Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating

ioanna said:
I never said only on this forum.
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Are you talking about in general? Because I actually get the impression that people either like her or are lukewarm okay with her. There are people who are unimpressed but you make it sound like she has the most haters among skating community compared to other skaters.
 
mcq said:
Are you talking about in general? Because I actually get the impression that people either like her or are lukewarm okay with her. There are people who are unimpressed but you make it sound like she has the most haters among skating community compared to other skaters.
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Yes, I'm talking in general. People either like her or dislike her, there is no in between. If you really want an example here's one: she's been called "Cheatoko" and "Roboko" here but on the other forum there is actually a person pretending to be her with the username "Cheatoko" and a picture of Gollum as their avatar. Does ridiculing her for something she's not responsible for as well as her physical appearance sound funny? You'd be surprised to know it actually does for some people.
 
ioanna said:
With the exception of Mao Asada, I think Satoko's skating feels the most authentic of the top skaters. She doesn't have to over-emote to hide basic skating flaws. She has the gift to convey emotions all the way to the tip of her fingers. She skates clean competition after clean competition, so I guess that's one of the reasons why she seems boring and never thrilling. Zijun Li only wishes she could have her stamina, because all that authentic performance comes to a halt from the moment she gets tired and makes multiple mistakes. For me, when I watched her Miss Saigon at Skate Canada (and even now) I got goosebumps. The music was speaking through her body and she had a piercing, commanding gaze. That performance made me go from just liking her skating to being her fan. There was nothing rehearsed and robotic about that, and there's still nothing robotic about her now. She is a breath of fresh air in a field full of posture issues, skating skills issues, consistency issues and so on. And she's only 18.

Thank you, Satoko Miyahara. I will now rewatch your Miss Saigon performance from Skate Canada and go back to the simple pleasure of enjoying your skating, no other words needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xppK9Mniv14
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I just watched that saigon program....already halfway through and I'm still waiting for a wow moment....I just don't get that. When you compare her program to Yuna Kim's miss saigon, it cannot compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTmXrd4Ggg....
 
chuckm said:
Tiny jumps and two 2a+3t don't represent "best skating skills" in my book, and apparently not in the ISU judges' book either. Although she was 4th in the FS at 2016 Worlds, she was 7th in Skating Skills:

9.07 Ashley WAGNER
8.89 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
8.61 Gracie GOLD
8.57 Anna POGORILAYA
8.54 Mao ASADA
8.50 Elena RADIONOVA
8.18 Satoko MIYAHARA
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I can't believe Evgenia's skating skills are that high. She should be below a lot of girls.
 
mcq said:
Are you talking about in general? Because I actually get the impression that people either like her or are lukewarm okay with her. There are people who are unimpressed but you make it sound like she has the most haters among skating community compared to other skaters.
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This is the impression I get here. But there are a few fans of all skaters who get defensive and make excuses whenever their favorites are criticized. IMO, the best fans are able to recognize that their faves have flaws too, and are willing to point them out.

topaz emerald said:
I think it's because of her small frame and she doesn't exactly look like a "doll" out there. Her jumps are so tiny, but she lands them, however, I think for me, she lacks artistry. Artistry is what moves me, no matter shape, face, or size. So when you combine lack of artistry with small jumps, there you have it. Like Tatiana tarasova put it between the comparison of satoko and marin.....the former does the same thing in terms of consistency, but doesn't move her, while the ladder is just "Japanese beauty",.....but I think Tat means Marin has the skills to complement her god-given beauty.....although I don't think Marin compares to Mao Asada.
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I don't like the idea that the difference between the girls is their appearance. Why make it about beauty? As for Satoko not looking like a "doll," I think she's really cute. I actually think her big eyes and cute round face, combined with her height, probably make judges underestimate her maturity. She looks like a junior and has the jumps of one, even if the rest of her skating is at the elite senior level.
 
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andromache said:
I didn't read through this whole thread so sorry for the probably inadvertent repetition.

The tiny jumps. I can't. Tiny, under/barely rotated jumps do not deserve the same amount of points as jumps with huge height and distance. The less height and distance you get on your jumps, the easier they are to land, IMO.

In addition, while Satoko has excellent choreography and skating skills, for me her interpretation leaves much to be desired. In that regard, Satoko is one note. Rather than feeling genuine or inspired, her programs feel very excellently and unfortunately rehearsed. I've never felt a sense of spontaneity from her--of course all skater rehearse and rehearse, but the GREATS achieve so much emotion or passion or freedom in their skating that they lose their sense of falsity. Satoko hasn't, IMO. Granted, maybe not many skaters do, but the perfection of her movements perhaps adds to the perception of falsity, whereas a skater with more choreographic imperfections seems more genuine, like Rika Hongo (IMO.) I think if her jumps were bigger, wilder, some of this critique would be irrelevant.
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you hit the nail on the head......I couldn't explain why her programs didn't cut it for me.
 
andromache said:
This is the impression I get here. But there are a few fans of all skaters who get defensive and make excuses whenever their favorites are criticized. IMO, the best fans are able to recognize that their faves have flaws too, and are willing to point them out.
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Are you saying I'm not able to recognize her faults?
 
