- Joined
- Dec 30, 2016
That is so cool to see, thank you for your effort!
Rhythmic Gymnastics Tokyo 2020 Individual AA Final: Were Averina sisters robbed or nah?
- Thread starter [email protected]
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
Is this her final or qualifying ribbon score? Because you missed stuff in both cases.
In her BD, the base for a penché in flat foot is 0.4, and not 0.2. I'm not sure if you counted her dance steps, but they're there too, maybe 0.3 missing.
Is the list of ADs in order of execution? Because there are a couple of them missing too. And I'm not sure if she's doing four or five risks, depending on the criteria adopted by the judges, they might as well count two ADs instead of the risk. Also, in the list of risks, you have some criteria missing, if this is supposed to be her final routine.
If you want to make a claim like applying the COP properly for the podium, maybe do it first for your evaluations.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2015
Hi, thanks for your clarifications! It was the score of the AA final. Anyway, I watch it again and rescored as I will explain below:Is this her final or qualifying ribbon score? Because you missed stuff in both cases.
In her BD, the base for a penché in flat foot is 0.4, and not 0.2. I'm not sure if you counted her dance steps, but they're there too, maybe 0.3 missing.
Is the list of ADs in order of execution? Because there are a couple of them missing too. And I'm not sure if she's doing four or five risks, depending on the criteria adopted by the judges, they might as well count two ADs instead of the risk. Also, in the list of risks, you have some criteria missing, if this is supposed to be her final routine.
If you want to make a claim like applying the COP properly for the podium, maybe do it first for your evaluations.
So in elements, the penché turns are 0.7, plus the steps (0.3), jeté sequence (3.0), a split jump with backbend (0.5 minus 0.1 for the kip), the illusion (0.1) and 2 penché of 0.5 each. Total of elements: 5.5
Just talked over night with one of the judges of the final, they judged 5 risks.
The first one is originally 0.9, but I would give it a -0.3 for wrong apparatus trayectory, so 0.6 in total. The second is 0.7, but -0.3 because of the step to retrieve the ribbon, so 0.4. The third one remains as 0.6, while the fourth is 0.8 minus wrong ribbon handling (-0.1), so 0.7 for Risk 4. As for risk 5, it is 0.8, but recieved a -0.1 because it was with vision and -0.7 as for the steps to take the ribbon after the fall, so risk 5 is worth 0. So in total, 0.6+0.4+0.6+0.7+0 for the risks, for a risks score of 2.3.
As for the AD, I counted at least 5 more than in the livescoring I did (nobody is perfect, and I am not a judge
) so I recounted and found 11 0.2 AD's, 8 worth 0.3, and 7 worth 0.4. Also, I gave 5 0.1 deductions to AD's for wrong ribbon handling, 2 0.2 deductions (1 for the stag leg and backbend position in an 0.3, and another to an 0.4 which did not had an 180° rotation and was with vision instead of without), and a 0.3 deduction to another 0.4 AD for a step to retriece the ribbon. To round up, 7.9 minus 1.2 for an AD score of 6.7.So, 5.5+2.3+6.7= 14.5, and if we keep the execution as the same the judges gave (8.300), the score is 22.800, still below 23.000, let alone 23.300
If you have any other suggestion please reply, I'm eager to improve my scoring technique
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
You're counting things in a funny way, I think it would be better if you just separated difficulty and execution, because they are judged separately. I did an evaluation today of the difficulty, which fair warning, it's following more the tonic of current competition than strictly what the code would like you to do, but all gymnasts are pretty much valued like this.Hi, thanks for your clarifications! It was the score of the AA final. Anyway, I watch it again and rescored as I will explain below:
So in elements, the penché turns are 0.7, plus the steps (0.3), jeté sequence (3.0), a split jump with backbend (0.5 minus 0.1 for the kip), the illusion (0.1) and 2 penché of 0.5 each. Total of elements: 5.5
Just talked over night with one of the judges of the final, they judged 5 risks.
The first one is originally 0.9, but I would give it a -0.3 for wrong apparatus trayectory, so 0.6 in total. The second is 0.7, but -0.3 because of the step to retrieve the ribbon, so 0.4. The third one remains as 0.6, while the fourth is 0.8 minus wrong ribbon handling (-0.1), so 0.7 for Risk 4. As for risk 5, it is 0.8, but recieved a -0.1 because it was with vision and -0.7 as for the steps to take the ribbon after the fall, so risk 5 is worth 0. So in total, 0.6+0.4+0.6+0.7+0 for the risks, for a risks score of 2.3.
