The Three Top Ladies of the Worlds
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Interesting remarks about Sasha and Michelle, but I kind of wish to read more remarks about Irina and Carolina as well as Sasha. They are the top 3 female skaters in the World at this point in time. What about:
Irina - The highest degree in technical at the moment.
Sasha - The most beautiful extensions at the moment.
Carolina - The highest degree of combos at the moment.
Joe
Irina - The highest degree in technical at the moment.
Sasha - The most beautiful extensions at the moment.
Carolina - The highest degree of combos at the moment.
Joe
back to top three
I have to go back and look at scores, but aren't Sasha's spins level 2 and 3 also? I mean in addition to being absolutley beautiful, aren't they technically 'advanced' too? In that regard, I could imagine Sasha 'going after' Irina (a points going after) in the spin department, and winning, since she has the beautiful positions, but also fast, well centered, change of position...
Someone will have to tell me out of those top three at worlds, who had the most difficult - technically - footwork; I'm thinking it was Irina, Carolina, then Sasha in that order. Irina's power/strength really shows through in her footwork, particularly all the one footed stuff, I'm wondering if this is an area where Carolina can work to put the pressure on Irina. I need someone to help me out with Sasha's footwork....i just don't know remember at the moment (coffee not kicked in fully yet).
I think in jumps Carlolina and Irina could potentially go head to head, with the later a real threat if her confidence/consistency holds (i'm thinking SP point advantage to carry into LP) and/or if Irina's health wavers. Without wanting to offend anyone, I think this will prove to be Sasha's achilles heel; NOT because she can't jump, but because it is where she falters in key competitions.
Cheoreography...here i think Sasha and Carolina in that order could really, really put pressure on Irina; unless Sasha decides to frontload to hit the jumps...then it will depend on Carolina's program.
I have to go back and look at scores, but aren't Sasha's spins level 2 and 3 also? I mean in addition to being absolutley beautiful, aren't they technically 'advanced' too? In that regard, I could imagine Sasha 'going after' Irina (a points going after) in the spin department, and winning, since she has the beautiful positions, but also fast, well centered, change of position...
Someone will have to tell me out of those top three at worlds, who had the most difficult - technically - footwork; I'm thinking it was Irina, Carolina, then Sasha in that order. Irina's power/strength really shows through in her footwork, particularly all the one footed stuff, I'm wondering if this is an area where Carolina can work to put the pressure on Irina. I need someone to help me out with Sasha's footwork....i just don't know remember at the moment (coffee not kicked in fully yet).
I think in jumps Carlolina and Irina could potentially go head to head, with the later a real threat if her confidence/consistency holds (i'm thinking SP point advantage to carry into LP) and/or if Irina's health wavers. Without wanting to offend anyone, I think this will prove to be Sasha's achilles heel; NOT because she can't jump, but because it is where she falters in key competitions.
Cheoreography...here i think Sasha and Carolina in that order could really, really put pressure on Irina; unless Sasha decides to frontload to hit the jumps...then it will depend on Carolina's program.
brad640 said:
I believe I said she changed her spiral sequence, and adding a second 3 flip to me means very little, so she does 2 Lutz and 2 flips, a toe and falls on the salchow, so in essence she only does 3 of the 5 triples normally performed by the ladies. I had forgotten about the 3-2-2 but most skaters are doing them now so it's not like it is a great technically feat, Amanda Valentine did on when she won the Novice title (2004) in Canada did a 3-2-2.
jesslily said:
Irina and Sasha are defiantly the top two skaters in the world at this time.
Irina overall has the best jumps in the world, on an individual jump say like the Lutz another skater might be better, but she has the best set of jumps. She has done a 3/3/2 in competition. Her spins are second only to Sasha. Her spiral sequence even if you don't like it is incredibly difficult and is very well performed. I think she has the best step sequence because she does most of it on one foot. Without great basics she could not do the above. So I would easily place her as the top skater.
Sasha to my mind is the second best skater; even through I prefer her style to Irena’s. She has decent set of jumps; she is the best ladies spinner at this point. Her extensions and lines are to die for. She easily has level three spirals and as Paul Martine said should get +3 on it. She also has great step sequences. And like I said about Irena she could not do what she does without great basics. So again easily the second best skater.
However that third spot is wide open however to my mind for a skater to aromatically grab that spot the would have to have
All level two spins, step and spiral sequence
And a complete compliment of jumps.
Currently one one has done the above
To be considered for spot you would have to have
Some level two spins, step and spiral sequence
And a complete compliment of jumps.
So the above criteria leave out the following skaters Michelle Kwan, Fumie Suguri, Elena Liashenko.
