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- Aug 18, 2003
Kimmie finished higher at Worlds. Gold vs. bronze.
Sasha finished higher at Nationals, Gold, vs Siliver
Sasha finished higher at Olympics, silver vs. 6th place.
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Sasha's interview
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Kimmie finished higher at Worlds. Gold vs. bronze.
Sasha finished higher at Nationals, Gold, vs Siliver
Sasha finished higher at Olympics, silver vs. 6th place.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Soogar - I agree with you. It's a 4 year hike for an Oly medal of any color and if none, then a big decision to try again. A World's medal, and it's certainly the most prestigious in figure skating regardless of the every 4 year fans, can be
won again the following year.
Joe
won again the following year.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Soogar - You're being very hard on the 6th place Oly finisher for her first appearance at the Olys. Most other first timers went home without being in the top 10.
The reason she didn't do better was because she was not the best THAT NIGHT. but she was THE BEST THAT NIGHT at the Worlds.
Joe
The reason she didn't do better was because she was not the best THAT NIGHT. but she was THE BEST THAT NIGHT at the Worlds.
Joe
Joesitz said:
I wasn't being hard on Kimmy for 6th place, just responding to Piel's assertion that Sasha is not as good a skater as Kimmy just because she finished below Kimmy at Worlds. Each competition is a separate event, but skaters do build up the Olympics in their mind more than they do worlds. That's probably what happened to Sasha and why she didn't skate as well. Also there are the emotional issues of going into the Olympics as the favorite.
Of course crap like this results when skaters go to worlds after the games and then don't deliver as expected. Certainly doesn't encourage skaters to go to worlds after the Olympics; better off just staying home and not tarnishing their Olympic medal.
Well, the credentials are there for both candidates. It just depends on what you value more. Personally, I feel a World or Olympic victory triumphs over a National victory because it shows you are the best in the World and can put it together when it counts. Therefore Kimmie deserves the hype.
soogar- agree with the last paragraph on your last post. I won't re-quote it. An exception was Irina in 02 who captured her first world title after an Oly Silver.
soogar- agree with the last paragraph on your last post. I won't re-quote it. An exception was Irina in 02 who captured her first world title after an Oly Silver.
Kwan went to Worlds 1998 after winning Olympic silver, and won back her World title.
But generally speaking, I do not see an Olympic medal as being somehow higher than a World medal. It's wrong to diss Kimmie because she finished 6th at the Olympics, when you consider that Torino was Kimmie's first experience at an international championship event. For her to finish 6th was an amazing feat in itself.
The other thing is timing. The Olympics don't always come along at a peak time for all the skaters. If Torino had taken place in 2005, Irina would be Olympic champion and not Shizuka. And if the 1994 Olympics had been held in 1996, Kwan would have been Olympic champion. If the 1998 Olympics had been held in 2000, Maria Butyrskaya would have been Olympic champion. Timing is a key element when it comes to the Olympics, and it works for some skaters and against others. But it does NOT mean that Skater A who one the OGM is a better skater than Skater B who won Worlds.
Does anyone really think Sarah Hughes, for example, is a better skater than Kwan, Cohen or Slutskaya? She was the best on that one night, but the best skater? Absolutely not!
But generally speaking, I do not see an Olympic medal as being somehow higher than a World medal. It's wrong to diss Kimmie because she finished 6th at the Olympics, when you consider that Torino was Kimmie's first experience at an international championship event. For her to finish 6th was an amazing feat in itself.
The other thing is timing. The Olympics don't always come along at a peak time for all the skaters. If Torino had taken place in 2005, Irina would be Olympic champion and not Shizuka. And if the 1994 Olympics had been held in 1996, Kwan would have been Olympic champion. If the 1998 Olympics had been held in 2000, Maria Butyrskaya would have been Olympic champion. Timing is a key element when it comes to the Olympics, and it works for some skaters and against others. But it does NOT mean that Skater A who one the OGM is a better skater than Skater B who won Worlds.
Does anyone really think Sarah Hughes, for example, is a better skater than Kwan, Cohen or Slutskaya? She was the best on that one night, but the best skater? Absolutely not!
