Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating | Page 17 | Golden Skate

Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating

You have to know that figure skating, and any kind of performance, is geared towards a mass audience. Perception is more important than an individual's personal intention, unless you make that public to the media, such as Polina T talked about her SP this season is not about Game of Throne, it is about an artist not happy with her paintings. So many choice of music, has a dominant interpretation, following the movie/tv series storyline, and an alternative interpretation, which a skater/performer can alter. But unless you make your alternative interpretation known to the public, or your performance showed significant deviation from the original story, the mass audience would assume you follow the storyline of the original.
So it does not matter to the average audience, what Mao or Satoko or any other skater was thinking in their head, or they agree or disagree with the theme of the story, the perception is that they are portraying role of the leading Asian lady as in the original literature. So I am not projecting what they think, because it does not matter. I am only talking about the impact of choosing an "Orientalism" themed program.



When someone skates or dances to a piece of music, it means whatever the performer brings to it. Someone skating to Miss Saigon or Madam Butterfly does not mean they are propagating a "wrong" story. That would be like saying people who dance to rap are propagating violence.
 
Most people don't even know what the source material is. Music is music. When most anyone hears those pieces they are just going to think "that was lovely".
 
You have to know that figure skating, and any kind of performance, is geared towards a mass audience. Perception is more important than an individual's personal intention, unless you make that public to the media, such as Polina T talked about her SP this season is not about Game of Throne, it is about an artist not happy with her paintings. So many choice of music, has a dominant interpretation, following the movie/tv series storyline, and an alternative interpretation, which a skater/performer can alter. But unless you make your alternative interpretation known to the public, or your performance showed significant deviation from the original story, the mass audience would assume you follow the storyline of the original.
So it does not matter to the average audience, what Mao or Satoko or any other skater was thinking in their head, or they agree or disagree with the theme of the story, the perception is that they are portraying role of the leading Asian lady as in the original literature. So I am not projecting what they think, because it does not matter. I am only talking about the impact of choosing an "Orientalism" themed program.

By the same merit then, if perception is what matters (as in what the audience perceives from the skater through their skating), I do not perceive Satoko as a weak vulnerable Asian woman in her Miss Saigon performance XD (even though I am aware what the story is about). and seriously though, since when is being vulnerable a weakness unless one allows others to take advantage of it. It is a very human trait.
You have to ask yourself - for the audience to perceive her as the protagonist in Ms Saigon (thus personifying the weak Asian woman so often portrayed in Orientalism pieces) they would have to know the story pretty well.
How many in the audience really knows the storyline of Miss Saigon? How many have watched the play, if at all? Or do they just see it as another piece of music?
This is very dependent on the audience's personal level of knowledge, and usually people play to the lowest common denominator.
Not being glib here, but that is my take from it.

being Asian myself, I am not comfortable with aspects of Orientalism in Western literature/ art pieces. Though I also am not comfortable with painting things with a broad brush either. 'Right' or 'wrong' is the same thing on different side of the coin. I think it's rather unfair to put the responsibilities on these skaters (on top of their programs and what with they have to do, they gotta think whether or not the music is totally PC and even then there will ALWAYS be people who are offended anways. you can't make everyone happy) regarding their music choices. By the same merit, one can also argue if Yulia's Schindler's List is totally appropriate since the movie is about the genocide of the Jews. Is such a sombre event suitable to be skated to, to be reduced to spins and spirals, applauded and cheered when it is over? But that's figure skating for you. Somehow it always toeing the line between what is appropriate and what is not.

To be honest, I do think we should welcome more Asian-inspired music pieces that our skaters of Asian descent can skate to while embracing their heritage proudly.
For example, I absolutely love the medley of Korean folk songs that made up 'Homage to Korea' (I still rue the extremely short lifespan of that program, I wish Yuna would use it more!). Somehow I notice there is always that concern among skaters that such music wouldn't be embraced by Western audience. But Denis Ten did so well with his Silk Road program, and Hanyu with Seimei. Perhaps more of the ladies can follow suit :)
 
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If most people don't think beyond "that's a nice piece of music", I think that's actually fine. We don't know what percent of people would think this or that unless we do a survey with a random/representative sample. So this is a dead end.

