SENIOR LADIES FREE SKATING Thread | Page 6 | Golden Skate

SENIOR LADIES FREE SKATING Thread

Itcaip said:
In America you sell guns to everyone but if a young girl tries to look pretty you talk about child molestation. You go!

Pruuuuuude!
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Surely your position could have been worded in a more intelligent, mature manner. The post you were responding to is a great example of how to discuss controversial subjects like an adult.
 
ILoveFigures said:
Well, then you obviously haven't been to Russia for the last few years. :rolleye:
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You're wrong. I actually was.

And I actually know how Russians dress because I happen to be one. So don't make assumptions when you see one Russian girl dressed inappropriately.
 
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MrScroogeMcDuck said:
Surely your position could have been worded in a more intelligent, mature manner. The post you were responding to is a great example of how to discuss controversial subjects like an adult.
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There is nothing wrong with the costume. The phrase "the sexualization of young women" always depends on your cultural background.
 
Itcaip said:
There is nothing wrong with the costume. The phrase "the sexualization of young women" always depends on your cultural background.
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And why are you replying with this? I was commenting on the way you worded your post. "You go!" and "prude" were childish.
 
DianaSelene said:
You're wrong. I actually was.

And I actually know how Russians dress because I happen to be one. So don't make assumptions when you see one Russian girl dressed inappropriately.
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I'm not making assumptions. :P Right now I have a feeling there is a wide age gap between the two of us or something. :P
 
Wow how did this turn into this type of discussion. In the grand scheme of things her costume is just not that important enough.
 
Buttercup said:
I find the dress tacky and not age appropriate, but the comparison to the events at Penn State is completely out of line. The events there were horrifying and tragic. There's no parallel that can or should be drawn.
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Nadine said:
Addendum:

It's pretty low blaming Mr. Mishin for that dress. After all he is just her coach, but the lady sitting in the K&C is the one responsible for the other half. If you got an issue, take it up with her. But it's a low blow to compare Mishin to a convicted child molester/pedeophile. *thumbs down*
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Please do read my comment again, for I am not comparing Mr. Mishin to Jerry Sandusky, an alleged child molester. Rather, I am comparing Mr. Mishin to Joe Paterno, a now disgraced Penn State coach, who was allegedly informed of molestation by his assistant coach and passed onto that information to his school official. Mr. Paterno might or might not be legally liable.

But if his upmost concern was children's well-being, he could have taken number of actions such as to follow up with his report to see whether appropriate actions were taken; he could have also confronted his staff, Sandusky. Paterno did none, and he allowed Sandusky's continuous presence at Penn State players' locker room/shower facility for more than a decade after his voluntary retirement due to "prior abuse allegations." By his inaction, you'll see Joe Paterno, as well as the college officials' priority - maintaining the school's "winning football record at any cost."

I am merely stating that I sense the similar kind of priority in team Mishin: That Russia already is pushing for figure skating glory in 2014 Olympics by focusing on younger and younger talents such as Tuk. We know that packaging matters in such visual sports as lady's figure skating.
If the team Mishin's utmost priority was the well-being of Liza, would they really have clothed her in such a seemingly revealing costume (FD)? Or would they have her skate in a sensual number as Medusa addressed previouly (SD)? Together, what I see in the team Mishin's priority is "winning at any cost." This might be ok with an adult skater who is capable of consenting; with a girl of 14 years old, someone has to look after her best interest. Based on what I have seen, I don't see anyone stepping up to that place.

Lady's gymnastics were accused on "child exploitation" as they pushed younger and younger girls to perform acrobatic tricks. Their federations were rightfully condemned and they raised minimum age, as did figure skating.

I admit that I might have reacted very strongly. I do not, however, apologize for my prior comment. Many law enforcement officers are aware of numerous sexualized children's photos, such as younger female gymnasts, and/or child pageant constestants, being hoarded by child molesters after successful raids. By the same token, Tuk being so petite, looked like a pre-adolescent child dressing up as an adult - just like the way certain child molesters prefer. This is precisely the reason why I dearly wish that her FD videos not be uploaded.

We do not usually think of children as sexualized, and I am very well-aware of this topic being uncomfortable to most of us. We would really rather not think about it. However, that is precisely the attitudes that allowed for sexual assalt of children to occur so many years at Penn States and other places. I do not want to bring my work-week reality to my weekend pleasure. Unfortunately this is one incident my two worlds collided.
 
DianaSelene said:
So it is not an assumption. You know for a fact that it is acceptable in Russian culture to dress like that...
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When half of all women in their early 20's you see on the streets of Moscow wear the highest heels, the shortest skirts, the tiniest jackets and their face covered in tons of make up then how can one not believe it's acceptable? Especially when all of your friends say it's perfectly normal. :rolleye:
 
ILoveFigures said:
When half of all women in their early 20's you see on the streets of Moscow wear the highest heels, the shortest skirts, the tiniest jackets and their face covered in tons of make up then how can one not believe it's acceptable? Especially when all of your friends say it's perfectly normal. :rolleye:
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But is that a fact? I didn't see that. There are inappropriate girls everywhere in all countries. I may see some girls dress like in America, too. You're making Russians sound like they're sluts. Go and live there for three years and then tell me if it's true.
 
