Senior Ladies' Free Skate

[feraina]

Well, ironically the fact that Caroline's choreography is complicated means that she makes more pauses, changes direction, sort of skates to and fro. To some people that seems complicated and elegant, to others disjointed and lacking flow. The second quality is what the judges perceived: they just don't like her style.

Good point. She gets much better flow and coverage in her exhibition programs. Her recent two exhibition programs are both masterpieces and she's got great speed and flow in them. I think it's not just because of competition stress & nerves, because tonight she skated with freedom and joy (even Dick Button noted this), and yet she still didn't have the same kind of speed/flow as in her exhibitions. I think you are right that it's because her choreograhy is quite complicated and she's constantly changing directions and speed, pausing, and doing little jumps, so she never reaches any steady speed.

Not every choreography is good for every skater. I think next season she should definitely change choreographer and also get faster, more upbeat music, more like her SP.

 

[julietvalcouer]

am I the only one who thinks Ashley should win?
by the way, Ashley should get 1st place in free skate, Caroline Zhang 2nd Rachel 3rd and Mirai 4th.

No. I would have had her first as there was plenty of room to give it to her over Flatt, even with one wonky jump, and as Nagasu had a fall that wouldn't have been hard to justify. Though I disagree on Zhang--I found her painfully, painfully slow, and while she is graceful *for her age*, it's like watching student ballet dancers--you see why they aren't good enough to be even professional corps yet, let alone soloists or principles. The movement is there, the expression is lacking. Plus were I a judge I'd find some way to dock her hard for the hideously ugly pick leg, especially on the lutz. Honestly, I find her donkey kick much more offensive than a leg wrap. I actually see more artistic potential in Nagasu--she just moves with a confidence and maturity that's more polished than Zhang. Her artistry is also not quite there, but it's farther along. I would still have given it to Wagner tonight based on power and height, but Nagasu to me looked more likely to be the whole package when she gets a little more mature. Maybe a Kwan-as-Salome-like transformation next season?

 

[jeff goldblum]

thank a lot to all who posted the comments...I really apriciate it! I was not able to watch it on the internet...

and Am really shocked about the result..it's totally unbilievable! am feel sorry for kimmie...if she will not be send to worlds it would be strang..to be 2006 world champ and not to be send...I think that the federation will give her the chance but willl see...

so I did little research and it's interesting...

1 nagasu (14 - can't go to Worlds] - this is really paradox to be the champion and could't go...
2. flatt (17 - can go...)
3. wagner (15 - can't)
4. zhang (14 - can't)
5.liang (19 - can go---)
6. hacker (17 - can go...)
7. kimmie (can go...)

the third spot would be between kimmie and hacker...

am sorry for alissa czissny , I love her skating...how did she end?

Flatt is 14 like Nagasu. She cannot go to Senior Worlds. She and Mirai can battle it out again at Junior Worlds, along with Caroline Zhang.

To a lot of other people, the judges are right about the quality of Mirai's skating. She didn't win the free skate tonight, she was third if I am not mistaken, and this was absolutely correct. Mirai is hands down a better skater than Caroline; she is faster, has better posture through all her elements, and has much better connecting moves. I think the results were pretty much dead on, other than Ashley vs. Rachel.

 

[cocovica]

You flipped Wagner/Flatt's ages, and you calculated Wagner's incorrectly: she's currently 16. (easy mistake; her birthday hasnt passed for 2008 yet)

yeah, sorry for it...I will correct it..

 

[kyla2]

Good grief

Caroline is NOT painfully slow. That is utterly ridiculous. Yes, there is room for improvement, as there is for EVERY skater out there. As for looking like a junior ballerina, for goodness sakes she is tiny and a little kid. Remember she is a skater, not the second coming of Maya Pliesetskaya (sp?). Give the kid a break. She did beautifully. You seem to be the only one who is underwhelmed.

 

[NorthernLite]

Oh man, I'd have to go back a long way to find another time I was so deflated watching a favorite have a meltdown. And then to realize Kimmie was sooo low she might not even make the substitute list for Worlds *eek*

If she's doing better in practices now I think part of it's got to be *mental.* She needs a sports psychologist.

And to whoever said people like Phil Hersh are in her head -- yep, and that bleepity-bleep is probably already planning which of the young kids he can start second-guessing and writing rambling weird crap about.

