Titanic curse 🙏

[VickB]

Lendendary scientist PH Nargeolet are among the missing.. We Canadians and Americans and whole world will pray for their safe return from the Titanic mission ...

PH Nargeolet who is missing on sub once gave warning on deep dives

French mariner Paul-Henry Nargeolet, 77, warned in 2019 that if something happens when a submersible is underwater 'you're dead before you realize that something is happening.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Arriba627]

This sounds really bad for the crew. They said on the news that they're searching an area the size of Connecticut. Lots and lots of prayers.

 

[surimi]

Hoping for a miracle to happen in the upcoming hours. I wish these things could have some sort of transponders like planes do, to be easy to locate even so deep underwater.

 

[elbkup]

Well they think they found it… at least a debris field at the Titanic site.. oh Lord
The guess is it imploded. From pressure
More in news at 3 pm today
Keep these souls in our hearts

 

[mrrice]

Yes, it was just flashed as breaking news. They haven't confirmed it yet but, I think this is it. So tragic.

 

[Amei]

Yes, it was just flashed as breaking news. They haven't confirmed it yet but, I think this is it. So tragic.

Its honestly looking like though that best case scenario of them not surviving happened in that it was relatively quick both in when it happened* and how it happened.
*when it happened: US Navy did detect a sound around the time the Titan lost communications that was consistent with an implosion - the ROV today really just confirmed it was the case.
*how it happened: most experts agree that a catastrophic implosion would have been a very quick end for the passengers, they might have been aware that there was something going on and they needed to abort the mission and weren't successful but once the failure of the sub happened death would have been instant - the other theories have been that they were sitting somewhere in the ocean in that sub waiting for a rescue that may not come before either running out of oxygen or breathing in too much CO2 killed them.

From what I've heard (PH was the only 1 I previously knew about) the passengers were adventure explorers, PH Nargeolet had dived to the Titanic for years, Stockton Rush the ocean was a passion project of exploration, Hamish Harding flew some crazy plane expeditions and went to space on Blue Origin, Shahzada Dawood loved the Titanic would watch 'A Night to Remember' (a movie that's more accurate to the actual Titanic accident than the 1997 movie) a lot and was doing a Father's day trip with his son Suleman. So I think for some of their families (including PH's stepson said in an interview) there can be some comfort that these guys died doing what they loved and were passionate about.

 

[mrrice]

I can't imagine the guilt the Father who brought his son on that trip must have been feeling. My heart would be breaking as the air ran out and you could see the sub beginning to implode. Just tragic

 

[Amei]

I can't imagine the guilt the Father who brought his son on that trip must have been feeling. My heart would be breaking as the air ran out and you could see the sub beginning to implode. Just tragic

Its important to note that experts of deep diving exploration don't believe the situation was something prolonged for the crew. At the pressure of that depth it would have been instantaneous, so over before they could likely even think about what was about to happen. The US navy heard a sound consistent with implosion when the sub lost communications with the ship that brought it out so less than 2 hours into the dive. Below is David Mearns, he was on Sky News speaking about it (he knew several of the passengers), he had confirmation because of his connections that they had found pieces of the sub before the Coast Guard announced it publicly:

 

[mrrice]

It that's true, why did they give us all false hope that they were trying rescue them? Why not just say "We have tragic news that there was implosion" The mother of the boy onboard said that he was afraid to go on this trip. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tanic-submarine-implosion-terrified-trip.html

 

[Amei]

It that's true, why did they give us all false hope that they were trying rescue them? Why not just say "We have tragic news that there was implosion" The mother of the boy onboard said that he was afraid to go on this trip. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tanic-submarine-implosion-terrified-trip.html

1. Experts did talk about the implosion possibility once it was reported missing
2. The sound was consistent with an implosion, im assuming there's still some requirement of confirmation before declaring a watercraft as destroyed in along with 5 lives (what if they had been wrong and the sub had been made it to the surface and everyone survived?). The fact is the ROV that found the wreckage of the sub found it within a few hours of being dropped in the ocean, it takes about 2 hours to get to the depth of the Titanic so it sounds like that ROV was sent with a pretty solid idea of where to put the ROV to find some evidence of the sub.
3. That article quotes the aunt of whom it mentions wasn't in contact with her brother (the 19 year olds father), so how much is she speaking from direct communication and how much from the glorious telephone game where info falls off/ gets added/misinterpreted.

