Championships
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
11K
Kiki5375
Kiki5375
Back
Top