The Headless Spin

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Is this the most difficult spin in figure skating? I think so. To keep your balance in that position and spin fast is incredible. No one really can do it like Stephane, and very few try it.

I don't know if there is a base score for it, but I would think it beats a bielman.

Joe

 

[show 42]

Denise Beilman herself had one amazing headless spin......of course she's also Swiss...........enough said! 42

 

[PrincessLeppard]

Evgeni did a headless scratch spin during Carmen at COI 2002. I don't know why he's never included it in a competition program. *sigh*

 

[nicole_l]

Is this the most difficult spin in figure skating? I think so. To keep your balance in that position and spin fast is incredible. No one really can do it like Stephane, and very few try it.

Okay just from my personal experiences: a lot easier than spins with difficult positions (like a good camel or sit spin). But, I agree that it's difficult for the spin to be fast. I can't really generalize, though.

 

[Ladskater]

I don't know about most difficult spin, but one definitely has to be a good spinner in order to do this spin correctly. The skater has to be well centered. This spin is a varaition of the basic scratch spin.

Here is a discription of the spin:

Headless Spin
A variation on the basic scratch spin, the headless spin gives an illusion of the skater’s head disappearing at the peak of the spin. As the spin increases speed by pushing the free leg down, the skater brings his arms in toward his chest then raises them to neck height. With the arms positioned at the neck, the skater tilts his head back to look straight upward as the spin blurs. The head is hidden by the arms and skater appears to be a "headless" spinning blur. The spin must be perfectly centered to maintain balance during this maneuver.

 

[Glacierskater]

It is absolutely not the most difficult spin. I speak from experience.

 

[emma]

Didn't Sasha Cohen also do a headless spin? It gives me a headache to think about it...but it is TOTALLY WOW to watch!

 

[MasterB]

Its actually not that difficult, but its an effective spin(as all spins) when done right. Once you have a strong scratch spin, go for it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm getting a lot of "not difficult spin" but no one is suggesting what is a difficult spin except one poster who suggests camels or sitspins. Camels and sitspins are standard repetroire. They are practiced on a daily basis, and everyone has a camel spin and sitzspin. (Some of the boys can't make it all the way down in a sitzspin and what they do is even easier.)

The Bielman is a gift of genetics. Not that one who is so gifted doesn't have to work at it, but it is for those who are built for it.

All spins to me are equal when done properly and the real test for judging is staying centered. I think staying centered in a headless spin is the most difficult of all the spins. Try keeping your balance with your head dropped below your shoulders. Any spin position that is not text book s probably v.difficult. in terms of centering,

Joe

 

[nicole_l]

Camels and sitspins are standard repetroire. They are practiced on a daily basis, and everyone has a camel spin and sitzspin. (Some of the boys can't make it all the way down in a sitzspin and what they do is even easier.)

I agree with you. But, to get a very good position and to maintain your speed in either one of these spins is very difficult, and I personally think that a headless spin is easier than either one of these. Laybacks are even tougher.

I think I'm just an awful spinner.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Is this the most difficult spin in figure skating? I think so. To keep your balance in that position and spin fast is incredible. No one really can do it like Stephane, and very few try it.

I don't know if there is a base score for it, but I would think it beats a bielman.

Joe

I'd like to see more skaters do headless spins. IMHO, this is one of the most interesting spins out there, and it, indeed, looks very difficult to do.

 

[soogar]

I'd like to see more skaters do headless spins. IMHO, this is one of the most interesting spins out there, and it, indeed, looks very difficult to do.

Then will we be crying for skaters to stop doing them if they have to pull out of events due to whiplash?

 

[sk8rpatty]

As someone else said, the key is having a well centered, fast scratch spin. Once this is achieved, dropping the head back is easy. I had one at the end of my program last year...and I'm just an 41 yr old adult skater who is still struggling to land my first double.

 

[Mathman]

To me, the plain old scratch spin, a la Dorothy Hamill, still takes the cake. (#2 -- the plain old layback, a la Peggy Fleming.)