As for the AD, I counted at least 5 more than in the livescoring I did (nobody is perfect, and I am not a judge
So, 5.5+2.3+6.7= 14.5, and if we keep the execution as the same the judges gave (8.300), the score is 22.800, still below 23.000, let alone 23.300
If you have any other suggestion please reply, I'm eager to improve my scoring technique
In BD I got the same as her score: 5.4
1 penché turn, 3 rev in flat foot - 0.6
5 jeté en tournant/backbend (0.6 each) - 3
1 split leap/backbend - 0.5
1 penché balance in relevé - 0.5
Dance steps - 0.3
1 Turning stag leap(jeté en tournant) - 0.5
9 BD and S
The risks: 3.8 (I was counting four before because I hadn't written them them out, but she has five,
)R4, w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision - 0.9
R4, w/o vision, rotation, w/o vision, axis/level - 0.8
R3, axis/level, w/o vision, rotation - 0.6
R3, w/o vision, w/o hands, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision - 0.8
R2,w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, w/o vision,w/o hands - 0.7
21 ADs: 5.7
Total difficulty: 14.9 (she got 15, but then we could argue what to give or take away to reach that score. We could also do that with all gymnasts)
Didn't touch execution because you can't inquire about that score.
Mind you that she lost 0.7 in BD from that drop, so her difficulty could be higher. Also, interesting to note that, Dina has a lot less BD value in her routine, and that coming from a Russian gymnast, one of the schools that value BD the most.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2015
Thank you! You are right, if I dont add the deductions for excecution and such, the D score is the same you wrote!You're counting things in a funny way, I think it would be better if you just separated difficulty and execution, because they are judged separately. I did an evaluation today of the difficulty, which fair warning, it's following more the tonic of current competition than strictly what the code would like you to do, but all gymnasts are pretty much valued like this.
In BD I got the same as her score: 5.4
1 penché turn, 3 rev in flat foot - 0.6
5 jeté en tournant/backbend (0.6 each) - 3
1 split leap/backbend - 0.5
1 penché balance in relevé - 0.5
Dance steps - 0.3
1 Turning stag leap(jeté en tournant) - 0.5
9 BD and S
The risks: 3.8 (I was counting four before because I hadn't written them them out, but she has five,
R4, w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision - 0.9
R4, w/o vision, rotation, w/o vision, axis/level - 0.8
R3, axis/level, w/o vision, rotation - 0.6
R3, w/o vision, w/o hands, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision - 0.8
R2,w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, w/o vision,w/o hands - 0.7
21 ADs: 5.7
Total difficulty: 14.9 (she got 15, but then we could argue what to give or take away to reach that score. We could also do that with all gymnasts)
Didn't touch execution because you can't inquire about that score.
Mind you that she lost 0.7 in BD from that drop, so her difficulty could be higher. Also, interesting to note that, Dina has a lot less BD value in her routine, and that coming from a Russian gymnast, one of the schools that value BD the most.
TBH, I prefer stricter judging, specially in ribbon ( it is really hard to find gymnasts who do not deserve ribbon handling deductions nowadays)
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
I would prefer stricter judging too. But that's not the reality we live in, unfortunately.
I am feeling we had a reboot of Sochi 2014 here, where many things came together which contributed to what the result now is. Just that this time, it was the other way around so were the reactions to it. Linoy and the ball, were magical, and she has to be congratulated for such a strong competition, just like everyone who took part in it.
For the neutral fan, this event was a wonderful display of artistry and difficulty, the best of both worlds!
Personally, I was heartbroken for the Averina twins, not sure if the TV cameras did capture it, but Dina was unable to get back on her feet after the results came in, she was just sitting there all by herself, not understanding what just happened, while her sister Arina could not help her, standing there unable to comfort Dina.
The other girls were throwing a party with Linoy, it was a strange atmosphere in which the Russian team seemed isolated. Linoy later came over, gave Arina a hug but was unable to truly say anything to Dina or comfort her. Dina at first did not even want to take the medal, she later put it down.
I spoke to a lot of people (based on what covid rules allowed) and a lot of what was said was also my impression. It is actually interesting how both sides say the same things, just that their interpretation is different.
Alina Harnasko winning Bronze was great, so often the Belarussian girls were not given fair treatment in the past. You will never see me hate on anyone, but the tears I had after seeing what happened were real. Dina is quite special to me, so this was a tough moment. Thomas Bach said, it is just three years for the next opportunity, I wish it would be that easy...