 

[mrrice]

This is the report I'm speaking of. It was DAYS after they went missing. If they knew the sub had imploded, why did they continue the search for so many days.

Missing Titanic sub: Aircraft detected 'underwater noises,' USCG says

The US Coast Guard says a Canadian aircraft has detected underwater noises during search for a submersible that vanished while taking five people down to the...

www.youtube.com

 

[Amei]

This is the report I'm speaking of. It was DAYS after they went missing. If they knew the sub had imploded, why did they continue the search for so many days.

Missing Titanic sub: Aircraft detected 'underwater noises,' USCG says

The US Coast Guard says a Canadian aircraft has detected underwater noises during search for a submersible that vanished while taking five people down to the...

www.youtube.com

They didn't know for certain the sub had imploded just that there was a sound consistent with implosion, yes there were indications to it but they seemingly made the decision to not officially want to release that information. If you listen at the end of that report the reporter notes they are sending the underwater noises detected Tuesday/Wednesday for analysis, the ocean isn't a quiet place.

They are still looking for pieces of the wreckage now even though they know there was an implosion and there is no one that was on that sub to save because if they can find pieces then it might help provide more concrete information towards the preventing this from happening in the future.

 

[Amei]

A couple of interesting interviews with Bob Ballard (was part of the team that first found the Titanic wreckage) and James Cameron (yep, the director, he's also a deep sea explorer) talking about this tragedy. IMO you can really hear exasperation on Cameron's part regarding the search.

 

[Amei]

Article

Saw this article in my feed, Canada is looking whether a criminal investigation needs to be opened.

 

[mrrice]

Article

Saw this article in my feed, Canada is looking whether a criminal investigation needs to be opened.

I can imagine the paperwork to go on this trip was substantial. It will be interesting to see if this was labeled "At Will" or "At Your Own Risk" This trip is so expensive and I can imagine this company has deep pockets and plenty of Lawyers. Maybe they should just send camera's to that depth if they want to continue to document the site. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go on this trip after this.

 

[Amei]

I can imagine the paperwork to go on this trip was substantial. It will be interesting to see if this was labeled "At Will" or "At Your Own Risk" This trip is so expensive and I can imagine this company has deep pockets and plenty of Lawyers. Maybe they should just send camera's to that depth if they want to continue to document the site. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go on this trip after this.

**Disclaimer I'm not a lawyer**

Yes the participants did sign a big waiver - which has been mentioned in the media that death is listed as a possibility 3 times on the first page, but doesn't just protect the company from being sued by the participants or their estates - does that waiver really work as a 'get out of jail free card' if they are found to have been negligent rising to the level of criminal charges?

There's been talk that an employee was fired for voicing concerns about the safety of the sub, that people were imploring the company to get the sub certified. Now I know that Stockton Rush has paid for his mistakes with his life but was he the sole decision maker in that company?
Additionally the ship, the MV Polar Prince that brought the sub out, took 8 hours to report loss of contact with the ship. We do know now that there was a sound heard by the Navy consistent with an implosion on Sunday, but did the Polar Prince know about the implosion sound? Yes, in this instance the sub wasn't possible to be rescued but what if it had been? That time delay to report the sub missing was valuable hours of time and if the sub had been 'floating' that was 8 hours of it not being searched for and possibly drifting further away.

Maybe they should just send camera's to that depth if they want to continue to document the site. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go on this trip after this.

Doubt it stops people, its important to remember this type of submersible accident has never happened before and it was in a submersible that was using experimental technology for that industry and seemingly took an awful lot of shortcuts.

If people are interested, there are actually a lot of videos on Youtube and documentaries of the wreckage. The Titanic isn't going to be around a lot longer, its being eaten away by an iron eating bacteria, some estimates put the 'disappear' date as early as 2030 so I imagine some of these dives are done to document the progression of that. There was an OceanGate video with PH Nargeolet where he mentioned about always seeing something new with the wreckage. So I think that community isn't going to lock itself away, I think that's the complete opposite of their nature.

 

[mrrice]

**Disclaimer I'm not a lawyer**

Yes the participants did sign a big waiver - which has been mentioned in the media that death is listed as a possibility 3 times on the first page, but doesn't just protect the company from being sued by the participants or their estates - does that waiver really work as a 'get out of jail free card' if they are found to have been negligent rising to the level of criminal charges?