Mrs. P said:
I'd like to see Satoko project more. Perhaps that is why certain folks aren't engaged with her skating or have misconceptions about her performance style. At Worlds live, I noticed that she was quite engaging with folks right in the Lower rows of the arena, but less so as you go farther up.

It's like a good singer without a mic. That person can sing well, but if you're in the rafters you won't hear it.

But Lauravvv is right, that is something that can be quite challenging and takes time to perfect. She seems to be a self-driven person, so she'll get there.
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I don't think she can project more....either you have it or you don't. Take Jun Hwan Cha for example, he's only 14 or 13, look how much soul is in his skating.
 
ioanna said:
Yes, I'm talking in general. People either like her or dislike her, there is no in between. If you really want an example here's one: she's been called "Cheatoko" and "Roboko" here but on the other forum there is actually a person pretending to be her with the username "Cheatoko" and a picture of Gollum as their avatar. Does ridiculing her for something she's not responsible for as well as her physical appearance sound funny? You'd be surprised to know it actually does for some people.
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Well, that is very mean and out-of line. Though I don't think this kind of mean and gross comments are exclusively only directed to her and don't happen to others. I know a lot of skaters have a few "haters" who said things that are crossing the line too. I actually read this thread from the first page, and in my opinion most if not all poster seems to be within line. Those who like her will praise her artistry, elegance, spins etc. While those who dislike/is unimpressed will say that they think she s boring/not exciting and point her flaws such as the size of her jumps and her prerotation. It sparks a discussion and in my opinion it is still overall a healthy discussion.
 
topaz emerald said:
I just watched that saigon program....already halfway through and I'm still waiting for a wow moment....I just don't get that. When you compare her program to Yuna Kim's miss saigon, it cannot compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTmXrd4Ggg....
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You've already stated that you don't think any of the current ladies are remarkable so :shrug: You can get your wow moments from Yuna's Miss Saigon and I can get mine from Satoko's Miss Saigon, that's perfectly fine.
 
ice coverage said:
For me, abandonment is not inherently a positive quality.
It is possible (and generally preferable, IMO) to convey emotion and passion without abandonment (which often feels overdone and fake, IMO).
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ice coverage...I respectfully have to agree with andromache. Abandonment is what separates the greatest artists from the mediocre ones.
 
mcq said:
Well, that is very mean and out-of line. Though I don't think this kind of mean and gross comments are exclusively only directed to her and don't happen to others.
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Perhaps it happens and I haven't seen everything. But from the things I have seen, Satoko has gotten a lot of out-of-line comments. I'm not trying to convince people of that, I'm just reacting to what I usually see. Her coach Yamato Tamura once said "From now until the Olympics, there will definitely be tough times, and in those times, when others nitpick and criticize her, I think it’s also my job to protect her so she won’t get hurt each time that happens.” Which kind of makes me suspect that Satoko does not only know what people write about her, but also that there are probably many more critics in the Japanese skating community than worldwide.
 
andromache said:
This is the impression I get here. But there are a few fans of all skaters who get defensive and make excuses whenever their favorites are criticized. IMO, the best fans are able to recognize that their faves have flaws too, and are willing to point them out.



I don't like the idea that the difference between the girls is their appearance. Why make it about beauty? As for Satoko not looking like a "doll," I think she's really cute. I actually think her big eyes and cute round face, combined with her height, probably make judges underestimate her maturity. She looks like a junior and has the jumps of one, even if the rest of her skating is at the elite senior level.
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I don't either, but that's just the way it is in life. For example, Julia Lipnitskaya was the darling of figure skating for awhile until her jumps could no longer hold up....
 
topaz emerald said:
I don't either, but that's just the way it is in life. For example, Julia Lipnitskaya was the darling of figure skating for awhile until her jumps could no longer hold up....
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It never seemed to me that Julia being the darling of figure skating had anything to do with her appearance.
 
Moria Polonius said:
It never seemed to me that Julia being the darling of figure skating had anything to do with her appearance.
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Well, I think Julia's appearance has something to do with her star quality in part. I wasn't closely following juniors until recently, but she stood out among the Russian youngsters during her junior period. Her flexibility and fierce eyes were reminded of Sasha and feline animals, so I liked her. I didn't like her Sochi season programs, so I lost my interest during the Olympic season unlike many others. You can call me shallow, but as she seems to lose some weight and to gain some muscle, she looks spectacular again. Her SP to a French music this season looks interesting as well.
 
Crossover said:
Well, I think Julia's appearance has something to do with her star quality in part. I wasn't closely following juniors until recently, but she stood out among the Russian youngsters during her junior period. Her flexibility and fierce eyes were reminded of Sasha and feline animals, so I liked her. I didn't like her Sochi season programs, so I lost my interest during the Olympic season unlike many others. You can call me shallow, but as she seems to lose some weight and to gain some muscle, she looks spectacular again. Her SP to a French music this season looks interesting as well.
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Crossover, I could not agree more. In fact, of all the russian girls, I am pulling for Julia to make a come back :)
 
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