Suceessful pro careers

[goldberry99]

Josee Chouinard! She seemed so restricted, nervous, unhappy, and introverted when she skated in eligible competition compared to her exhibitions. She came up with the most original programs and really connected with the audience as a pro. Not to mention she kept her huge triple lutz for a while as a pro.

 

[Ptichka]

B&B certainly grew artistically, but my point was that as pros they did not get the respect an OGM team would get- again, after their first 1 or 2 years as pros. They always placed below other dance teams. It does not necessarily mean they were not great artists. It is great if their skating is still generating revenue for skating in Russia. In that sense I would say they are more than successful.

I guess you're right. I remember one year they did this very moving Green Peace-inspired program, and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them placed below Anenko & Sretensky. So I guess their artistic growth did take them in the direction opposite from audience apeal.

 

[Antilles]

Brasseur&Esiler. While they certainly had success as amateurs, I think they ahd a better pro career. Without all of the restrictions and required moves of eligible skating, we really got to see their talents as a high-flying act.

I certainly agree with Underhill&Martini. They had some great pro programs, ie When a Man Loves a Woman, and Unchained Melody. I also agree with Bechke&Petrov. I think a lot of pairs improve when they turn pro. They have more eligible elements to master than anyone else. In their pro careers, they can focus on the moves they do best, and they can spice up their programs with numerous moves that are illegal in eligible competiton. I think B&S are one exception to this rule. They have had some great pro programs, but they've had some real duds, too. They've had quite a few programs with too many music cuts, and more posing than skating.

I don't think A&P have had a bad pro career. I think they just got sidetracked with skategate, and Gwendal missed over a year with a bad shoulder injury. They've back on COI, and do many shows in Europe and Japan.

I think the best pro careers all-time would be Scott and Kurt. They've really milked the pro world for all it's worth.

 

[krenseby]

I have understood that Ilia has not choreographed for any other skaters, not even for Katia. Maybe in future?

Surya and Yuka are the highlights of the pros for me, with Kristi Yamaguchi topping the list..

Of course, Oksana also gets some limited praise for doing some beautiful programs despite neglecting her jumps and spins. But overall, a mixed review for her.

Paul Wylie was a pretty interesting pro skater. Viktor I found rather boring.

 

[tdnuva]

As someone who has a much better pro than amateur career, I'd say Steven Cousins is a good example. He is just a good showman.

 

[krenseby]

By the way, who did Surya compete against in the Goodwill Games. I read that she won and I want to know who she had to face up against so that I can judge how much her win meant.

 

[Mathman]

By the way, who did Surya compete against in the Goodwill Games. I read that she won and I want to know who she had to face up against so that I can judge how much her win meant.

She beat Yuka Sato, Nancy Kerrigan, Oksana Baiul, Dorothy Hamill and Katarina Will. (This was in 2000.)

Surya did a backflip (it was legal in these games) and two triples to edge Sato by a fraction of a point in the10-is-perfect scoring system.

MM

 

[krenseby]

Re:

She beat Yuka Sato, Nancy Kerrigan, Oksana Baiul, Dorothy Hamill and Katarina Will. (This was in 2000.)

Surya did a backflip (it was legal in these games) and two triples to edge Sato by a fraction of a point in the10-is-perfect scoring system.

MM

That sounds a little disappointing by Surya's standards. She often does 4 or 5 triples in an exhibition skate. Why would she limit herself to two for the Goodwill Games?

That said, Nancy and Oksana don't seem like formidable competition. Yuka usually is and the fact that Surya beat her is impressive.

Btw, I think that in the early 2000 Suryas participated in either a Campbell's or a Masters of Figure Skating event where she competed with the eligibles and apparently beat some of them.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Speaking of Sato I would definitely add her. She first came on the scene in 92 and was a solid top 10 World skater right away, and impressed observers with her speed and basic skating skills most of all. She emerged as a contender on the amateur circuit for a couple years thereafter, but only was able to earn one major medal to show for it, a big one mind you-the gold at the 94 Worlds in her home country. At the 93 Worlds she skated pretty well, but a triple loop combo in the short, and then a couple small jump errors in the long kept her in 4th in an astonishingly well skated event. At the 94 Olympics she was one of 7-8 legit medal contenders in a very deep womens field, but popping her triple lutz in the short to a single cost her any medal shot. She skated what might have been the best long program of the night, skating from the second last flight her marks were far more conservative, but still was 5th in the long, quite likely would have won a medal of some color without the popped triple lutz in the short. Her amateur career seemed relatively short, I was surprised she did not stick it out after the 94 season. Then again the pro circuit was at its biggest boom then and she probably wanted to be sure to capatilize on a high point in her marketability. She also admitted in interviews she did not love to compete, but loved to skate around 95, so that might have had something to do with it as well.