There's been talk that an employee was fired for voicing concerns about the safety of the sub, that people were imploring the company to get the sub certified. Now I know that Stockton Rush has paid for his mistakes with his life but was he the sole decision maker in that company?
Additionally the ship, the MV Polar Prince that brought the sub out, took 8 hours to report loss of contact with the ship. We do know now that there was a sound heard by the Navy consistent with an implosion on Sunday, but did the Polar Prince know about the implosion sound? Yes, in this instance the sub wasn't possible to be rescued but what if it had been? That time delay to report the sub missing was valuable hours of time and if the sub had been 'floating' that was 8 hours of it not being searched for and possibly drifting further away.


Doubt it stops people, its important to remember this type of submersible accident has never happened before and it was in a submersible that was using experimental technology for that industry and seemingly took an awful lot of shortcuts.

If people are interested, there are actually a lot of videos on Youtube and documentaries of the wreckage. The Titanic isn't going to be around a lot longer, its being eaten away by an iron eating bacteria, some estimates put the 'disappear' date as early as 2030 so I imagine some of these dives are done to document the progression of that. There was an OceanGate video with PH Nargeolet where he mentioned about always seeing something new with the wreckage. So I think that community isn't going to lock itself away, I think that's the complete opposite of their nature.

I agree with the last paragraph. I'm sure there are people who deep sea dive, or have been in several submersible vehicle's who see this as a risk they're willing to take. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[yesterday]

Maybe "tourists" will stop, but everything that's done for science and with correct preparation and suitable vehicles will go on. Firstly, if possible, they might want to salvage the Titan and corpses if there is anything to be found.

Secondly, the thought of such an enormous piece of history being lost (I also read about this a while ago and I've been to a Titanic exhibition and I'm quite sure it's been a topic there as well) is quite.. shocking actually. Mankind sadly has always managed to destroy important objects/places/buildings for different reasons, but here it's a situation where we can't accuse anybody. And until today, every little thought of salvaging the wreckage has been dropped of course. Maybe there's a way sooner or later, some kind of scientific breakthrough. Who knows.

 

[Amei]

They have started to bring to the surface the wreckage they've been able to find. There does look to be some substantial pieces of the submersible, so hopefully they can get data to the source of the failure to help prevent this from happening in the future.

there is a large section that's covered up with a sheet, my guess is they do have the hull where the crew was and they will be able to provide the families with remains. Not sure why else they would have it covered up.

Article

 

[icewhite]

Maybe "tourists" will stop, but everything that's done for science and with correct preparation and suitable vehicles will go on. Firstly, if possible, they might want to salvage the Titan and corpses if there is anything to be found.

Secondly, the thought of such an enormous piece of history being lost (I also read about this a while ago and I've been to a Titanic exhibition and I'm quite sure it's been a topic there as well) is quite.. shocking actually. Mankind sadly has always managed to destroy important objects/places/buildings for different reasons, but here it's a situation where we can't accuse anybody. And until today, every little thought of salvaging the wreckage has been dropped of course. Maybe there's a way sooner or later, some kind of scientific breakthrough. Who knows.

One of the subjects I did at university was Near Eastern Archeology. It was only a minor of mine, and I wasn't totally comitted to all the details or the community, but I learned quite a bit nonetheless.
Within a short amount of time during the war in Syria some of the most important remains of ancient human history and civilization were destroyed. There were some news about Palmyra because it's at least a place some people have heard of, but for instance the excavation site of one of the most important cities of the 3rd and 2nd millenium BC was basically completely destroyed and looted.

Mari, Syria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It has hit hard personally, but it's also an objectively incredible loss of cultural heritage.
Maybe that's why I don't feel much when I hear of the Titanic disappearing materially. Of course there is no actual need to compare, it would be good to save both, but still I think the Titanic has been researched very well, a huge amount of money and attention has been given, and in the end its importance for pop culture, in my eyes, exceeds its actual historical importance.
There are things that make people dream and fear and then lots and lots of money gets spent on it, while other things just disappear without much of a notice.
Don't want to make your feelings invalid, but I can't help but give my crumbs of feelings here.