That's not quite true. Yes in 2006, but look at 2005: Sandra Jean Rucker wasn't sent, instead it was Kimmie (4th in seniors), Emily (6th) and Alissa (7th). Bebe (5th) was also eligible but not chosen.
Senior Ladies' Free Skate
- Thread starter PolymerBob
- Start date
Gilles was my favorite in the junior, I thought she's a star in the making. But I don't think in terms of scoring ability, Gilles is even close to Caroline on the int'l scene. Gilles doesn't even have the 3F, and she skates slowly (not noticeably faster than Zhang anyway). It's not like it's Gilles' only chance for an int'l assignment this year, she was in two JGP's and also in the JGPF.
I think it should be up to Caroline whether she wants to end her season here, or go on to the JW. She certainly has done well enough on the GP circuit to earn two GP spots next season, and maybe she would be better off working on her weaknesses instead of training another month or two on the same old programs. I think she has skated her SP about as well as she can (at SA and GPF), as well as the LP (at National's).
I would be very happy to see Alex Gilles go to JW if Caroline declines it.
Does Caroline have dual citizenships like Ashley and Mirai? They mentioned her parants are both from China although Caroline was born in Boston. I know someone mentioned Japan always keeps an eye on Mirai for the possibilities. I can't help wondering whether China has the same plan they are desperately in need of an elite skaters like Caroline ever since Lu Chen retired. If the US judges don't appreciate Caroline, I won't be surprised the Chinese skate union may try something on Caroline.
I don't know... I don't know why Caroline generates quite so much hatred among skating fans -- I can only imagine that her person or her skating alienates many among the judges and federation officials as well, for perhaps the same reasons (I don't really understand these reasons, but just look at the number of her haterz on these forums). In what way does Caroline's 173.16 make her less deserving than Alex Gilles' 156.17 of another trip to the JW?
China and USA do not have an agreement to allow dual citizenships. I'm sure though if Caroline applied to be a Chinese citizen, that China wouldn't hesitate to take her. Her coach is being courted by the Chinese federation to go back to China to coach the girls there (there are rumors that she might make a switch this coming summer, whether temporary or permanent is not known, but the negotiations are only in preliminary stages). If so, Caroline may spend part of her time training there (my own speculations). Once her Chinese gets better and she makes some friends there, then maybe she'll be more tempted to move there (her grandparents still live there). I'm sure the Chinese federation wouldn't have trouble having her win the Chinese National's!
Maybe Mirai was being held up today for first place because USFSA is really afraid of the JSF courting her. I wonder though, how USFSA and all Caroline's haterz would feel if she and her family felt like the USFSA is really trying to slight her, and they decide to change citizenships...
I don't think she will though. For many political, social, and economic reasons, a Chinese citizenship is loads more trouble than an American or Japanese one.
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^I like that idea.
Oh, and as I was going through my itunes, I came across a song perfect for Miss Meissner......Howie Day's "Collide," anyone?...
"...Even the best fall down sometimes...
...Even the wrong words seem to rhyme..."
I bet the girl needs a good dosage of Dawson's Creek right now. =]
Oh, and as I was going through my itunes, I came across a song perfect for Miss Meissner......Howie Day's "Collide," anyone?...
"...Even the best fall down sometimes...
...Even the wrong words seem to rhyme..."
I bet the girl needs a good dosage of Dawson's Creek right now. =]
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2005
Let's get something straight. Caroline dropped the ball, and didn't perform her best. Nagasu won fair and square. Besides that, Nagasu is still a better skater than Zhang, and would have won anyway. Furthermore, Nagasu probably would have won the free skate if not for that double axel, and would have been even farther ahead in point totals.
I think what is actually the case is that it has become clear that there are other skaters who are far better than Zhang, and all of them showed it here, and ended up for the most part where they deserved.
no her best? you must be kidding, Caroline's free skate is her best so far this season. I have no problem Mirai won tonight although I think Ashley definitely should win.
- Joined
- May 17, 2007
Just saying Nagasu is better doesn't tell me anything. Nagasu has received downgrades all season in the junior circuit, and she doesn't receive a single one here ( and I could almost guarantee that some of them should have been). I'm also tired of hearing that Nagasu is so much better than Zhang because of her basic skating. Caroline's got time to improve, and we know that with her enthusiasm for the sport that she will. She's already gotten her steps to garner higher levels. Plus, I don't know why people ignore some of the things that Zhang is obviously better at than Nagasu like the security of her landings for instance. Also, I just have to say, the fact that Ashley and Rachael didn't get edge calls is just stupid.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2005
I think there seems to be some misconception about how the judging system works. First of all, Mirai's program was better than Caroline's even with the fall; she's faster, her jumps are larger and more cleanly done, her spins are on par, and though even recently I gave Caroline the edge on spirals, it is clear that she works a lot harder than Mirai to acheive those positions. Mirai didn't win the free skate. The judges don't have the authority to say "Ok, this skater fell and got third in the freeskate, so we need to place her third overall." The point totals get added up, end of story. Ashley beat Mirai in the long, however she didn't beat her by enough. It's a pretty simple concept.
