Sasha on the new "youth movement"

[rtureck]

IM humble O, sasha had much better stage presence and artistry than caroline, marai or caroline. At 15 she could play to every note of music that I have not seen anybody do quite like her.

I disagree. At 15 Sasha was slow (so is Caroline at 14), she has no speed. Stage presence and artistry is totally subjective, you think she has, I think she hasn't. Figure skating, last I check is a competitive sports (at least we are talking about the competitive side of skating. IMO Sasha did not play every note of the music, infact she chose some aweful music.

Watch her here at 15...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5tQxgWsJU
bringing down the house. Caroline is impressive and I love watching both her and marai... such talents, but there will NEVER be another artist on the ice like sasha was.

Caroline and Mirari brought the house down at 13!!!. IMO, Sasha WAS NEVER that much of an artist on ice when she was doing competitive skating. She chose to skate / interpret top 100 classical pieces. She skated to Dark Eyes as a junior, then 3 - 4 seasons as a senior. She used Romeo and Juliet 3 - 4 seasons. IMO, part of being an artist is the ability to skate and interpret all sorts / genre of music.

On the competitive side, we have been (by Sasha camp and fans) told for years that Sasha is the most talented, greatest skater who ever existed. She did not live up to the hype. Doesn't mean she is not talented, just means that she does not do that well as a competitive skater.

Now that she is a show skater, if her fans want to hype her as the greatest show skater ever, I guess there is nothing definitive one way or another, because there is no measurement of what makes a great show skater. But when we are talking about competitive skating, the young skaters like Nagasu, Zhang, Rachel etc have out achieved Sasha at similar age by objective measures.

Sorry, but Sasha at 15 wasn't better than Caroline and Mirai at 14. At 2000 Nationals Sasha went on to place behind Kwan in the FS, and then finished 6th at Junior Worlds 2000. In the fall of 2000 she turned 16 and competed at Cup of Russia (4th) and Nations Cup (5th). In contrast, Caroline Zhang won the JW Championship at 13 and the JW silver medal at 14, and at 14 won silver and bronze medal in the GP, making the GPF.

Sasha didn't win Nationals until she was 21, in 2006, when Kwan withdrew with injury; she had 4 second place finishes and one third place (in 2003). Sasha was never Junior US Champion (she was 2nd at 14 in 1999). Mirai Nagasu won the 2007 Junior US Championship at her first try at the age of 13, then won the Senior Championship on her first try, at 14.

Totally agree. Zhang and Nagasu are not just about jumps. IMO they are already better spinners than Sasha ever was.

 

[chuckm]

Sasha may dismiss the young stars as jumping beans, but the problem is Sasha herself doesn't have her jumps at present and she'd have a heck of a hard time getting them back for next season, even inconsistently.

IMO, not going to happen.

 

[AwesomeIce]

She sounds jealous to me.

 

[R.D.]

Sasha may dismiss the young stars as jumping beans, but the problem is Sasha herself doesn't have her jumps at present and she'd have a heck of a hard time getting them back for next season, even inconsistently.

IMO, not going to happen.

Sounds like she is not going to be competing against them, lol.


Anything Cohen says = this big round salty-tasting thing

 

[Mathman]

In Sasha's time the "baby ballerina's" were Sasha, Naomi Nari Nam and Jenny Kirk. Sasha won a U.S. championship, two World medals and Olympic silver. Jenny was a world junior champion. Naomi had a promising start wih a U.S. silver, then fell prey to injuries before launching a comeback in pairs.

How will the new babies -- Caroline, Rachael and Mirai -- fare? Among them they already have three world junior championships, a U.S. championship and a senior Grand Prix Finals appearance. As of now, the sky's the limit.

 

[R.D.]

before you know it, though, a couple years from now there will be ANOTHER wave of youngsters and Zhang/Flatt will be the "old" folks...remember when Kimmie was a budding up-and-comer? Well, that was only 3 years ago!

 

[georgia]

People should judge young Sasha for themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-loMk4Zrko

I remember where I was seating that day. It was priceless!

 

[demarinis5]

before you know it, though, a couple years from now there will be ANOTHER wave of youngsters and Zhang/Flatt will be the "old" folks...remember when Kimmie was a budding up-and-comer? Well, that was only 3 years ago!

