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- Jun 27, 2003
IIRC she also choreographed for Katia and Sergei for a time... a clown routine that Katia was not too fond of.
Tarasova chorographer, really?
- Thread starter zhang fan
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- Jun 27, 2003
I still think that if Sandra Besic would be willing, Evan should use her... she did wonders for Brian Boitano and Kurt Browning (who wasn't all that artistic, to me, pre Casablanca)
I don't understand why people are still going on about Evan's programs. As I've said repeatedly, his PCS were the highest of the event. If I'm not mistaken, they were also the highest of his career in international competition under CoP. The crowd response to both was easily the most enthusiastic of all the men at the event. He lost because of his technical errors on his two biggest jumps. Those need to be worked out with his coach, Frank Carroll, not his choreographer.
Look at the points he left on the table with his two downgrades. Around 13 points for the missed quad combination and about 6 points for the downgraded second triple axel. That's nearly 20 extra TES points. Add those to his total and assuming the usual progression in PCS over the season and he could easily be in contention for gold by worlds. (Compare to Buttle's scores in his blowout win last season) No choreographer alone can add the extra 20 or so points he would need to win worlds against a competitor who skates cleanly. He must shore up his jumps. The choreography is there and will take care of itself.
Look at the points he left on the table with his two downgrades. Around 13 points for the missed quad combination and about 6 points for the downgraded second triple axel. That's nearly 20 extra TES points. Add those to his total and assuming the usual progression in PCS over the season and he could easily be in contention for gold by worlds. (Compare to Buttle's scores in his blowout win last season) No choreographer alone can add the extra 20 or so points he would need to win worlds against a competitor who skates cleanly. He must shore up his jumps. The choreography is there and will take care of itself.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I believe choreography is a collaboration between the skaters and their choreographers. The latter should give the former a musical outline of the steps to be taken to connect the tricks. It is then up to the skaters to put their personality into the program. Of course, the choreographer will assist the skater to show his/her personality.
Yes, indeed, the CoP has limited this.
Yes, indeed, the CoP has limited this.
Their Paliacci was absolutely brilliant.
What amazes me even more is how well GG skated regardless of how they felt about the program.
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- May 22, 2004
It wasn't a competitive program but if my memory serves me right,she choreographed "Passion" for Alexei.
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- Nov 9, 2007
She also choreographed G/G's West Side Story exhibition in 1990 didn't she? That was alright. No doubt that she did her best work for Yagudin though. Winter's a classic, and I love Man In The Iron Mask!
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- Jun 21, 2003
Well, I think we have to remember that Mrs. T. was herself a pairs skater and made her mark on the sport by coaching pairs team Rodnina
and Zaitsev, and then dance partnerships such as Bestemianova and Bukin, Klimova and Ponomarenko, and Grishuk and Platov. Her motto is "I train Olympic champions."Rodnina was renowned for her technical prowess (in contrast with her rivals, the elegant Belousova and Protopopov). Similarly, Tarasova's proteges Ilia Kulik and Alexei Yagudin won their championships because they skated cleanly with a quad, not because they blew people away with their artistry.
So I don't think the marvelous Tatiana Anatolyevna
would feel insulted if we called her one one the all-time great coaches in figure skating history, who also did choreography for her students. In contrast, folks like Lori Nichol
and David Wilson 
are choreographers.Edited to add: By the way, I agree that Winter pretty much stands alone at the pinacle of men's short programs. But it was the footwork sequence choreographed by Nicholai Morozov that put it over the top, rather than Tarasova's contribution.
It is kind of funny to look at the old tapes of Winter now. After the success of this program, everybody and his brother (and sister) began trooping to Morosoz for that same footwork sequence. None of them could do it as well as Yagudin, but now some kind of faux-Morosov footwork is pretty much required of all skaters.
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- Mar 25, 2008
I started watching in 1999 so can't comment as to Kulik, but I think there was more to Yagudin than clean programs and a quad.
What people?
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- Jan 1, 2006
What a strange thing to say. People (judges and audiences alike) were stunned by Kulik's and Yagudin's artistry, as well as by their technical prowess.
A shame our US skaters can't match up. You sound rather jealous!
Tell that to the judges who gave Yagudin 6.0's for artistry. I thought Yagudin was quite the artist myself. If the judges were going just by quads, than Goebel would be a multi world/Olympic champion.
And besides most of Tarasova's students came to her with great basics. Didn't Illia switch over to Tarasova a year before the Olympics?? And we all know that Yagudin had all the jumps and his great basics (was heck a World Champion) before he went to Tarasova. Tarasova is great at adding the finishing touches (and also providing political support) to skaters.
tarosova choreographer, really?