However the following skaters can be consider for that spot. Carolina Kostner, Miki Ando, Elena Sokolova, Susanna Poykio, Shizuka Arakawa, Joannie Rochette, Julia Sebestyen
I would have a tendency to give the nod to Shizuka Arakawa since she is problem the best of the above. However Carolina Kostner, Susanna Poykio, Joannie Rochette and Julia Sebestyen are running close behind.
By the way what does looks have to do with weather or not someone is a great skater.
I have never really understood why people think so many of the current female skater are beautiful. Most are pretty but few are above average pretty.jesslily said:
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
You would put Elena and Julia over Michelle? Both of them have absolutely frightening presentation. Also, you say Sasha has great basics. Well, if she has great basics, why are her edges so shallow, her stroking so slow and why does she flutz?
SparkleSk8er said:
If you read my whole post you would note that the reason I put the reason Elena and Julia in the possible third place position is that they both fit my criteria for third best skater while Michelle doesn't.
I get really tired of people talking about Sasha's edges, her edges may not be the best in the world but she is certainly better than most. She would not be getting the skating skills marks she does without great basics. Having seen her live, she is no slower than most of the other top skaters except for Carolina Koster (from Italy to Canada at Mach 5) and Joannie. I feel the reason so many ladies have trouble with the Lutz is because they lack the upper body strength to over come the counter rotation. The fact that Sasha is tinier than most probably compounds this problem.
The same lack of Upper body strength probably stops many ladies from doing the triple Axel, because many probably could do the 3½ rotations but the mechanics of the jump make it very hard for them. If you remember Tanya Harding and Midori Eto both chunkier than you average skater now and that is probably why they could do the Axel
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
Huh?
Call me a silly uber but I think its short sighted to drop MK out of the top three in the world based on Worlds... particularily if we are going to hold up Irina & Sasha as the standard by whom all are judged...
KW
Call me a silly uber but I think its short sighted to drop MK out of the top three in the world based on Worlds... particularily if we are going to hold up Irina & Sasha as the standard by whom all are judged...
KW
mzheng said:
Okay why isn't she doing it now? I never said that at one point she wasn't one of the top three skaters, but at this point in time her technical skills have regressed enough that she isn't.
At one time I would have said that Alexi Y. was the best male skater but I wouldn't now because he lacks certain jumps. The same with Elvis, if you don't use it you lose it and as far as I can see MK has lost it, and from what I have observed over the last 3 years she should little inclination toward regaining these lost skills nor has she ever to my mind been a skater would pushes the sport technically.
Michelle's jumps have most definitely improved the past three years. They are much bigger and stronger. The loop has always been a problem, but it will be back this season ... bank on it!
Her spiral is second to none. Sasha may be able to stick her skate in her ear ... yes she gets the best extension of any skater ... but on her best day she cannot match the strength of MK's COE spiral. Clearly though, I think her spirals are magnificent too.
And if we don't want Michelle to repeat her same spiral again, let's get something new from Sasha and Irina too. What on earth would Irina do without a Bielmann?
Her spiral is second to none. Sasha may be able to stick her skate in her ear ... yes she gets the best extension of any skater ... but on her best day she cannot match the strength of MK's COE spiral. Clearly though, I think her spirals are magnificent too.
And if we don't want Michelle to repeat her same spiral again, let's get something new from Sasha and Irina too. What on earth would Irina do without a Bielmann?
Kwanford Wife said:
Okay why shouldn't we use Irina and Sasha a the current standard along with all the other things I have said.
Irena is
4 time European Champ. 2 time silver medallist
2 time World Champ, 3 time silver medallist
Olympic silver medallist
And has won Several Grand Prix finals
Sasha is a consecutive two time silver medallist
Who else would we use? And it is not just this Worlds it is worlds in 2004 and to a certain extend 2003 and 2002
nymkfan51 said:
Why should I bank on it? My opion is based on the fact that she has said that she has to up the anti but hasn't. Yours seems to be based on what you want.
nymkfan51 said:
The opion that MK's spiral is second to none does not seem to be held by either the technical caller or the judges
nymkfan51 said:
Both Sasha and Irina have changed their spirals over the last 3-4 years several times MK hadn't changed hers for 9 years.
What I want is for the best skater of the night to win the Olyimpics not for it to be a life time acheiment award like it nearly was the last time. And for people to base their judgments on what the skaters are doing now not what they did 2-3 years ago.
janetb said:
When your spiral already the best in the world what's to change for?.Sasha changed to achieve better COE after edge change. Before her COE spiral almost like a diagnol line on ice, though really stunning on TV screen with her fully splited free leg. Irina changed to B spiral because she can't achieve her free leg position without lowing her up boday that make her traditional spiral position (note that I mean position, not the edge) far less attractive than Sasha and Michelle's.