 

[carolinefan177]

Flatt is 14 like Nagasu. She cannot go to Senior Worlds. She and Mirai can battle it out again at Junior Worlds, along with Caroline Zhang.

To a lot of other people, the judges are right about the quality of Mirai's skating. She didn't win the free skate tonight, she was third if I am not mistaken, and this was absolutely correct. Mirai is hands down a better skater than Caroline; she is faster, has better posture through all her elements, and has much better connecting moves. I think the results were pretty much dead on, other than Ashley vs. Rachel.

Actually, I think Caroline has the best posture of the skaters.....That's why her spirals are normally give higher GOE than Mirai when she holds them long enough. Plus, I think Caroline's layback is better than Mirai's. Caroline can get far enough back to achieve the pearl and she doesn't have a bent leg throughout the spin like Mirai tends to.

 

[dewey]

JR. Worlds, 4CC, Worlds

Anyone want to speculate on what the USFSA should do?

Does the Jr. National Champion automatically get a spot at Jr. Worlds?

So the spots at Jr. Worlds would go to Alexe, Mirai, and Rachael or Mirai, Rachael and Caroline.

Ashley has a lock on a spot at Sr. Worlds.

Me, I would send Bebe, Katrina and Kimmie to 4CC, then the top two finishers there to Worlds.

Emily might should consider applying for a bye to Worlds, because looking at who will be eligible next year, this may be her last chance.

Anyone else think Kimmie's ankle is still bothering her?

 

[kappa_1]

What an exciting night of skating!

I was rooting for Rachael, but she was slow tonight and I could have definitely been fine with Ashley being put in front of her tonight but their scores were so close so that's fine. Ashley, Rachael, Bebe, and Alissa all showed themselves to be ladies tonight amongst little girls. Caroline and Mirai are both very brilliant skaters- very polished, and very artistic. The thing with the both of them though is that they are both very immature. Their jumps, the expressions, and how they carry themselves across the ice. Mirai's sp was way overmarked in this regard. For reasons stated before I could see Mirai rightfully beating Caroline even though I much preferred Caroline's sp. They were both below Ashley and Rachael IMO, and the results on a whole are totally acceptable.

Poor Kimmie, I await her triumphant return to the top.

Anyone else thinks that Katrina Hacker is reminiscent of the lovely Karyn Kadavy?

The Worlds team announcement should be quite interesting- I can't wait!!!

 

[krenseby]

Good point. She gets much better flow and coverage in her exhibition programs. Her recent two exhibition programs are both masterpieces and she's got great speed and flow in them. I think it's not just because of competition stress & nerves, because tonight she skated with freedom and joy (even Dick Button noted this), and yet she still didn't have the same kind of speed/flow as in her exhibitions. I think you are right that it's because her choreograhy is quite complicated and she's constantly changing directions and speed, pausing, and doing little jumps, so she never reaches any steady speed.

Not every choreography is good for every skater. I think next season she should definitely change choreographer and also get faster, more upbeat music, more like her SP.

You are right, however I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with Caroline's style. A skating style that is detailed and artistic is just as good as one that is fast and flowing. However, to play up to the judges, she will have to opt for speed and drop some of the complexity.

 

[feraina]

Actually, I think Caroline has the best posture of the skaters.....That's why her spirals are normally give higher GOE than Mirai when she holds them long enough. Plus, I think Caroline's layback is better than Mirai's. Caroline can get far enough back to achieve the pearl and she doesn't have a bent leg throughout the spin like Mirai tends to.

Also, I can't believe someone was complaining about Caroline's "weak ankle" like Sasha Cohen's (in another thread). Caroline has a strong ankle, and holds her outside edges very securely on all the landings, fully rotated or not. It is Mirai who has a weak ankle and switches edges frequently on the landings. I challenge people go and count how many jump landings Mirai had tonight, including the doubles, in which she didn't either under-rotate or wobble on her landing edge.

Mirai may have better basic skating skills than Caroline in general, but certainly not tonight, not with the wobbly jumps she had, and the fall on the 2A.

 

[ANW]

LOL, don't you know "Caroline Zhang = Slow, Underrotation & Wrong edge"? You'd better get used to that. I am always amazed by the persistence of overwhelming prejudice against the skaters no matter how they really skate.