I have to say that I am not impressed with difficulty for the sake of difficulty. Take Johnny Weir's donut spin, for instance (please). Especially the position where he sticks his hands straight down to give the impression of a jellyfish with tentacles hanging down. I have no doubt that it is very hard to do. But I wish he wouldn't.

MM

 

[Piel]

ITA MM! Some of the spins are like the ugly lifts in ice dance just that UGLY. Isn't there any way CoP can insist that that moves not only be difficult but also must have some aesthetic value? Why not give more credit for an excellent scratch, camel, or layback? Some of these ridiculous looking moves may add difficulty but they take away from the aesthetics of the program. IMO "moving the sport forward " by the addition of contortionist moves to the detriment of line and edging isn't really moving the sport forward at all. You are going one step forward technically but two steps backwards artistically.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As someone else said, the key is having a well centered, fast scratch spin. Once this is achieved, dropping the head back is easy. I had one at the end of my program last year...and I'm just an 41 yr old adult skater who is still struggling to land my first double.

well centered, fast! Can we also suggest that for ALL spins? Once you have that any spin is easy! If you have your head in a fast well centered spin and looking at the stars without losing your balance you should be in the Olympics. Of course some people will do a headless for two rotations. Yup, that's easier.

btw, how would you rate Irina's travelling Bielman spin?

Joe

 

[backspin]

I'm getting a lot of "not difficult spin" but no one is suggesting what is a difficult spin except one poster who suggests camels or sitspins. Camels and sitspins are standard repetroire. They are practiced on a daily basis, and everyone has a camel spin and sitzspin. (Some of the boys can't make it all the way down in a sitzspin and what they do is even easier.)
Joe

But you're forgetting that everyone has these, & practices these for years, because they are requirements--both for testing and for competition. If the headless spin were required, everyone would have one of those, too. It's not that they're necessarily easier to do, but that they get more practice time allotted to them.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

But you're forgetting that everyone has these, & practices these for years, because they are requirements--both for testing and for competition. If the headless spin were required, everyone would have one of those, too. It's not that they're necessarily easier to do, but that they get more practice time allotted to them.

Yeah, I agree. Practice, practice practice and you will get the camel change camel. Not difficult once well practiced. A headless spin is not a standard scratch spin It is a variation on a cross foot spin. I believe only the standards are required. Is a Bielman required?

The headless spin is a crowd pleaser and why don't more skaters utilize it if it so easy? I believe it would get more bonus points than a scratch spin.

Joe

 

[sk8rpatty]

well centered, fast! Can we also suggest that for ALL spins? Once you have that any spin is easy! If you have your head in a fast well centered spin and looking at the stars without losing your balance you should be in the Olympics. Of course some people will do a headless for two rotations. Yup, that's easier.

btw, how would you rate Irina's travelling Bielman spin?

Joe

I guess what I was trying to say is that the difficulty lies in obtaining a fast, centered scratch spin, not in placing the head back. If the spin is not centered, don't bother puting the head back...or you will be on you a**. I did get very dizzy after performing this spin, which is why it's always placed at the end of a program. It would be very difficult to skate after it.

Watching anyone who is doing a badly traveling spin makes me cringe, so no, I'm not impressed by Irina's bielman when it travels all over the place.

I have always been a big fan of Todd Eldredge and his pure spinning capabilities.

 

[soogar]

Yeah, I agree. Practice, practice practice and you will get the camel change camel. Not difficult once well practiced. A headless spin is not a standard scratch spin It is a variation on a cross foot spin. I believe only the standards are required. Is a Bielman required?

The headless spin is a crowd pleaser and why don't more skaters utilize it if it so easy? I believe it would get more bonus points than a scratch spin.

Joe

Gee Joe, weren't you the one complaining about all the Biellmanns? Imagine if every skater did a headless spin...wouldn't that get tired also?

I read an interview with Lambiel and he said that he gets dizzy when he spins which is why he puts the spins toward the end of his program.