At least, in this forum, people tend to dip deeper into top skaters program, and they know the back story of the music.

Another fact worth mentioning is skaters and their teams don't choose a music just because it is "a nice piece of music". They capitalize on the storyline (such as Yulia in SL) and do a character driven program.

Some programs try very hard to make sure viewers get that "I am playing this character", Yulia again, and Mao's Madama Butterly, especially with the butterflies on her costume, and Polina Edmunds/Alaine Chartrand...With Satoko's Miss Saigon, it was less obvious till the vocal came up in her music cut.

I agree with you that Asian skaters should be more brave to embrace their own culture, not the culture that they think it should be in other people's eyes. I think sometimes they think it is too risky to skate to a piece that Western judges don't understand. So when Christina Gao skated to Yellow River Concerto, I was really happy.

Sorry I have deviated from the topic of the thread.
 
A cute, solemn face. I could imagine any of the ladies (look-wise, not necessarily skating or expression-wise) pulling that off. Well, at least the way their faces look. I'd feel very uncomfortable with a blonde and blue-eyed Gracie Gold pretending to be the little girl in the red coat.
I don't want to be a know-it-all but the last time I looked Gracie Gold was a fake blonde with very dark brown eyes. And I think she would look much better with brown hair. But I agree with you that Gracie wouldn't have made a good little girl in the red coat, but for different reasons. She's too tall and too strong for that and I guess she would have looked too strong at 15 as well. By the way, it isn't a role that would fit Julia Lipnitskaya at this point in her career either. She's simply outgrown it, body and performance ability wise. It was only perfect for 15 year old Julia imho.
 
I have never thought of Kim from Miss Saigon as remotely "weak" or "vulnerable." She is a strong-willed, fearless and tenacious woman who was caught in turbulent and tragic times and who had no control of her fate. In the story, we see her standing up for herself against crooks, never giving up hope of reuniting with the love of her life, and ultimately sacrificing her life for her son. Viewing her as a submissive oriental lady is what I'd call "projecting." :coffee:
 
I don't want to be a know-it-all but the last time I looked Gracie Gold was a fake blonde with very dark brown eyes. And I think she would look much better with brown hair. But I agree with you that Gracie wouldn't have made a good little girl in the red coat, but for different reasons. She's too tall and too strong for that and I guess she would have looked too strong at 15 as well. By the way, it isn't a role that would fit Julia Lipnitskaya at this point in her career either. She's simply outgrown it, body and performance ability wise. It was only perfect for 15 year old Julia imho.
Gracie is NOT fake blonde. her hair color is much lighter than her twin sister. check out their baby photos. She may did some coloring to maintain that shade of blonde,which blonde people sometimes do. but even without any conditioning. I would consider her blonde instead of any brown shade.
 
Gracie is NOT fake blonde. her hair color is much lighter than her twin sister. check out their baby photos. She may did some coloring to maintain that shade of blonde,which blonde people sometimes do. but even without any conditioning. I would consider her blonde instead of any brown shade.

I'd say it was more a strawberry blonde. If you look at pics from her junior days, there is quite a bit of red.
 
Gracie is NOT fake blonde. her hair color is much lighter than her twin sister. check out their baby photos. She may did some coloring to maintain that shade of blonde,which blonde people sometimes do. but even without any conditioning. I would consider her blonde instead of any brown shade.
Ok, I correct myself: she's fake light blonde. I guess her natural hair is light brown / dark blonde (to me that's basically the same color).

I'd say it was more a strawberry blonde. If you look at pics from her junior days, there is quite a bit of red.
Do you really think so? I always thought she dyed it that way. It didn't suit her imo, strawberry blonde or any red tones don't go well with her skin tone. And I don't think that red hair suits Carly. But I can understand, I also dyed my hair red when I was younger. :) It took my a while to recognize that my natural hair color suited me best. My point is: I'd love to see Gracie with light brown/dark blonde hair. I think she would look classier.
 
