The Flavors of the Month - Weir v. Gryazev

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's a little early to start this. We know Johnny but most of us have not really seen Gryasev except for Jrs. last year.

for those who have seen both at least of little bit, How do you compare and contrast them?

Joe

 

[windspirit]

Hmm...

OK, I'll try.

I didn't follow Johnny's skating that closely before this year's Nats, so I'm not sure if he can sustain this level of consistency for long. If he can - wow. IMO consistency is Andrei's weakest point. He also tends to get angry at himself when he makes a mistake, and after that the rest of his performance usually suffers.

I haven't seen Johnny live (at least I don't think I have, lol), so I can only comment on his skating from a tv perspective. And on tv his jumps at the Nats looked great. High, tight and effortless. Andrei's jumps can be spectacular. If he lands them, that is. Especially his huge 3a (some people say that because it's so huge he can't land it sometimes). I think he's a natural jumper. He also have 'cat's legs'; can save jumps not many people could.

Footwork: from what I've seen, I have to give Andrei the upper hand. He's definitely becoming one of the 'footwork guys.' I'd have to see Johnny do a more intricate footwork to form a more informed opinion about what he can do. I loved they way his whole body moved at Nats, but his footwork didn't have much complexity to it.

Spins: it's the area they both could work a little more on. I love Johnny's strange positions, and his line, but his spins could be faster. Andrei has a nice deep sit spin, and his camel position is exquisite, but generally his spins are much too slow (that is, they really slow down at the end). Btw, he used to do Biellmann (rather nice), but he got rid of it for this season. He does a few of Yags' spins instead. He plans to bring Biellmann back (but I hope he won't, since, like he said, it was hurting his back).

Andrei seems more passionate in his skating, while Johnny is more lyrical. They have different styles (and Andrei still hasn't really found his), I like them both very much. It's funny how both can flow on the ice, even if they do it differently (Andrei reminds me of Kulik quite a bit). As for their chances against each other right now -- most certainly Johnny would beat Andrei. The latter still has to learn how to skate as a senior, Johnny's shown at Nats that he can do it.

Btw, I don't know how successful Johnny has been in landing a quad in competition (I think he fell on it at last year's Nats?). I think I've read he lands it in practice with a 50% success rate. Tarasova's said (I think it was she) that Andrei does it in practice with a 75% success rate, but I doubt she'll put it in his programs in a near future. I think Johnny is planning to do one at Worlds, but I can be wrong.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Good Post, Windspirit!

While we will only see them battling it out for a third place on the podium along with several other 'top tier' skaters, I believe these two will be the wave of the future as rivals. While I am not a big fan of Plushenko, I do respect him as the top notch competitor who it seems is impossible to beat.

Back to Johnny and Andrei(?) - From what you say, I will add that Johnny may also self destruct with inconsistencies (I hope not but he has). As I remember Andrei skating against Lysacek, he did not impress me with the flow of skating. And yes, he did have good footwork but good footwork for me is a credit to the choreographer more than the skater who interprets it.

Jumps, until the CoP is the rule, is the way male skaters win medals together with a flare for thrilling the audience. Neither have thrilled me yet but I see the potential. Johnny has never landed a quad in competition. I don't think he even attemlpted one, although he does practice them.

Spins will come into their own when the CoP is the rule. I have seen Gryasev only once on TV, and his spins were fine but nothing overwhelming. And yes, Johnny, is not yet a fast spinner.

Which brings me back to wanting to see more of them. They are not yet in their 20s and so barring injuries, we should see more and more of them, hopefully.

Joe

 

[Ptichka]

About Johnny and footwork, I remember reading his on-line journal. He talked about how he never liked footwork, but when he started training with TT, she put a lot of emphasize on that. He described how at one point everyone -- TT, Usova, Sasha, and Alexei -- were all helping him with it

 

[shine]

I haven'ts seen that much of Griazev, but I think it's safe to say that Weir is by far the more polished and mature skater at this point. His elements are also cleaner and positions more prominent. Weir also has a very distinct style of his own while Griazev strikes me as a quite generic. That said, I think Andrei has a killer 3axel and Weir's is so so.

 

[Verbalgirl77]

With the exception of the '03 Nationals LP fluke, Johnny's hasn't had consistency problems. He's skated some very strong SP and LP performances over the years, and he's only 19.

I will add that the footwork sequence Arena choreographed into his LP this season is his weakest in years. He is capable of doing more difficult & exciting footwork and has done so in the past. I'm glad he's going to make some changes to the final minute of that program and I can't wait to see how it turns out.

I still think Lysacek is better than Griazev, the last time I saw him anyway. Hopefully he'll improve with Yagudin's tutelage since he already has great jumping talent.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I'd have to see Johnny do a more intricate footwork to form a more informed opinion about what he can do. I loved they way his whole body moved at Nats, but his footwork didn't have much complexity to it.

I didn't get home in time to set the TiVo to tape the Men's LP, and I only saw Weir's performance once, interrupted by well-meaning friends. But I was impressed by his footwork in the SP, which I've been able to watch a number of times. In his circular footwork, he had two sets of fast toe-turns, multiple changes of directions -- and not just two-three steps in the uncomfortable direction -- and turning threes in attitude position which had a bit of sweep to them. He had changes of edges and turns going into his 3F. His straightline sequence was mostly in one direction, but he really turned on the turns going out of the straightline and around the curve of the rink. It wasn't Yagudin style, nor was it emphatic, but I thought it very lyrical and that it worked well with the Sibelius score. I'm not saying the Graziev might not be better or have more complex footwork, but I don't think Weir's SP footwork was simple.

 

[sk8er1964]

I haven'ts seen that much of Griazev, but I think it's safe to say that Weir is by far the more polished and mature skater at this point. His elements are also cleaner and positions more prominent. Weir also has a very distinct style of his own while Griazev strikes me as a quite generic. That said, I think Andrei has a killer 3axel and Weir's is so so.

I've never seen Griazev skate, so I can't comment on him.

When I saw Weir's 3axel/3toe in the LP, I said to myself "Wow". Then when my son saw it later (on tape), he said "wow". When my mom saw it last night - same reaction. IMO, Weir's 3axel is pretty good too!