As a pro she really blossomed. In her debut season she had a lukewarm debut season as a competitor for the most part, with very few victories and some mistakes in the pro competitions, but very enjoyable programs. She equited herself well at her her first World pros, making some mistakes, but placing a respectable 3rd behind the dominant pro duo of the time-Yamaguchi and Ito. Then at the Challenge of Champions she ended her debut year on a high note splitting the Ito-Yamaguchi duo by taking 2nd place, over Yamaguchi, and narrowly behind Ito. In the 95-96 pro season she really was ready to take it to the next level and dominated the competition, winning every pro competion she entered, including the World Pro title over the pro queen Kristi Yamaguchi. Her jumps were stronger and more consistent then at her peak as an amateur this year, her triple lutz was money in the bag. In 96-97 she still impressed but was not quite as sharp as her previous season, and also lost her World Pro title to Yamaguchi, and lost her triple lutz as the year went on. She still won most of her pro-only competitions this year though, and was a huge drawing card at each of her events, and a recognized leader still of pro skating. At the Ultimate Four, judged by amateur format, she was no match for Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan as she no longer had a triple lutz by then. Her competitive career stagnated the next couple years, but she still was popular in any shows and skating specials she appeared on, and was still prominent in the pro entertainment skating World. As pro competitions were dwindling she had a few more fine moments as a competitor winning the 2000 World Pro title, the 2002 Hallmark(the World Pro but with a new name) over a returning Kristi Yamaguchi, and then a major upset in winning the 2003 World Hallmark Challenge over both Slutskaya and Hughes, the Oly gold and silver medalists, for her 4th title at this event in its final year.

 

[krenseby]

Re:

It's absolutely amazing that Yuka Sato, who turned pro in 94, could beat the Oly Gold and Silver medalists at a 2003 event (World Hallmark Challenge.) It could probably be argued that Slutskaya + Hughes weren't at their best. But no matter how lousy the two Olympic Medalists were, Yuka's victory is a still a testament to her skating abilities. No easy task competing against the amateurs, when you have been a pro for about 10 years.

As pro competitions were dwindling she had a few more fine moments as a competitor winning the 2000 World Pro title, the 2002 Hallmark(the World Pro but with a new name) over a returning Kristi Yamaguchi, and then a major upset in winning the 2003 World Hallmark Challenge over both Slutskaya and Hughes, the Oly gold and silver medalists, for her 4th title at this event in its final year.

 

[Vash01]

It's absolutely amazing that Yuka Sato, who turned pro in 94, could beat the Oly Gold and Silver medalists at a 2003 event (World Hallmark Challenge.) It could probably be argued that Slutskaya + Hughes weren't at their best. But no matter how lousy the two Olympic Medalists were, Yuka's victory is a still a testament to her skating abilities. No easy task competing against the amateurs, when you have been a pro for about 10 years.

I love Yuka's skating but the competition you are referring to was a cheesefest, with results being predetermined. I don't remember Sarah's skate, but I do remember that Irina skated very well. I thought she was robbed. This was one time I did not particularly care for Yuka's performance because her expression was same, regardless of what music she was skating to. Irina had a more difficult program technically but the judges seemed to completely ignore that.

Vash

 

[slutskayafan21]

I also felt Irina should have won the Hallmark title over Sato in 03. Both skated beautifuly, but Irina had a triple lutz and overall much harder jumps then Sato who topped out at a triple loop. That still does not mean I wasnt very impressed by Sato's win over Slutskaya and Hughes at that event though.

 

[karina1974]

Also- Fleming bassically invented the concept of a pro career and Hamilton re-invented it.

Correction.. It was Sonja Henie who invented the concept of the pro career, by virtue of being the first Olympic/World Champion skater to ever have one, and one of the most successful ones to boot. She starred in the first touring ice show (and she toured internationally/overseas, unlike today's ice shows). Plus, she had the movie success that Tara WISHES she had, being the 2nd place Box Office draw at one time, and her house parties were attended by Hollywood's A-list celebs.

She did more to popularize skating in this country than any American skater has ever done, either during her time or since, amazing considering the fact that there were no national TV networks carrying skating footage into millions of homes during her time. The only exposure people had to elite-level skating was to go to her shows or to see her movies. Even when she was skating competitively, she was a huge draw. The Ladies Free Skate in Lake Placid in 1932 had an SRO crowd, and it was because she was there. And she made more money than any male pro athlete of her time, and was undefeated in that honor until Mohommed Ali. She was already retired from performing at that time.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for the great post, Karina1974, and welcome to Golden Skate.

Sonja Henie was one of a kind, that's for sure.

Mathman

 

[SeaniBu]

She starred in the first touring ice show (and she toured internationally/overseas, unlike today's ice shows).

She did more to popularize skating in this country than any American skater has ever done, ...

Thanks for posting,:agree: great post. Before reading this realize I am NOT disagreeing as far as I know, just trying to clarify and give my opinion. And if you have ever read any of my posts you will know I AM the likely least knowledgeable frequent poster. So as everyone does, correct me when I am wrong.

