The US Nationals Ladies Podium

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I thought Alissa this year was very careful of her jumps and losing a bit of her style, but in Cleveland, she seemed to be getting style back especially in the SP.

Better she is careful and medal. All her coaches have done a good job.

 

[R.D.]

Let's see how Alyssa does at 4CC. To have a chance in LA, she needs to skate that SP the way she did in Cleveland.

 

[bekalc]

Czisny deserved to score about 5 points extra on the spins in comparison to Flatt and 2 points extra on the Spiral Sequence

Sigh. Something tells me in your "count" your not taking note of the fact that Flatt does one spin where she spins in two different directions. Something that is very difficult to do. That alone should make up a few of the "spin point differences" maybe 2.

 

[krenseby]

Let's see how Alyssa does at 4CC. To have a chance in LA, she needs to skate that SP the way she did in Cleveland.

A chance at what though? At top 10? I mean, everybody wants to see Alissa "do well" at Worlds, but doing well means different things to different people!

 

[R.D.]

A chance at what though? At top 10? I mean, everybody wants to see Alissa "do well" at Worlds, but doing well means different things to different people!

Yes, top 10, but I was keeping in mind placements for three Olympic spots.

But top 10 would be an accomplishment for her, considering that last time she was here she placed 15th. HOWEVER, as the reigning US Champion, that puts a bit more pressure on her overall. Imagine if the US Champion can't even place in the top 10 in the World! For as long as I can remember, the US Champion has placed top 5 at Worlds.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Sigh. Something tells me in your "count" your not taking note of the fact that Flatt does one spin where she spins in two different directions. Something that is very difficult to do. That alone should make up a few of the "spin point differences" maybe 2.

Spinning in a different direction is a level feature, she already got credit for it. The spin itself was just average, so no bonus GOE. The change of direction also didn't highlight the music in any special way, so no reason for me to think it should get her extra points in the Program Components mark.

By the way, spinning in a different direction is not always difficult. It's very easy to do an upright spin in the opposite direction for a couple rotations. Joannie Rochette, among others (Kevin Van Der Perren, off the top of my head), have incorporated that move into spin combinations to gain an easy level and it comes off really poorly. Yet another example of a case where spins should be getting negative GOE across the board from the judges.

 

[Tesla]

For as long as I can remember, the US Champion has placed top 5 at Worlds.

Not last year.

 

[Tonichelle]

One criticism of the IJS is that it takes the drama out of the finale when someone racks up such big point lead in the SP that they can coast home.

I was thinking similar thoughts during nationals. the saying "you can't win the event with the short program, but you can lose it" just doesn't ring true anymore.

That being said, it does allow someone low in the ranks (or someone who pulled an early starting order) that chance to make the podium. So it evens the field in that way. We've seen a lot of placement jumps after a skater has a horrible short but fights back in the long (Lysacek at the Olympics is stuck in my mind...) So I can't truly fault the system.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Think of it this way: Czisny and Flatt place 6th and 7th at 2009 Worlds and earn 13 points to bring us 3 eligible skaters to a very unpredictable US Nats in 2010 for the Olys.

 

[HCOSurfer]

Not last year.

That's because the US champ was too young to go to worlds last year.

 

[museksk8r]

Think of it this way: Czisny and Flatt place 6th and 7th at 2009 Worlds and earn 13 points to bring us 3 eligible skaters to a very unpredictable US Nats in 2010 for the Olys.

I'm totally expecting only 2 Olympics spots for ladies. With Asada, Kim, Rochette, Kostner, Ando, Suguri, and Lepisto on the ice, it will be difficult for Flatt and Czisny to combine and finish 6th and 7th on a world stage, particularly Alissa, IMO. It would be the same story with any of the current US ladies.