Caroline is NOT painfully slow. That is utterly ridiculous. Yes, there is room for improvement, as there is for EVERY skater out there. As for looking like a junior ballerina, for goodness sakes she is tiny and a little kid. Remember she is a skater, not the second coming of Maya Pliesetskaya (sp?). Give the kid a break. She did beautifully. You seem to be the only one who is underwhelmed.

 

[carolinefan177]

The protocols are up.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200708/uschamps/protocols/seniorladies-protocols.pdf

I can't believe Ashley and Rachael didn't get edge calls. Caroline got lower GOE for her 3F-3T than at the GPF, and it's interesting that she got -GOE for both of her 2As. Whatever.
Edit:
YAY for Caroline getting level 3 for her steps!!

 

[Wrlmy]

The tech caller is VERY inconsistent with downgrades and edge calls.

 

[sk8addict]

I feel so bad for Kimmie. She was rock solid for 3wks in practice. She hit all jumps and combos changed the footwork and just was on. I will see her soon and will support her. I dont understand what the problem is at this point she is right on in practice and not in comps. Maybe she needs to train somewhere else with a different coach. I hope she is OK and Im glad they didnt ask her the usually questions , what happened, how did it feel etc. Spare me that .

The same thing can be said for Rohene. Not only does he have great practices, he also has great warm ups.

 

[feraina]

I can't believe Ashley and Rachael didn't get edge calls. Caroline got lower GOE for her 3F-3T than at the GPF, and it's interesting that she got -GOE for both of her 2As. Whatever.

Especially Ashley, whose "3lz" doesn't even resemble an outside edge during any point of the entry.

....

If Caroline decides to go to JW (her camp was undecided before National's), I hope it will be a sort of redemption for her -- I think the pressure is off her back now, and she will have nothing to lose. I don't see the international judges (unfairly) favoring Rachael or Mirai over her -- of course, if they do deservingly outskate her then they should be judged so. They got plenty of under-rotation calls in JGP competitions this season, even though JGP tech calling is generally more lenient than in SGP.

 

[pista04]

Gahh. My stomach is tumbling and jumping waiting for the international assignments......I hope they are somewhat soon.....

My Thoughts:

Junior Worlds should go to Gilles, Nagasu and Flatt. I do not believe they should send Zhang AT ALL in place of Gilles. I probably would be pretty angry if they did, because she wasn't amazingly close to qualifying above Flatt, which would be what I'd think about.

Senior Worlds should, in my opinion, go to Wagner, and Liang, and send an "empty" spot, if you will. I know Russia sent one to Cup of Russia (some speculated it would be for Plushenko), so I dont see ISU believing it to be too much of an issue. Then, send Meissner, Hacker and Czisny to 4CC, and between Meissner and Hacker, whoever comes out on top gets the spot at Worlds.

 

[megsy]

Gahh. My stomach is tumbling and jumping waiting for the international assignments......I hope they are somewhat soon.....

My Thoughts:

Junior Worlds should go to Gilles, Nagasu and Flatt. I do not believe they should send Zhang AT ALL in place of Gilles. I probably would be pretty angry if they did, because she wasn't amazingly close to qualifying above Flatt, which would be what I'd think about.

There is no way that Alexe would do better than Caroline, and on a better day, Caroline might defend her Junior Worlds crown. I think the USFSA should base it on who they think would do better at Junior Worlds and that's Mirai, Rachael and Caroline.

 

[krenseby]

I can't believe Ashley and Rachael didn't get edge calls. Caroline got lower GOE for her 3F-3T than at the GPF, and it's interesting that she got -GOE for both of her 2As. Whatever.

I think the problem might have been that the judges approached Caroline like a tried and true skater who had already proven herself before so that it was fine to be nitpicky towards, whereas the other skaters got a free ride cause they are new to the scene and it's their honeymoon period.

I think the idea was that Zhang was already out there and already a name so it was best to promote her competitors as much as possible because they've got 0 reputation (Flatt, Wagner, and to a certain extent Nagaisu, although she is already somewhat known.)

 

[pista04]

Whether or not she would be able to do better than Zhang, Alexe Gilles earned that spot fair and square: the junior champion has ALWAYS been sent to junior worlds, with the final two shifting around between the Junior and Senior competitors (2006, Czisny and Zukowski competed Senior Nationals and Junior Worlds, along with the reigning Junior Champion)