Did she "start / organize," come up with the idea for the first touring ice show?

And would it be safe to say that the comment "She did more to popularize.." would be that she had more success at making it popular?

I will have to say I think that Scott works harder at it then anyone has at keeping the "ice show" alive. So IMO, he does more than anyone, and will probably ever do, to popularize skating because it is much harder to do now than it was then. So I have to agree with ...

...and Hamilton re-invented it.

I don't really know about the Peggy comment either, but it kinda has the disclaimer of "Basically.." saying to me that they aren't giving full credit to Peggy, more like "Kudos." But I am glad you clarifed that Sonia would have this title before Peggy would.:agree: :agree:

I think Sonia was the biggest draw in a sport that had allot more draw at that time. She contributed GREATLY to the appeal growing I am sure, and did a lot of work with touring, movies etc... But she was able to capitalize on something that was more popular, and her great personality (that I myself, am only recently discovering) added to the sport's popularity.

I definitely think she was a catalyst for its popularity - it would not have grown to the extent it did without her contributions. And Much like Fred and Ginger made dancing MORE popular, I think it is safe to say there still would have been dance movies without them. Maybe not as good, and dancing not as popular.....

 

[attyfan]

I think it is very sad that skaters generally don't get work as pros unless they have impressive competitive results (i.e., Nat titles, World or Oly medals). There are too many skaters whose competitive results do not measure up to the skaters currently on the pro circuit, but are extremely entertaining (Ryan Bradley and Jenny Kirk are the two that come most quickly to my mind).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'll preface this because I don't want people to think I am a big fan of Sonia. I was not infatuated with her especially after seeing Suspense with Belita.

However, when I say Henie was the mother of us all, that's the thing that Henie gave us. Love her or hate, there isn't anyone else who made the sport and the 'show skating' as pronounced as she did.

During her heyday, there were numerous ice skating shows - not just hers, and all very successful in the US. I think too, those shows sold out in other parts of the world. There were also night club acts with skating performers as patrons ate and drank in many hotels around the country. there were also little ice shows in fairs (National and Worlds). There were paper dolls, and contests for Sonia lookalikes. You all saw the movies, and nobody except Heiss' bit it The Three Stooges has there been another one about a single skater. (Today's movies are all about Pairs and the actors are not skaters. You figure.)

NOBODY DID MORE TO PROMOTE THE SPORT AND ART OF FIGURE SKATING THAN SONIA HENIE.

I have no idea what was going on in the Soviet Union during the Henie period, but prominent skates from Europe emerged.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

...

I have no idea what was going on in the Soviet Union during the Henie period, but prominent skates from Europe emerged.

Joe

I thought that most of the prominent skaters were European until after the second World War. Also, IIRC, the Henie period correlated with Josef Stalin in the Soviet Union (Hitler didn't rise until the end of her career), under Stalin, I think most Soviets had more important things to think about.

 

[SeaniBu]

I'll preface this because I don't want people to think I am a big fan of Sonia........

NOBODY DID MORE TO PROMOTE THE SPORT AND ART OF FIGURE SKATING THAN SONIA HENIE.


Joe

So I think I get this but not to sure. Is the thought here, that FS would never have became popular without her, or that she was the only reason it became popular...I don't know if I am being clear, and I don't want you thinking I disagree. But as I am seeing this whole "history of," it appears to ME be a right person, right time, doing right actions. Not so much they Could Be the only reason. Am I wrong or just off base?

I mean, there is no real way of telling, but did she really create FS as we know it, or become the most influential at the time it was becoming that way. Help shape, or create. I really don't know and I am really asking. I can't really tell from a Bio or a website, most of the time they "Fluff up" the person their writing about to be the greatest thing ever. A good example is reading about Ella Fitzgerald and Billy Holliday. As far as those authors are concerned, both of them invented "Ladies Jazz.":scratch:

I agree with the "Mother of us all" comment in it's context, but is that meant as gave birth or ran a successful orphanage. Man I hope I don't make anyone mad, I am just asking. And if I do I am sorry, I guess it doesn't mean that much now that it is a part of the past, just comes down to "how" vs. "why."

I do know this though, if frustration is a factor in how hard you work, I stick with the comment about Scott. Particularly in this fickle and over stimulated era. But that is JUST my opinion.

 

[Mathman]

That's a great point, Seanibu. It can't really be answered definitively, of course. Did Caesar crossing the Rubicon cause the downfall of the Republic and usher in the Roman Empire, or would the societal forces that created the Roman Empire just have seized the next guy to come along if Caesar hadn't?

Usually (old Marxist fellow-traveller that I was in my carefree youth), I'm on the side of economic and political forces creating the leader, rather than the other way around. In the case of Sonia Henie, though -- there must have been something about her, that's for sure. For a time she was a bigger box office draw than Shirley Temple, and Shirley could tap dance!