All the hate, bullying that the athletes have received since then, is just terrible.
For the neutral fan, this event was a wonderful display of artistry and difficulty, the best of both worlds!
Personally, I was heartbroken for the Averina twins, not sure if the TV cameras did capture it, but Dina was unable to get back on her feet after the results came in, she was just sitting there all by herself, not understanding what just happened, while her sister Arina could not help her, standing there unable to comfort Dina.
The other girls were throwing a party with Linoy, it was a strange atmosphere in which the Russian team seemed isolated. Linoy later came over, gave Arina a hug but was unable to truly say anything to Dina or comfort her. Dina at first did not even want to take the medal, she later put it down.
I spoke to a lot of people (based on what covid rules allowed) and a lot of what was said was also my impression. It is actually interesting how both sides say the same things, just that their interpretation is different.
Alina Harnasko winning Bronze was great, so often the Belarussian girls were not given fair treatment in the past. You will never see me hate on anyone, but the tears I had after seeing what happened were real. Dina is quite special to me, so this was a tough moment. Thomas Bach said, it is just three years for the next opportunity, I wish it would be that easy...
All the hate, bullying that the athletes have received since then, is just terrible.
I'm just a casual fan with zero knowledge of the scoring system so I had to rely on what the commentator told me what was going on. I watched on ZDF ( German TV-Station) and the woman who commentated said that Dina generally didn't look as conevincing and confident as usually with some small mistakes and wobbles while Linoy looked better than she ever had. After the first 3 apparatus she said that Linoy could afford a mistake in her ribbon routine and still win and when she did she was still convinced that she would probably win because of the general lack of high scoring potential in ribbon. So when Linoy won i was shooked cause I knew Russia dominates and Dina was expected to win but I wasn't outraged. And that probably shows the power a commentator has and how they can influence the perception of the results. Personally I enjoy Arina more than Dina and I thought she was definitely a bit underscored here. I think overall I liked Linoy more than Dina due to her energy and presence. I can't say anything about the technical part. In general my favourite was Milena. So elegant and expressive and it was amazing to watch her just have fun and enjoy the experience.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2014
Indeed, the difference is that the reaction is the other way around...the girl who did the more dynamic, secure routine/program won in both instances it seems. But one is - by the majority - cheered and congratulated and loved for it, but the other - again by the majority - is hated and derided and subject to the most vile comments and accusations.
All over the place people are like "Why do Russian athletes act like everyone's against them?" And I'm like "Gee, I dunno...it's a real mystery, isn't it?"
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2018
This is really an unbelievable show of unsportsmanship. There have been numerous gold medal favourites in history who have been very happy to win bronze medal because to win any Olympic medal is a great accomplishment. To behave like this is simply unexcusable, no matter if the result was fair or not. It reminds me of those English football players when they were receiving their silver medals at the recent Euros. It was also a sight to behold. Totally disrespectful behavior.Dina at first did not even want to take the medal, she later put it down.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2014
Jerry Seinfeld did a good comedy bit about medals and it is true:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
The silver medal is a bitter pill to swallow for most favourites. It's one thing to get a silver if you didn't expect it, but when you expect and aim for gold and the teeniest tiniest error costs you it, how can you be happy? Why would you even want it? Most of the time I'd imagine it's not even personal. The silver medallist isn't mad at the gold medallist, they're mad at themselves and they're embarrassed. They feel like they've failed, I don't know about you, but when I screw up, the last thing I want to do is get up in front of everyone and draw attention to it and there's no bigger stage to draw attention to the fact you lost, than a big podium, under lights, with announcements and someone giving you a big shiny medal as evidence of that fact. I'd be cringing and gritting my teeth the entire time and would be off the podium and out of there as soon as I possibly could. I think it's human nature and unfair to judge someone's entire personality on that single moment.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2020
They can save that for after the medal ceremony. You can throw away the medal when you get home, I don't care. But it is still very disrespectful to show that at the event. I sadly can't find a video of the medal ceramony, but if any of this was shown then, it's considered disrespectful. I've won silver when I thought I'd win gold at both sectionals (twice) and nationals (once) so even though it's the Olympics, not nationals, I still somewhat understand how it feels and I have empathy for Dina, but at the same time it was still very disrespectful. The two can coexist. If you'd be cringing and gritting your teeth instead of smiling, no one would think "look at this poor girl with emotions that hurt her;" they'd be thinking "look at this disrespectful, ungrateful girl." Not a good look, is it?Jerry Seinfeld did a good comedy bit about medals and it is true:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
The silver medal is a bitter pill to swallow for most favourites. It's one thing to get a silver if you didn't expect it, but when you expect and aim for gold and the teeniest tiniest error costs you it, how can you be happy? Why would you even want it? Most of the time I'd imagine it's not even personal. The silver medallist isn't mad at the gold medallist, they're mad at themselves and they're embarrassed. They feel like they've failed, I don't know about you, but when I screw up, the last thing I want to do is get up in front of everyone and draw attention to it and there's no bigger stage to draw attention to the fact you lost, than a big podium, under lights, with announcements and someone giving you a big shiny medal as evidence of that fact. I'd be cringing and gritting my teeth the entire time and would be off the podium and out of there as soon as I possibly could. I think it's human nature and unfair to judge someone's entire personality on that single moment.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
Linoy privated her account on Instagram today, and judges are receiving threats to themselves and their families—I’ve been in second-hand contact with the judge from Argentina, and it’s what he said.