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Ok, I correct myself: she's fake light blonde. I guess her natural hair is light brown / dark blonde (to me that's basically the same color).

I'm sure her natural hair color is brown by now. Very few blonde kids retain their light hair color into adulthood. And it is true she isn't a blue-eyed blonde. She has brown eyes.
 
I'm sure her natural hair color is brown by now. Very few blonde kids retain their light hair color into adulthood. And it is true she isn't a blue-eyed blonde. She has brown eyes.

many true blonde adults have brown eyes.

anyways, all these are not really about whether Gracie's hair is blonde or not. but people's personal biased projection of Gracie. better just use only "fake" instead.:biggrin:
 
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many true blonde adults have brown eyes.

anyways, all these are not really about whether Gracie's hair is blonde or not. but people's personal biased projection of Gracie. better just use only "fake" instead.:biggrin:

I never said that blondes can't have brown eyes. Even redheads can.

ETA: I found this. http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask220 It turns out that blonde hair and blue eyes are genetically linked but red hair and light eyes are not. Gracie's light (formerly blonde) hair and brown eyes are actually quite rare.

Another brown-eyed blonde: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-georges-birthday-22-things-8464999

Sorry for the major thread drift!
 
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FWIW, Marin continues to flub her SPs, so she's really not a huge threat to Satoko's No. 1 JPN status at this time.
 
FWIW, Marin continues to flub her SPs, so she's really not a huge threat to Satoko's No. 1 JPN status at this time.

Since when did Satoko have jpn 1 status, Asada has not yet retired for that to happen. and one national title against asada who had an offday does not change that, she doesn't even have 10 % the skating community's love and interest that Asada has, and let's not speak about talents that makes them two skaters in two different leagues!
 
Since when did Satoko have jpn 1 status, Asada has not yet retired for that to happen. and one national title against asada who had an offday does not change that, she doesn't even have 10 % the skating community's love and interest that Asada has, and let's not speak about talents that makes them two skaters in two different leagues!

Mao certainly is above Satoko as far as all-time skating, but I would think finishing above Mao at GPF, beating her at Nationals champ and had a higher placement at Worlds would, for the time being, cement Satoko's No. 1 status at this time.

Serena Williams is No. 2 at the moment. Doesn't change the fact she's a legendary tennis player, but someone else has the No. 1 spot.
 
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she doesn't even have 10 % the skating community's love and interest that Asada has, and let's not speak about talents that makes them two skaters in two different leagues!

Two different leagues more like two different eras. Asada's senior debut was 10 years before Miyahara's debut. Asada will probably keep being the best Japanese lady in history for a long time so there's no need to bring Miyahara down with your condescending comment.
 
Two different leagues more like two different eras. Asada's senior debut was 10 years before Miyahara's debut. Asada will probably keep being the best Japanese lady in history for a long time so there's no need to bring Miyahara down with your condescending comment.

She's great but I count Satoko as kind of "intermediary". Kind of like Kovtun is for the Russian men. The next "stars" will be Honda, Pitkeev et al. and their contemporaries.
 
Two different leagues more like two different eras. Asada's senior debut was 10 years before Miyahara's debut. Asada will probably keep being the best Japanese lady in history for a long time so there's no need to bring Miyahara down with your condescending comment.

They may be skaters from different eras but also skaters in different leagues, and I'm not trying to bring mihara down but it's just the simple truth, if Mihara retired today no one would care, or atleast not many. Mihara just didn't have anything that made her stand out and memorable, i can't name a single skate of her i would want to watch again or whom i found memorable, that may be just my personal opinion, but sasha who is also a silver medalist, is much more memorable in comparison, despite not having won much more, her skating style and spins and spirals made hr stand out, that can't be said about Mihara
 
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