So, Meissner will go! Lucky her. I hope she does something different between now and World's and comes back strong! I start to think that her problems now are largely psychological. Her practices leading up to National's have been great by all accounts, and yet her actual performances are worse than ever -- I do believe that her competitive programs have been steadily deteriorating this whole season.
It's hard to believe given that her practices are good. I hope it doesn't get into her head too much!
Except it's not at all simple. Now, no one's arguing with the fact that Mirai has better flow and speed than Caroline. But people did bring out the fact that Mirai didn't get some jump downgrades that she may have deserved. Also, the idea that slow skating with complicated choreograophy is inferior to faster skating with simpler choreography is something that people are divided on. Dick Button gushed about Caroline's lyrical, artistic skating, so had someone of his mindset been judging, then Caroline would have garnered more points. Now perhaps Button is just confused, but if he is, so are some other people who have watched Caroline's program and thought it was amazing.
- Joined
- May 17, 2007
No one is saying that because Mirai didn't win the freeskate she shouldn't have won. The short program counts too, but the fact is some of us look at the grand scheme of things, the bigger picture, and it is clear that things like downgrades, edge calls, and other aspects didn't get addressed fairly tonight or yesterday for that matter.
I disagree. There is always something going on there, just look at Ashley and Rachel. For God knows what reason, Rachel got higher marks than Ashley. Ashley is far better than Rachel and Mirai in the free skate.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2005
One, what does Nagasu receiving downgrades in other competitions have to do with how she skated at Nationals? Her jumps were all sufficiently rotated here. Go look for yourself. You're suggesting some sort of conspiracy, are you? Two, Mirai is a better skater right now, so what does the potential of Zhang to be better in the future have to do with how she skated at Nationals? The prospects of some members of this board are ridiculous. Are you suggesting that the judges factor in previous competitions into the judging of a given event? Are you suggesting that they judge based on what might become of a skater in the future. Absurd.
Anyone who has actually skated knows what good technique is and that is taken into account in the judging. Mirai has an overall better technique, on everything.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
What an amazing competition this was.
SO happy that Nagasu won! She deserved to jump out of the shadow of Zhang. It was just disgraceful the traction Zhang was getting above everyone else. She is NOT that amazingly artistic, people really need to stop saying that. She can do nice movements and tons of talent but in terms of natural relation to the music, Kwan was better at the same age. Zhang certainly needs more speed too.
In any case, the U.S. has an AMAZING future ahead in the women's department. Nagasu, Zhang, Wagner, and Flatt are going to be a FORCE. It's really sad that one of them is going to have to miss the 2010 Olympic team.
She got her 3T downgraded in the long and that was the only one that needed to be downgraded (I REALLY want to see a replay of Flatt's 3T again as well, though, because it was suspicious).
I would place Mirai 4th place in the LP but it was still a very good performance (in terms of PCS, the best of all the ladies for me) and she deserved the title overall because of that amazing SP.
SO happy that Nagasu won! She deserved to jump out of the shadow of Zhang. It was just disgraceful the traction Zhang was getting above everyone else. She is NOT that amazingly artistic, people really need to stop saying that. She can do nice movements and tons of talent but in terms of natural relation to the music, Kwan was better at the same age. Zhang certainly needs more speed too.
In any case, the U.S. has an AMAZING future ahead in the women's department. Nagasu, Zhang, Wagner, and Flatt are going to be a FORCE. It's really sad that one of them is going to have to miss the 2010 Olympic team.
She got her 3T downgraded in the long and that was the only one that needed to be downgraded (I REALLY want to see a replay of Flatt's 3T again as well, though, because it was suspicious).
I would place Mirai 4th place in the LP but it was still a very good performance (in terms of PCS, the best of all the ladies for me) and she deserved the title overall because of that amazing SP.
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Yes - actually. Otherwise Katrina Hacker might be going to Worlds instead of Kimmie Meissner. And Michelle Kwan would never have been able to petition successfully to the Olympic Team.
- LP and SP, Mirai's landings. Especially on loops.
- SP, spins - she slips up and nearly falls out of the beginning of her flying sit
Just the ones that come to mind. When I re-watch, I'm sure I'll find more...
I like Mirai as much as the next person, but I do think you're being unfair. I think Mirai has better skating skills and basics, but there really isn't that much of a difference between her and Caroline. Especially not as much as the judges suggest through the PCS.
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