So true. A couple of weeks ago there was a video of a young female(her name escapes me) skater circulating the boards. She was about ten years old and she was being tooted as the next big thing.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If you read the comments of various skaters you will see they criticize the core of the NJS, not just that the rules change every year.

Comments from Plushenko, Sale, Marinin, Torvill and Dean
http://www.redorbit.com/news/sports/385957/plushenko_attacks_new_judging_system/

Johnny Weir
http://figureskating.about.com/od/famousmalefigureskaters/a/weir.htm

Scott Hamilton
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=200&mode=threaded

Brian Boitano
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/WinterGames2006/story?id=1632863&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Lambiel and Lysacek
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/World without Sky.htm

Thanks gio -There were a few outbursts of praise when the CoP was first put into use, but as time wore on, more and more skaters realized what they had to do to win a championship and as a result, lose their creative freedom.

Sasha's flexibility was wowed in the 6.0 but only taken into consideration for the CoP. Sasha could easily win the SP, but beyond that, she needed points and her whoops falls didn't lend itself to that. Her jumps just weren't point getters. Still she had her moments, and I always like her and bit my nails during the LP.

The CoP has got to ease up on the restrictions and allow the skater more freedom. Maybe CoP scoring could be used for the SP, and bring back the Free Program for the skaters. I like seeing 3 loop jumps in a row to the music. It's being musical, creative and interpretive. Nothing wrong with that.

Joe

 

[Eddie Lee]

IM humble O, sasha had much better stage presence and artistry than caroline, marai or caroline. At 15 she could play to every note of music that I have not seen anybody do quite like her.

Watch her here at 15...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5tQxgWsJU
bringing down the house. Caroline is impressive and I love watching both her and marai... such talents, but there will NEVER be another artist on the ice like sasha was.

I love our four baby ballerinas (I include Ashley amongst them)! They are superb. But sorry folks....they just don't have the finish and complete artistry that Sasha has in that 2000 clip. I had forgotten just how terrific Sasha was! Gosh, how she is missed!!!!

 

[Spun Silver]

I love our four baby ballerinas (I include Ashley amongst them)! They are superb. But sorry folks....they just don't have the finish and complete artistry that Sasha has in that 2000 clip. I had forgotten just how terrific Sasha was! Gosh, how she is missed!!!!

Oh yeah, Ashley - I love her too! When she is on, her verve and energy are just exhilarating.

Thanks for your words about Sasha. Reality check! Sometimes I feel as though I'm in some alternative reality on these boards where there is some pathetic skating wannabe who keeps getting mixed up with Sasha Cohen.

 

[gio]

I love our four baby ballerinas (I include Ashley amongst them)! They are superb.

Ashley is definitely not a baby ballerina! All 4 are superb, but hopefully they skate with different styles.

 

[dizzydi7]

Spun Silver,

You are not alone. I appreciate Sasha Cohen's skating and her great contribution to figure skating. There was no one like her in 2000 nor to this date. She has the most beautiful pointed toes, elegant moves and the best posture that I've seen in 40 years of watching figure skating. What she lacked in jump consistency she made up for in her perfect positions and gracefulness. An outstandingly beautiful skater.

I really get sick of hearing the negative comments directed to Sasha. I think people can disagree with what she says without personally attacking her. It gets very old.

Dizzy

 

[Spun Silver]

Thanks to you too.

 

[vlaurend]

The real problem is that PROFESSIONAL figure skating no longer has much of an audience. It used to be that the amateur competitions were what launched a figure skater's long, successful career as a professional, but now the amateur competitions (Nationals, Worlds, Grand Prix) are all anyone watches.

The problem with loosening up IJS is that a fair competition needs to have standardized, measurable ways to compare the athletes against another. That's why the system was changed in the first place and why a similar point system exists in gymnastics. Of course "creativity" will be sacrificed if everyone has to do similar elements in order to get the most points and win. However, if we were all willing to support ($$$) professional shows and competitions, we would see these skaters who had proven themselves under IJS getting creative and really blossoming within the freedom of professional skating. Shizuka Arakawa is a perfect example.

