Should ISU make skating metrics available on their website?

[Anna K.]

During the Olympic games, interesting new skating metrics were displayed here and there, like, direction mapping and jump metrics.
However, these metrics were selectional, disappeared too soon for those who wanted them and annoyed those who didn't want them, and were not available for instant reference later.

Wouldn't it be better if ISU put these data on their website instead?

There is such practice in biathlon. The live intermediate skiing times and shooting data of all athletes are available on the IBU website while only small and selectional part is shown onscreen during the live streaming. Commentators can see all data though and refer to them if necessary; and so can the die-hard fans.
Do you think that ISU should adopt this practice, too?

What metrics you would be interested to look up if such were available on a website?

 

[frompolandwithlove]

Maybe not on the website, but it would be interesting to see more stats during competition, like jump height, length, speed in and out, average speed on different sections of the program, ice coverage. Cameras sometimes lie - small jump can look bigger on the screen, slow skater can look faster etc. Having some actual numbers as a reference could help us see the bigger picture. And it wouldn't be nothing new, I've seen those metrics presented in many competition held in Japan, so I don't really know why it's not the norm.

 

[yfan1]

ISU first off needs to invest in more camera angles and better cameras. If they've had a windfall, then I would hope this is what they do first.

 

[Mathman]

ISU first off needs to invest in more camera angles and better cameras. If they've had a windfall, then I would hope this is what they do first.

This is actually not very expensive. They could do it with existing resources, if they wanted to.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Maybe not on the website, but it would be interesting to see more stats during competition, like jump height, length, speed in and out, average speed on different sections of the program, ice coverage. Cameras sometimes lie - small jump can look bigger on the screen, slow skater can look faster etc. Having some actual numbers as a reference could help us see the bigger picture. And it wouldn't be nothing new, I've seen those metrics presented in many competition held in Japan, so I don't really know why it's not the norm.

CBC's Gem coverage had some of that for the Olympics -- jump height and distances, and then they'd show one jump or jump combination during the replays with a tracing of the path and little stop-motion figures along the path, whatever that's called technically.

 

[frompolandwithlove]

CBC's Gem coverage had some of that for the Olympics -- jump height and distances, and then they'd show one jump or jump combination during the replays with a tracing of the path and little stop-motion figures along the path, whatever that's called technically.

I know, I think that's what started the thread? But not for every jump. And it would be possible to measure every jump and put the data in the corner of the screen during the performance. That way it's not intrusive to people who don't care but available to those who care. I've heard that iScope (the tool that I think is most often used for measuring jumps) is not super accurate, so I'm not saying it should play a significant role in judging, but still - could be a source of interesting informations.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I know, I think that's what started the thread? But not for every jump. And it would be possible to measure every jump and put the data in the corner of the screen during the performance. That way it's not intrusive to people who don't care but available to those who care. I've heard that iScope (the tool that I think is most often used for measuring jumps) is not super accurate, so I'm not saying it should play a significant role in judging, but still - could be a sorce of interesting informations.

Gem did put height and distance for, I think, most jumps if not all. (I didn't get to see all the performances in all events, so all I know are the ones I did see.) During one of the earlier events, one of the SP?, they also showed the pattern of the program on the ice, but stopped doing that for whatever reason. Maybe they found it was too much work, or viewers were complaining it was intrusive, or whatever. They experimented during the progression of the Games, in other words. It will be interesting to see if they use something like those added touches during Worlds, having got the bugs out during the Olympics.

Personally, as a skater, I don't think comparing the height and distance of jumps matters too much, being mostly a matter of the skaters' styles. My partner and I both have always jumped straight up and delayed the rotation, for instance. But as we get older and are reducing the number of rotations, we're trying to change our style, jump out, and go for distance instead. We don't compete, it's just a challenge we set for ourselves.

 

[FlossieH]

The IOC have provided the jump height/length information at previous Olympics too. They do it for a lot of their sports. I would rather have a proper tech box. I don't have all the base values memorised and can't always tell whether something is, for example, a level 3 or a level 4.

 

[yfan1]

Tech box and jump stats are useful - both those should be included only after the performance ends. Put the stats during the replays (something that the ISU used to do before, to be fair) and add the tech breakdown along with the final scores. That seems fine to me. During the skating, it's distracting to see all of this.

 

[yfan1]

One more thing that I feel would be easy to do and is rather necessary at this point, is to make available for the viewers how the spin levels are achieved. This really wouldn't be hard, because the TP would really only need to highlight which level features were present in a spin by pressing the bullets on their screens, press which positions were present in it (camel upwards, camel side, sit side, whatever nonsense terms they use now), and make it available in the protocols (say by printing it next to the spin CCoSp4 ----------------- CU, SB (blah blah) 1, 3, 4, 11 - position notations and bullet numbers to be referenced from the TP handbook).

So much confusion still exists in my mind as to why Ami Nakai's spin was downgraded to a CCoCp3V. If this info were present somewhere, we can at least have a look at it. And this same thing can be much more elaborately be explained in a larger tech box that comes in when the scores are announced.

 

[yfan1]

Gem did put height and distance for, I think, most jumps if not all. (I didn't get to see all the performances in all events, so all I know are the ones I did see.) During one of the earlier events, one of the SP?, they also showed the pattern of the program on the ice, but stopped doing that for whatever reason. Maybe they found it was too much work, or viewers were complaining it was intrusive, or whatever. They experimented during the progression of the Games, in other words. It will be interesting to see if they use something like those added touches during Worlds, having got the bugs out during the Olympics.

For the sake of a sanity check, I looked at some of the individual event skates, and the distance measurements are present for Pairs along with height. For the singles disciplines, we got height and airtime.

I too remember the patterns during the team events, but I didn't go back to watch again.

 

[4everchan]

For the sake of a sanity check, I looked at some of the individual event skates, and the distance measurements are present for Pairs along with height. For the singles disciplines, we got height and airtime.

I too remember the patterns during the team events, but I didn't go back to watch again.

Pairs throw metrics were interesting. We could definitely see that some throw high but not far and the reverse.

I found that jump metrics didn't teach us very much. 80-90% (just a guess) of the jumps at about the same height and air time. So if we were to use that data, it wouldn't teach us much about anything. The data needs to be giving information rather than just saying that everyone is doing the same thing, when clearly, it seems like not everyone is doing the same thing when looking at protocols. I think I saw speed as well into the jumps and out of the jumps ? That information seems more relevant. Of course, the information that would be great is degrees of rotation