 

[Andalusia]

Zhang has NOT been consistently underrotating her triples this season, or since last season after SA, for that matter. Only her 3-3 combo has been in question this season. Even then, it was ratified at SC during the long and in the SP at this year's Nats. It's not like Rachael hasn't been getting her triple-triples downgraded, either. In this year's long at Nats, Caroline actually received +GOE on her solo loop and no -GOE on her sal. I think she's definitely improved in sufficiently rotating her jumps.

 

[Mathman]

Alissa and Rachael will have two advantages going into worlds that may conceivably be enough to hold them up into 6th and 7th, if it is close in the bottom half of the top ten.

First, the home court advantage. At U.S. nationals in Ohio, Alissa got huge PCSs that the judges might have been a little more stingy with in Colorado, say. Just like Laura Lepisto winning over Carolina Kostner in Helsinki.

If Alissa gets 50 in PCSs in a typical international competition and 60 in Cleveland, maybe she will get 55 in Los Angeles.

The second thing is that everybody makes more money if the U.S. has a competitive ladies team at the Olympics. Since we don't seem to have any one star to pin our hopes on (barring comebacks ), maybe Olympic boosters in the U.S. can push quantity and hope that having three ladies increases the chances that someone will do a Sarah Hughes.

 

[R.D.]

...maybe Olympic boosters in the U.S. can push quantity and hope that having three ladies increases the chances that someone will do a Sarah Hughes.

If I had to put my money on anyone to do that, it would be Rachel Flatt. Still, I think too many people in skating seem to take her steadiness for granted (Yes, I'm talking to you NBC broadcast team). NO ONE is unbeatable or unshakable. Ice is slippery.

Still, having said that, if Rachel can skate the way she did in Cleveland, I think she's definitely in the top 10. So, that puts the US Olympic hopes on poor Alyssa. Is it too much to ask of her, and just say, ok, forget it- let's just assume we will only be able to send two Olympians in 2010?

P.S. I was watching Czisny's Gala skate just now. it strikes me how she stands out from the rest of the field nationally in terms of style and presentation. If she could just get her jumps down, I'd have no problem saying she's our best hope for a medal.

 

[Kimmie Fan]

I have this nagging suspicion that the one of the reasons why Rachael doesn't seem to get the score is because of her looks?

This is really a shallow reason but lets face it, Rachael is not the prettiest girl out there.
Does that allow judges, USFSA, media, and the fans to dismiss her performance more easily at a subconscious level?

 

[Mathman]

...ok, forget it- let's just assume we will only be able to send two Olympians in 2010?

On another thread Particle Man made the great point, so what if the U.S. only gets two ladies spots? Either way, we won't be contributing to America's pile of medals in the Games.

P.S. I was watching Czisny's Gala skate just now. it strikes me how she stands out from the rest of the field nationally in terms of style and presentation. If she could just get her jumps down, I'd have no problem saying she's our best hope for a medal.

Before Nationals, my fondest wish for Alissa was that she would somehow manage to win the U.S. Championship. That way, whatever else she did or didn't accomplish, that credential would be enough to give her legitimacy on shows like Stars on Ice.

Of course, now that she has that credential -- why not a world medal to go along with it.

 

[R.D.]

Just an aside...about a minute ago I received a reply to my good-luck message to Czisny. Just glad to know she saw it. :thumbsup:

 

[Mathman]

^

 

[Tonichelle]

Of course, now that she has that credential -- why not a world medal to go along with it.

Skating: where little Mathmen can have big dreams too...



oy, I need to get out more *facepalm*

 

[flying camel]

I have this nagging suspicion that the one of the reasons why Rachael doesn't seem to get the score is because of her looks?

This is really a shallow reason but lets face it, Rachael is not the prettiest girl out there.
Does that allow judges, USFSA, media, and the fans to dismiss her performance more easily at a subconscious level?

She is not bad looking, but she is still young. There is nothing wrong with looking young. But Rachael needs to learn to work with what she has. Everything she does from this point on has to be more flattening. The hair, makeup, the dress, everything. That is just the way it is.