I think your right. Tarasova is good at packaging a skater who has already learned all the necessary technical elements. As a choreographer, it seems when she selects the music, and theme of the programs pretty well. Then she needs to colaborate with a real choreographer for the movements, especially in the new system. I think she just missed with Evan. Really missed.
Lets also keep in mind that the general public doesn't have a sophisticated appreciation regarding choreography which explains some opinions. I even sometimes wonder about the judges depth of appreciation.
Evans component scores had to do with his body movement improvement, not the choreography.
I think your right. Tarasova is good at packaging a skater who has already learned all the necessary technical elements. As a choreographer, it seems when she selects the music, and theme of the programs pretty well. Then she needs to colaborate with a real choreographer for the movements, especially in the new system. I think she just missed with Evan. Really missed.
Lets also keep in mind that the general public doesn't have a sophisticated appreciation regarding choreography which explains some opinions. I even sometimes wonder about the judges depth of appreciation.
Evans component scores had to do with his body movement improvement, not the choreography.
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- Feb 5, 2004
What a strange thing to say. People (judges and audiences alike) were stunned by Kulik's and Yagudin's artistry, as well as by their technical prowess.
Which "people"? I am one of the "people" who was underwhelmed by Kulik. He deserved his titles but i never saw the "artistry" that people gushed about. I have had the opportunity to see him live in exhibitions twice though, and the first time i was blown away by his speed and edging. Using three quick froward skulls he'd moved practically from one end of the rink to the other. I enjoyed his programs the first time, but the second time i was left cold by both exhibition programs. As a general observation i went back to some of his competitive programs after i'd seen him live and still didn't feel much towards them.
While i do love winter as a short program i will never forget the first time i saw the straightline step sequence and fell about laughing at what i described on a newsnet newsgroup at the time as the "ridiculous toe-picky-picky steps". I was never sure they particularly went with the music in that program, and while i appreciate the difficulty it was the one part of the step sequence i hated. I hate it even more now knowing what it would mean in terms of skaters copying it and also the fact it would make it into the COP!
That said i loved a number of Yagudin's competitive programs and his move to TAT really shows in his programs. The mechnical element checking LP of 1998 is not one i care to watch again.
Ant
Oh well, some think she has, others think she hasn't. Different strokes.
Sure they had. But I'm willing to give TAT a chance if what she's created for Mao, will work. Mao Asada winning her second consecutive World title by skating a beautiful and powerful routine. I'm sure, people will love that.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I really do not think the term 'artistry' is correct. Wouldn't it be better to say 'likeable program"? Even the scores of today's competitions refer to that portiond of the competition as Program Component! - not even Performance Component. Sorry, but I just raise an eyebrow and tilt my head when I hear the word Aritistry. It just aint necessary in figure skating. It is not quantifyable. It is not Ballet.
In Evan's case, he will learn from this experience although he still gets higher scores than others because so much else is quantifyable (although rushed to score) that he can still podium.
For Tarrasova, she did her job.
In Evan's case, he will learn from this experience although he still gets higher scores than others because so much else is quantifyable (although rushed to score) that he can still podium.
For Tarrasova, she did her job.
Does anyone know who choreographed Mao Asada's two new exhibitions?
Por Una Ca
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zUub8nGY1Y&feature=related
Sing, Sing, Sing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZk7vEKpAOQ&feature=related
If it's Tarasova, I think she did a pretty good job, especially with Sing, Sing, Sing. I was really surprised Mao pulled it off so well.
Like posted earlier, she manages to bring out a skater's strengths.
ETA: my bad - Sing, Sing, Sing is choreographed by Lori Nichol. Props have to go to her instead!
Por Una Ca
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zUub8nGY1Y&feature=related
Sing, Sing, Sing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZk7vEKpAOQ&feature=related
If it's Tarasova, I think she did a pretty good job, especially with Sing, Sing, Sing. I was really surprised Mao pulled it off so well.
Like posted earlier, she manages to bring out a skater's strengths.
ETA: my bad - Sing, Sing, Sing is choreographed by Lori Nichol. Props have to go to her instead!
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
What a strange thing to say. People (judges and audiences alike) were stunned by Kulik's and Yagudin's artistry, as well as by their technical prowess.
A shame our US skaters can't match up. You sound rather jealous!
I wasn't stunned by Kulik or Yags either... I'm just saying *shrugs* I liked both (Alexei more than Ilia) just never watched in awe.
Kurt Browning on the other hand... he makes you sit up and really take notice.
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- Jun 18, 2008
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