I think this has gone too far. And I’m sure it going to spill into future judgements of Russian gymnasts. I’d assume some judges would like to make an example out of them.
I think this has gone too far. And I’m sure it going to spill into future judgements of Russian gymnasts. I’d assume some judges would like to make an example out of them.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Online harrassment and bullying of a young woman? Death threats to officials? Honest to God, there are some deranged folk out there.
And this also needs to be said from someone who generally admires his contributions to skating:
Yagudin should be ashamed of himself. He is a respected champion in a partially subjective sport, so he should be well aware that sometimes things go your way in a close decision, and sometimes they don't. For such an icon to take to internet fanning the flames (like he did in the earlier post I referenced) is a horrific abuse of the position he's earned. He's a champion, and he should act like one.
Likewise to any others who have contributed to this gross overreaction. Honestly, the Russian gymnast didn't exactly cover herself with glory in her response... but that is somewhat mitigated by the disappointment she felt in the moment. Don't compete if you're not prepared to lose. Nothing is guaranteed, certainly not an athletic competition.
And this also needs to be said from someone who generally admires his contributions to skating:
Yagudin should be ashamed of himself. He is a respected champion in a partially subjective sport, so he should be well aware that sometimes things go your way in a close decision, and sometimes they don't. For such an icon to take to internet fanning the flames (like he did in the earlier post I referenced) is a horrific abuse of the position he's earned. He's a champion, and he should act like one.
Likewise to any others who have contributed to this gross overreaction. Honestly, the Russian gymnast didn't exactly cover herself with glory in her response... but that is somewhat mitigated by the disappointment she felt in the moment. Don't compete if you're not prepared to lose. Nothing is guaranteed, certainly not an athletic competition.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2015
She has always done this since juniors, including her gold medal wins as well, but the fans are saying it is unsportmanship because of her not-so-lucky statements to the press, instead of looking back at her old podium videos. Also, she is not the only one who did it that day
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2015
I can confirm this as well, including the threats to the execution judges too. ROC President started a virtual witch-hunt against them.
Meanwhile, Arina at yesterday's interview made a statement against the harrasment Linoy and the judges are recieving, and asking Russians to stop the hate regarding the results
Funnily enough, ROC president was one of the first ones to put out a statement saying that it was a close fought competition and he's not in a position to question the judges. Then Viner put out her statement and he did an about face.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
Hi, thanks for your clarifications! It was the score of the AA final. Anyway, I watch it again and rescored as I will explain below:
So in elements, the penché turns are 0.7, plus the steps (0.3), jeté sequence (3.0), a split jump with backbend (0.5 minus 0.1 for the kip), the illusion (0.1) and 2 penché of 0.5 each. Total of elements: 5.5
Just talked over night with one of the judges of the final, they judged 5 risks.
The first one is originally 0.9, but I would give it a -0.3 for wrong apparatus trayectory, so 0.6 in total. The second is 0.7, but -0.3 because of the step to retrieve the ribbon, so 0.4. The third one remains as 0.6, while the fourth is 0.8 minus wrong ribbon handling (-0.1), so 0.7 for Risk 4. As for risk 5, it is 0.8, but recieved a -0.1 because it was with vision and -0.7 as for the steps to take the ribbon after the fall, so risk 5 is worth 0. So in total, 0.6+0.4+0.6+0.7+0 for the risks, for a risks score of 2.3.