Okay I've seen the dress and I'm sorry because it's pretty awful. I don't think I would want the older skaters to wear this just because it's not really attractive.

side note...I just realize that Liza reminds me of Elene G...shape and skating.
 
Itcaip said:
We are here to discuss about figure skating and not about moral issues.
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I guess I'm discussing child exploitation. There is the fine line when adults push a talented child to dress her beyond her age in the name of "winning at any cost."

Also, as I mentioned above, the ugly reality is that molesters love watching sexualized children's vids. Why oblige them and give them more opportunites?
 
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I tend to get very worried when I see very young girls dressed like adults, also. I don't care what the prevailing fashions are among teenagers in any country--they often dress to rebel and to shock their parents. But youngsters in a public arena (skaters, child actors, models in jeans and perfume ads, and so on) are generally dressed by adults, and those adults are playing with fire and should know better.

I don't know if anyone here remembers the film Taxi Driver. One character in this intense, edgy movie was a very young girl who--to be delicate--was a member of the oldest profession. An uproar ensued before filming, when a very young actress (age 12 or 13) was chosen for the role. The filmmakers said that they had carefully had the child evaluated by a psychiatrist, and she was not in any danger of being damaged by playing such a charged role. The trouble is, they didn't give any psychological examinations to any of the moviegoers. One of them, an unhinged young man, developed a crush on the actress and stalked her. When she didn't pay any mind to him--and by this time some years had gone by, and she was in college--he decided to emulate the plot of the movie to gain her attention. So he shot the President of the United States, Ronald Reagan, and three other people. His name was John Hinckley. He's still in jail, and fortunately Reagan survived, but his press secretary is still in a wheelchair after thirty-one years.

My point is not that Mishin is setting up for another John Hinckley. I'm explaining why after all my years on this planet, I haven't gotten any less worried about how people depict young girls when there are other choices. If the kid skates well, she doesn't need to be provocatively clothed to eke out more points from the judges. If she doesn't skate well, a dress (or a half dress) isn't going to make any difference to her ranking.

And yes, i am older. Am I a prude? Maybe, maybe not. But I do have a healthy distrust for certain aspects of human nature. Why tempt fate when you don't have to?
 
DianaSelene said:
But is that a fact? I didn't see that. There are inappropriate girls everywhere in all countries. I may see some girls dress like in America, too. You're making Russians sound like they're sluts. Go and live there for three years and then tell me if it's true.
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Well, I noticed, when I studied there for a year. I never said Russians dress like sluts. Where do you even come up with that? Of course there are inappropriate girls everywhere, but the point I was trying to make is that it seems more common in Russia to wear the style Liza (Russian) was wearing in this competition, and that it by all means seems more accepted in Russia, than say the US.

Now let's discuss the actual skating instead, and leave this issue somewhere else. :)
 
ILoveFigures said:
Well, I noticed, when I studied there for a year. I never said Russians dress like sluts. Where do you even come up with that? Of course there are inappropriate girls everywhere, but the point I was trying to make is that it seems more common in Russia to wear the style Liza (Russian) was wearing in this competition, and that it by all means seems more accepted in Russia, than say the US.

Now let's discuss the actual skating instead, and leave this issue somewhere else. :)
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Yeah, I'm going to stop trying to convince a person about the truth when he can't see it. So, moving on...
 
Olympia said:
I tend to get very worried when I see very young girls dressed like adults, also. I don't care what the prevailing fashions are among teenagers in any country--they often dress to rebel and to shock their parents. But youngsters in a public arena (skaters, child actors, models in jeans and perfume ads, and so on) are generally dressed by adults, and those adults are playing with fire and should know better.

I don't know if anyone here remembers the film Taxi Driver. One character in this intense, edgy movie was a very young girl who--to be delicate--was a member of the oldest profession. An uproar ensued before filming, when a very young actress (age 12 or 13) was chosen for the role. The filmmakers said that they had carefully had the child evaluated by a psychiatrist, and she was not in any danger of being damaged by playing such a charged role. The trouble is, they didn't give any psychological examinations to any of the moviegoers. One of them, an unhinged young man, developed a crush on the actress and stalked her. When she didn't pay any mind to him--and by this time some years had gone by, and she was in college--he decided to emulate the plot of the movie to gain her attention. So he shot the President of the United States, Ronald Reagan, and three other people. His name was John Hinckley. He's still in jail, and fortunately Reagan survived, but his press secretary is still in a wheelchair after thirty-one years.

My point is not that Mishin is setting up for another John Hinckley. I'm explaining why after all my years on this planet, I haven't gotten any less worried about how people depict young girls when there are other choices. If the kid skates well, she doesn't need to be provocatively clothed to eke out more points from the judges. If she doesn't skate well, a dress (or a half dress) isn't going to make any difference to her ranking.

And yes, i am older. Am I a prude? Maybe, maybe not. But I do have a healthy distrust for certain aspects of human nature. Why tempt fate when you don't have to?
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I agree with you. I was also thinking about Taxi Driver.
 
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