Sasha on the new "youth movement" | Golden Skate

Sasha on the new "youth movement"

bronxgirl

Medalist
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23660957/site/21683474/

I personally found some of her statements a tad ironic. She wonders about the girls extreme flexibility and how their bodies will cope? She was one of the major influences on ultra flexible movements in recent skating (IMHO). And her views on the COP? Without the COP, Sasha would not have her silver Olympic medal.
 
actually, I hate to say this but she brings up some good points: there was a sudden change of the guard last year and all of a sudden you have this wave of youngsters, mostly jumping beans. It will be interesting to see how long they will last, and whether any of them make it to 20. Most of the skaters we saw earlier were 6.0 skaters adjusting to the Cop. Now, this wave of skaters has been brought up under the new scoring system and are adapted to take advantage of everything and learn the tough jumps earlier to be competitive. And the judging system IS complicated and non-fan friendly, although gymnastics is in a similar (and worse IMO) boat. However, I'm not sure whether she is right about fans wanting 6.0 back.


But this is simply a new generation of skaters taking hold, and she is feeling the gap widening. That is normal.
 
Another skater who doesn't like COP. We've heard similiar statements from a lot of other skaters (Kwan, Weir, Lambiel, Lysacek, Plush ...)!
No I wonder, if the NJS isn't loved by the majority of skaters, why doesn't Cinquanta consider this. I mean, the skaters should be the first to decide.
 
I agree with most of what Sasha says.

She wonders about the girls extreme flexibility and how their bodies will cope? She was one of the major influences on ultra flexible movements in recent skating (IMHO).

Yes she's famous for her flexibilty, but unlike these girls, Sasha was "naturally" flexible (ie: her body could handle such flexibilty), whereas a lot of these girls aren't, they just do all that "toe chewing stuff" (as Johnny would put it) because the system makes them. And it is true, that they don't focus as much on artistry. They are young, and we can't espect them to interpret like, say, Michelle Kwan, but the system doesn't encourage skaters to work their artistry so much, so even if these girls make it to 20 years old, how many of them will have evolved into true artists like Sasha, Michelle or Shizuka?

I don't skate, but the way I see it is that if these girls bodies can't handle the difficulties, maybe when they're teenagers, they should focus more on the quality of their jumps rather than the difficulty, and focus more on artistry. Then maybe when they get older, then they can start doing the harder jumps. Maybe a skater in the forum could confirm or not my view?

Another skater who doesn't like COP. We've heard similiar statements from a lot of other skaters (Kwan, Weir, Lambiel, Lysacek, Plush ...)!
No I wonder, if the NJS isn't loved by the majority of skaters, why doesn't Cinquanta consider this. I mean, the skaters should be the first to decide.

I agree. It's the skaters who make the sport and the art. If they don't feel free, how can they skate their best?
Why Cinquanta isn't considering changing the system is a mystery. He should at least call a commitee of differant representants of figure skating (skaters, coaches, choreographers, judges...) to at least think about it. I don't criticise him for bringing the new system, we can't know what it's like till we try, but I do blame him for refusing to consider changing it. I never applaud when he's announced at competitions, it might seem rude, but I think if everyone applauds when he's announced, he'll just go on thinking everything is ok.

And her views on the COP? Without the COP, Sasha would not have her silver Olympic medal

That's true, although I did hear her say that after her performance, she took off her costume because she didn't think she was going to get a medal.
 
The article states she always focused on artistry, not jumps. Wasn't she working on a quad for a number of years? She makes some valid points, but I think she's remembering her history a little wrong.
 
New Direction in Skating

Well...
There seems to be two issues here: The extreme flexability (usually demonstrated in spirals and spins), and the jumps. When you say that the "artistry" is suffering, do you mean the acting/footwork portion? Because, from what I have seen of Sasha's preformances, a lot of her artistry depended precisely upon that extreme flexability.... Also, do you feel that same about the men? I mean, when a man lands a quad (or two), the commentators just gush and go on and on about it, but if a woman even thinks of attempting one, (or 3axel), you hear about there being too much emphasis upon jumping in the sport. Interesting....
 
sound like she is realizing that making a comeback at the olympics is an impossible dream... for that matter even making the team would be a hurdle.
 
Obviously, Zhang and Nagasu are as naturally flexible as Sasha, or they couldn't get into that position where their heads are almost touching the small of their backs.

Sasha overlooks the fact that Zhang and Nagasu are 14, an age when Sasha wasn't even skating at the Senior level. Sasha herself wasn't much an artist even when she was 15 and 16--she was too small to get much ice coverage and her stroking wasn't good. Zhang and Nagasu are as good (or maybe slightly better, since they have the 3/3s that Sasha never had) at 14 as Sasha was when she was just 16.

And Sasha was never, ever able to complete three clean performances (SP and FS) in a row, as Rachael Flatt did at the JGPF, Nationals and Jr Worlds. Rachael doesn't have Sasha's flexibility, but she has an artistry all her own, and Rachael is able to express her musicality and joy in skating while landing all her jumps.
 