 

[Mathman]

The problem with loosening up IJS is that a fair competition needs to have standardized, measurable ways to compare the athletes against another. That's why the system was changed in the first place and why a similar point system exists in gymnastics. Of course "creativity" will be sacrificed if everyone has to do similar elements in order to get the most points and win.

IMO this point of view on the part of the ISU amounts to suicide for the sport of figure skating.

Why should figure skating want to be like gymnastics? Why, for that matter, should figure skating want to be more like football, or horse racing, or golf. If you want to watch gymnastics or football or horse racing or golf, these sports already exist without the need of figure skating.

I think we are in danger of sacrificing what makes figure skating figure skating, in service of the misplaced goal of making figure skating less like figure skating and more like other sports.

(Just one person's opionion. )

 

[gkelly]

The problem with loosening up IJS is that a fair competition needs to have standardized, measurable ways to compare the athletes against another. That's why the system was changed in the first place and why a similar point system exists in gymnastics. Of course "creativity" will be sacrificed if everyone has to do similar elements in order to get the most points and win.

I do think and keep saying that it would be possible to rewrite the well-balanced program rules for the long programs and some of the rules about features and levels and how jump combinations and sequences are scored so that the standards for earning points would be just as clear and consistent as they are now* and also allow skaters much more variety and creativity than is currently the case in how they choose to construct their programs and what kinds of elements they can use to earn those points.

*Not perfect but much more standard than under the old system

Of course there would still be some limits on what skaters may or may not do or what is or is not worth doing in their competitive long programs, compared to what they could do in shows or some pro competition formats. There has to be some structure so that skaters who are competing against each other have clear guidelines and judges have a meaningful basis for comparison. But that doesn't have to mean that all skaters have to do the exact same number of each type of element with only a few variations to choose from within each type. Save those restrictions for the short program.

 

[bethissoawesome]

She wasn't trained as a "jumper" but in her "younger" days, wasn't she always threatening the quad salchow? She says the focus wasn't on jumping during Michelle and Kristi's days, but Kristi had a consistent triple lutz/triple toe. She needs a little refresher on the history of her sport.

Keep in mind, I like Sasha, I don't always agree with things she says.

Sasha not a jumper in her younger days?! That's ridiculous. Sasha (even though she didn't even have a consistent 3-3) was one of the earliest female figure skaters to go barking up the quad tree (quad salchow, which she only managed to land in practice). Maybe if she spent the extra time training the quad on training a good 3-3, she could have had it.

 

[fourclover]

"I think it has lost a little of the heart and soul. It's more of a jumpy thing, which is not my strength or what I think makes people fall in love with the sport."
Sasha Cohen

Well well well, Sasha's head is too big for her little body - which is why I never enjoyed her skating - like a duckling wading in a baby pool. For me, all the years Sasha Cohen was on the skating scene I never fell in love with the sport like I am now when Mao and Yu-na and Ashley is skating. I never finished watching Sasha's skating from beginning to the end because she was sooo boring to watch. Her speed was so sloooooooow and of course, she averaged like two SPLATZ per program long or short. ONCE in a blue moon she had a clean program.

Anyway, I wonder who she's referring to when she says "they are younger and bouncy." Surely, she doesn't mean Mao?????? What really bothers me about little Sasha's attitude is that she seems to have been KIDDING herself that just because she herself spent more time sitting on the ice rather than doing the required textbook jumps, that she's the queen of artistry while the Yu-nas and the Maos and the Ashleys are all jumping beans with no artistry. And, I hope she's not crazy enough to think that SHE contributed to the sport being popular - maybe in America but definitely not in Japan or even Korea - unless of course she thinks America IS the WORLD. And why is she worrying about the Maos and Yunas and Mikis being forgotten? Sasha Cohen? I don't remember her (because I could never sit through her boring program..yawn yawn). Just go quietly Sasha.

 

[fourclover]

She sounds jealous to me.

Exactly. She seems to imply that a skater who can be flexible and stretches her legs straight - the only things she was good at - is the REAL artist, the skater everyone should be bowing to and wowing while totally discrediting the talents of skaters who - unlike her - jump well. Well, this may be a wakeup call for her but there are a lot more beautiful AND talented skaters out there now who - unlike poor Sasha - can do the jumps ARTISTICALLY.