Finally, they are going to compete to each other. Not compete with themselves. If ppl shouldn't base their judgement on what MK did 2-3/3-4 years ago. Why should you base your judgement on Sasha and Irina's spiral on 3-4 years?
That's the whole point, attyfan had asked you. Do you still hate to see MK win even if she is the best skater of the night? I bet you do.
Kwanford Wife said:
I don't know who this is directed at, but didn't Joe ask about the three top women from worlds? If i''m confusing threads i apologize, but i wrote and in fact asked questions about Irina, Sasha, and Carolina because they were the three top women at worlds, not because i necessarily think they are the three top women period. I will say that I believe they are among the top....and it's no secret I'm an uber michelle fan; I was just trying to have a discussion about the technical strengths and artistic strengths of those particular three.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
janetb said:
Please. Let's not get into a listing of their records. Why? Because I'm at work & don't have time to type out MK's LOONNNGGG list of wins ~ mainly on the backs of Irina & Sasha.
Here's how I look at it, records aside...
Irina is a sloppy skater. I've been a fan of hers for years, but she's sloppy. Her jumps are sloppy, her spiral w/o the bielman is terrible (even though that edge she gets is a thing of beauty), her spins travel & her presentation is not that great.
Sasha... well, Sasha is Sasha. Yes, she's earned her two world silver medals and her GP titles but there are always questions to her skating. When will she fall? Did she flutz? What's up with her stroking & edging? When will she win?
Just to go back to my original point of basing it on '05 Worlds results & to respond to your comment about 04 & 03 ~
In '04 DivaKwara kicked *** but dropped to 6th place this year. MK, came in 3rd based on a lousy QR but beat Sasha, who stayed on her feet, in the long.
In '03 MK won Worlds but the Silver medalist Sokolova hasn't really done much since and Sasha didn't make the podium... At both of those two previous Worlds, Irina's health prevented her from being competitive (no show @ 03 & 9th @ 04).
I won't even go into the other skaters you listed because I'm not sure what your point is in comparing MK to Julia & the rest...:scratch:
To wrap this up, I'd say that while Irina & Sasha are great skaters, but they both had career defining skates at this year's Worlds... If they are going to be the standard, then MK, who's record speaks for itself, cannot be excluded from the list of who sets the gold standard.
KW
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Right you are, emma. the intent of the topic was to discuss the three top ladies from the worlds competition. There was no attempt by me to exclude Michelle, or for that matter, Susanna Poykio among the top skaters in the world. It was just to get a feel from other GS members on their thoughts of the Worlds podium skaters and how those three are standing up now in anyone's mind.emma said:
Those 3 are going into the Olys as the reigning Worlds podium skaters. Maybe the GPs will change our minds. Keep tuned.
Joe
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
The Big Three
Onto the ice, the big three come
Dum diddy dum diddy dum dum dum.
These are the gals that we came to see
Dum diddy dum diddy dum dee dee.
Here comes 'Rina, got her game face on
Ding diddy ding diddy ding ding dong.
Carolina, she's a whole new thing
Ding diddy ding diddy ding ding ding.
Sasha's here, got wings on her feet
Twee tweedle twee tweedle tweet tweet tweet.
Bells and whistles, pipe and drum
Onto the ice the big three come.
But don't look back or you're out of luck,
'Cause here comes Shelly like a big Mack truck.
They reach for the gold, only one can grab it,
Who's the wolf and who's the rabbit?
Shelly's gonna beat you like a big bass drum
Dum diddy dum diddy dum...
Dum...
Dum.
Pete
Onto the ice, the big three come
Dum diddy dum diddy dum dum dum.
These are the gals that we came to see
Dum diddy dum diddy dum dee dee.
Here comes 'Rina, got her game face on
Ding diddy ding diddy ding ding dong.
Carolina, she's a whole new thing
Ding diddy ding diddy ding ding ding.
Sasha's here, got wings on her feet
Twee tweedle twee tweedle tweet tweet tweet.
Bells and whistles, pipe and drum
Onto the ice the big three come.
But don't look back or you're out of luck,
'Cause here comes Shelly like a big Mack truck.
They reach for the gold, only one can grab it,
Who's the wolf and who's the rabbit?
Shelly's gonna beat you like a big bass drum
Dum diddy dum diddy dum...
Dum...
Dum.
Pete
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