She wasn't trained as a "jumper" but in her "younger" days, wasn't she always threatening the quad salchow? She says the focus wasn't on jumping during Michelle and Kristi's days, but Kristi had a consistent triple lutz/triple toe. She needs a little refresher on the history of her sport.

Keep in mind, I like Sasha, I don't always agree with things she says.
 
Another skater who doesn't like COP. We've heard similiar statements from a lot of other skaters (Kwan, Weir, Lambiel, Lysacek, Plush ...)!
No I wonder, if the NJS isn't loved by the majority of skaters, why doesn't Cinquanta consider this. I mean, the skaters should be the first to decide.

Let's not conveniently forget that she was one of the main backers of the Cop when it was first introduced in 2003. She doesn't seem to like it so much any more. Remember, this is someone who is not exactly known for consistent thoughts...I like to call it wishy-washy.
 
Let's not conveniently forget that she was one of the main backers of the Cop when it was first introduced in 2003. She doesn't seem to like it so much any more. Remember, this is someone who is not exactly known for consistent thoughts...I like to call it wishy-washy.

I did not forget this, but remember that she did criticize COP also before the Olympics in 2006. So her thoughts regarding COP are consistent for two years. I remember I've posted the youtube link (where she criticizes COP) some time ago. It should be in the goldenskate archives.
In 2003 she could not have known how COP would work.
 
I did not forget this, but remember that she did criticize COP also before the Olympics in 2006. So her thoughts regarding COP are consistent for two years. I remember I've posted the youtube link (where she criticizes COP) some time ago. It should be in the goldenskate archives.
In 2003 she could not have known how COP would work.

The system was new at the time and received heavy criticism from the fans, but many of the skaters seemed to like it. Over time, though, it was modified frequently, and continues to change every season so I think that's where the frustration may set in. Even if you explain it to a viewing audience one year, you have to start over the next year because of some change they made. I think they should either introduce the changes slowly over an x-year period, or just make them all at once and then leave the system alone and allow the skaters to adjust to it. Besides, Cop will not get rid of the subjectivity that comes with judging. But bringing 6.0 back would be a step back IMHO. Pick your poison, it seems.


But that aside, I think she should be more supportive of the new generation. I agree with her that these kids need to grow but I find it strange that she is saying all these things about skating but doesn't quite realize that she has the ability to help turn that around. She is an Olympic medalist isn't she? That can help draw in crowds.
 
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The system was new at the time and received heavy criticism from the fans, but many of the skaters seemed to like it. Over time, though, it was modified frequently, and continues to change every season so I think that's where the frustration may set in.

If you read the comments of various skaters you will see they criticize the core of the NJS, not just that the rules change every year.

Comments from Plushenko, Sale, Marinin, Torvill and Dean
http://www.redorbit.com/news/sports/385957/plushenko_attacks_new_judging_system/

Johnny Weir
http://figureskating.about.com/od/famousmalefigureskaters/a/weir.htm

Scott Hamilton
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=200&mode=threaded

Brian Boitano
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/WinterGames2006/story?id=1632863&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Lambiel and Lysacek
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/World without Sky.htm
 
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People should judge young Sasha for themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-loMk4Zrko

Sorry, but Sasha at 15 wasn't better than Caroline and Mirai at 14. At 2000 Nationals Sasha went on to place behind Kwan in the FS, and then finished 6th at Junior Worlds 2000. In the fall of 2000 she turned 16 and competed at Cup of Russia (4th) and Nations Cup (5th). In contrast, Caroline Zhang won the JW Championship at 13 and the JW silver medal at 14, and at 14 won silver and bronze medal in the GP, making the GPF.

Sasha didn't win Nationals until she was 21, in 2006, when Kwan withdrew with injury; she had 4 second place finishes and one third place (in 2003). Sasha was never Junior US Champion (she was 2nd at 14 in 1999). Mirai Nagasu won the 2007 Junior US Championship at her first try at the age of 13, then won the Senior Championship on her first try, at 14.
 
People should judge young Sasha for themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-loMk4Zrko

IM humble O, sasha had much better stage presence and artistry than caroline, marai or caroline. At 15 she could play to every note of music that I have not seen anybody do quite like her.

Watch her here at 15...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5tQxgWsJU
bringing down the house. Caroline is impressive and I love watching both her and marai... such talents, but there will NEVER be another artist on the ice like sasha was.
 
Just exquisite. Thanks for posting.

But some people will be posting their sour comments on Sasha until the cows come home. As if they can't praise another young skater without putting her down.

We all know Sasha didn't get the wins she could have/should have, but that doesn't make her a less talented skater - as her many podium finishes prove. I agree with Tinymavy - Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, are all terrific. Kristine and Angela too. But anyone who could knock Sasha's "improv on ice" is blind. JMO.
 
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