As for the AD, I counted at least 5 more than in the livescoring I did (nobody is perfect, and I am not a judge
So, 5.5+2.3+6.7= 14.5, and if we keep the execution as the same the judges gave (8.300), the score is 22.800, still below 23.000, let alone 23.300
If you have any other suggestion please reply, I'm eager to improve my scoring technique
Hi, thanks for your clarifications! It was the score of the AA final. Anyway, I watch it again and rescored as I will explain below:
So in elements, the penché turns are 0.7, plus the steps (0.3), jeté sequence (3.0), a split jump with backbend (0.5 minus 0.1 for the kip), the illusion (0.1) and 2 penché of 0.5 each. Total of elements: 5.5
Just talked over night with one of the judges of the final, they judged 5 risks.
The first one is originally 0.9, but I would give it a -0.3 for wrong apparatus trayectory, so 0.6 in total. The second is 0.7, but -0.3 because of the step to retrieve the ribbon, so 0.4. The third one remains as 0.6, while the fourth is 0.8 minus wrong ribbon handling (-0.1), so 0.7 for Risk 4. As for risk 5, it is 0.8, but recieved a -0.1 because it was with vision and -0.7 as for the steps to take the ribbon after the fall, so risk 5 is worth 0. So in total, 0.6+0.4+0.6+0.7+0 for the risks, for a risks score of 2.3.
As for the AD, I counted at least 5 more than in the livescoring I did (nobody is perfect, and I am not a judge
So, 5.5+2.3+6.7= 14.5, and if we keep the execution as the same the judges gave (8.300), the score is 22.800, still below 23.000, let alone 23.300
If you have any other suggestion please reply, I'm eager to improve my scoring technique
I agree with coldblueeyes, you are not evaluating the body difficulties correctly ines42575. Remember that the 9 body difficulties with the highest value are given value. (For example: the illusion you counted is discarded from the DB score. She just uses it during an AD to get the criteria in) Just a tip, it's better to evaluate body difficulties and dance series separately, apparatus difficulties and risks separately, then execution seperately.You're counting things in a funny way, I think it would be better if you just separated difficulty and execution, because they are judged separately. I did an evaluation today of the difficulty, which fair warning, it's following more the tonic of current competition than strictly what the code would like you to do, but all gymnasts are pretty much valued like this.
In BD I got the same as her score: 5.4
1 penché turn, 3 rev in flat foot - 0.6
5 jeté en tournant/backbend (0.6 each) - 3
1 split leap/backbend - 0.5
1 penché balance in relevé - 0.5
Dance steps - 0.3
1 Turning stag leap(jeté en tournant) - 0.5
9 BD and S
The risks: 3.8 (I was counting four before because I hadn't written them them out, but she has five,
R4, w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision - 0.9
R4, w/o vision, rotation, w/o vision, axis/level - 0.8
R3, axis/level, w/o vision, rotation - 0.6
R3, w/o vision, w/o hands, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision - 0.8
R2,w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, w/o vision,w/o hands - 0.7
21 ADs: 5.7
Total difficulty: 14.9 (she got 15, but then we could argue what to give or take away to reach that score. We could also do that with all gymnasts)
Didn't touch execution because you can't inquire about that score.
Mind you that she lost 0.7 in BD from that drop, so her difficulty could be higher. Also, interesting to note that, Dina has a lot less BD value in her routine, and that coming from a Russian gymnast, one of the schools that value BD the most.
I had the same body difficulties and dance steps as coldblueeyes has already written for BD+S, so Linoy's score in the final of 5,4 is correct.
I disagree a little on the risks. (total 3,7)
R4 w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision = 0,9
R4 w/o vision, rotation, w/o vision = 0,7 (sorry, I can't see axis/level here)
R3 w/o vision, axis/level, rotation, w/o vision = 0,7
R3 w/o vision, w/o hands, rotation, w/o vision = 0,7 (I can't see axis/level here either)
R2 w/o hands, w/o vision, axis/level, w/o vision, w/o hands = 0,7
I had 22 ADs = 5,9
ADs + risk = 9,6 : the same as she got in the final.
Like coldblueeyes said, Linoy was supposed to do AD3+AD4 when she dropped the ribbon, so her difficulty score could be higher had she performed correctly. For this drop alone she lost 0,7 i difficulty and at least 0,7 in execution (drop with 1-2 steps = 0,7 reduction)
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Well I would have had the woman who placed second overall. But hey a silver medal is nothing to sneeze at. I also actually preferred the Russian team but it is good to have others win for a change. Yes, the judging was suspect but hey that should be no surprise and it is always through the eyes of the audience. You have to admit the Bulgarians and Israeli were wonderful too.