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chuckm said:
OK...I wasn't aware of this (ok, I was but forgot). So looks like SC broke a rising trend of 2nd place at Olys/1st at Worlds.
ITA.
Now, I have a problem with this statement. Sure, they might have been the "best" skater at the time, but you NEVER KNOW HOW THINGS MAY HAVE TURNED OUT. Nerves, stress, etc. take their toll. IMO, you can't just say that "if the Olys were held in this year, so and so would have been Oly Champ." Too many X-factors come into play.
She was the best when she needed to be to capture the ultimate prize, and that's enough in itself. Same with Shizuka in 06, or Tara in 98. They were the best when they needed to be. that shows a strong ability to handle pressure.
Remember, it's one thing to be a good SKATER, a whole 'nother ball game to be a good COMPETITOR.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Sarah didn't exactly handle the pressure in the short program. Kwan's done well with pressure throughout her competitive career and it seems Sasha's doing well.Red Dog said:
What happened in SLC was that Sarah had a good deal of help to win that contest. It wasn't her handling pressure, but just her determination to make up for the poor SP. Sasha splat, Michelle slid and splat, Irina went sloppy. All three were in contention for gold. If Sarah hadn't skated first, would it have been the same? We'll never know.
You got it!!
Joe
Joesitz said:
True as well. Now that I think of it, Sarah herself said that if she was in the lead she would have skated much more conservatively. She only went all out because she felt she had nothing to lose. Still, she did it and it's not her fault that Cohen, Kwan and Slutskaya couldn't do better than her.
"The Gold Medalist is not the Best Skater."
Technically, wouldn't this statement hold true for all competitions? We can reduce everything to "whoever is the gold medalist is just the best that night".
Besides, to me, saying this just reeks of discontent. It's like a subtle putdown of the winner, effectively saying "My skater can beat your skater (in this case an OGM or a World gold medallist) on any other day but this one."
JMHO
Technically, wouldn't this statement hold true for all competitions? We can reduce everything to "whoever is the gold medalist is just the best that night".
Besides, to me, saying this just reeks of discontent. It's like a subtle putdown of the winner, effectively saying "My skater can beat your skater (in this case an OGM or a World gold medallist) on any other day but this one."
JMHO
I think that "skater X is a better skater than skater Y" is sometimes used as a shorthand for summarizing the competitive history between the two -- it answers a different question than "who skated the best on THAT NIGHT".
I also think, though, that the number of other titles a skater has one gets to be significant because it can have a "scarcity value" that outweighs an OGM.
For example, there have been roughly fifty five men (adjusting for duplicates) who have medaled in the Olys; maybe 18 of whom have won the OGM.. There have been maybe ten men who have won four or more world titles. Since Kurt Browning is in the scarcer group, he should be accorded the same respect as an Oly medalist.
I also think, though, that the number of other titles a skater has one gets to be significant because it can have a "scarcity value" that outweighs an OGM.
For example, there have been roughly fifty five men (adjusting for duplicates) who have medaled in the Olys; maybe 18 of whom have won the OGM.. There have been maybe ten men who have won four or more world titles. Since Kurt Browning is in the scarcer group, he should be accorded the same respect as an Oly medalist.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Among the truly great skaters who have never won a gold Oly medal did not change their greatest status one iota according to their colleagues and officials in skating. there are not many of them but Kurt probably heads that list.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
It is not easy to win a World Championship. It is an incredible feat to win two, as Irina Slutskaya has done.
To put things in perspective, I looked at the ISU list of active international competitors and their rankings. For the ladies, there are 162 skaters on the list. Leaving out Michelle, the total number of world championships by all active female figure skaters in the world combined is ... 4.
Michelle has 5.
To put things in perspective, I looked at the ISU list of active international competitors and their rankings. For the ladies, there are 162 skaters on the list. Leaving out Michelle, the total number of world championships by all active female figure skaters in the world combined is ... 4.
Michelle has 5.
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- Jan 15, 2006
They're paying too much attention to Kimmie. She didn't even really enter the scene until this year.
