Tuktamysheva's scores | Page 18 | Golden Skate

Tuktamysheva's scores

It was extremely one sided, which only made it worse. Liza was objectively better than Med last season and the idea that a biased council of judges could disregard that and trampled Liza's chances is pretty disgusting.

I mean, when they picked Plushy over Maxim K for Sochi, it was only after Maxim K performed catastrophically in a number of events. They didn't even give Liza that chance.

Not cool Coaches Council, not cool.

The only decision more unfair than that was the Swedish Olympic Fed refusing to let Alexander Majarov compete. Which I think was pretty much criminal. Like...a Fed shouldn't be able to do that to their athletes.

Re Alexander Majorov - It wasn't the fed; it was the Olympic committee - if you're not a gold contender, you're nobody. They probably have no clue about figure skating at all.

Re Liza's layout - I think they used Finlandia to try out a new layout; and then when Liza doubled a couple of jumps, they probably assumed she wasn't ready for it, and fell back on something more "safe". (Just my guess, of course - I could be totally wrong.:))
 
It was extremely one sided, which only made it worse. Liza was objectively better than Med last season and the idea that a biased council of judges could disregard that and trampled Liza's chances is pretty disgusting.

I mean, when they picked Plushy over Maxim K for Sochi, it was only after Maxim K performed catastrophically in a number of events. They didn't even give Liza that chance.

Not cool Coaches Council, not cool.

The only decision more unfair than that was the Swedish Olympic Fed refusing to let Alexander Majarov compete. Which I think was pretty much criminal. Like...a Fed shouldn't be able to do that to their athletes.

I would have picked Zhenya too, and I actually like Liza more


The reason is simple and ignored by those who claim it was disgusting not to put Liza on World Team.

Liza had not even been on the World Team since she won WC in 2015, her results were lackluster/poor until the start of 18/19 season, while during that same period Zhenya had won 2 World Titles, an Olympic silver medal, European and GP titles too.
Zhenya's 18/19 season wasn't going great but she was fighting hard, her FS at Nationals had real fire.

Doubts about Zagitova may have played their part also. 2018 Worlds, Alina bombed her FS and no Russian ladies on the podium. Zhenya wasn't there and had she been able to perform how she did at Olympics, could have medalled or straight up won it.
Zagitova was struggling, poor FS at Nationals and Europeans but she was on the World Team no matter what.
Zhenya was not just a bigger fan draw for Worlds but still had higher scoring potential than Liza historically.
 
I would have picked Zhenya too, and I actually like Liza more


The reason is simple and ignored by those who claim it was disgusting not to put Liza on World Team.

Liza had not even been on the World Team since she won WC in 2015, her results were lackluster/poor until the start of 18/19 season, while during that same period Zhenya had won 2 World Titles, an Olympic silver medal, European and GP titles too.
Zhenya's 18/19 season wasn't going great but she was fighting hard, her FS at Nationals had real fire.

Doubts about Zagitova may have played their part also. 2018 Worlds, Alina bombed her FS and no Russian ladies on the podium. Zhenya wasn't there and had she been able to perform how she did at Olympics, could have medalled or straight up won it.
Zagitova was struggling, poor FS at Nationals and Europeans but she was on the World Team no matter what.
Zhenya was not just a bigger fan draw for Worlds but still had higher scoring potential than Liza historically.

I don't deny Zhenya Med's past achievements and I was very happy that she did well at Worlds, I'm a fan.

However, it seems wrong to me that her past achievements be given so much weight, after all Liza didn't get a pass to the 2016 World's despite being the defending champion. She didn't even get a chance at Euros 2016... Why should Med get more consideration? If nothing else it makes the Russian Fed look really biased, which apparently they are, but that doesn't make it right.

After all Alina Z has even more achievements (Olympic gold medallist) but will the same people who are "Whatever" about Liza been left off the World's team last year be happy if the Russian Fed put Alina in the World's team over one of the 3A because her record's better?
 
I don't deny Zhenya Med's past achievements and I was very happy that she did well at Worlds, I'm a fan.

However, it seems wrong to me that her past achievements be given so much weight, after all Liza didn't get a pass to the 2016 World's despite being the defending champion. She didn't even get a chance at Euros 2016... Why should Med get more consideration? If nothing else it makes the Russian Fed look really biased, which apparently they are, but that doesn't make it right.

After all Alina Z has even more achievements (Olympic gold medallist) but will the same people who are "Whatever" about Liza been left off the World's team last year be happy if the Russian Fed put Alina in the World's team over one of the 3A because her record's better?

Like Mishaminion said above, Zhenya had Olympic silver, was a 2x world champion and was undefeated for almost 2 years. Liza has nowhere near those achievements. This is just how skating feds work, and i'm not going to give my personal opinion on it or say whether it's right or wrong, but it's a similar situation to when Ashley Wagner was named to the 2014 Olympic team- she was the leading US lady for 3 years at that point and had the track record to prove it.

i posted something regarding who will be left off the world team this year in the Russian ladies thread a few days ago, and nobody is going to be happy no matter who the team is. all 4 girls are just so talented, and it will be extremely sad for whoever is left off, and there will be many people upset no matter who it is. Alina has a huge chance of making the team, especially if she has a good season. honestly i can't see them leaving her off mainly because of her past achievements, unless she bombs more than once this year.
 
Tuktamysheva's in my opinion lately receives way too high PCS, to be frank. Her skating skills are very juniorish if not worse, with very shallow edges, slow skating and extremely messy steps and turns. Her performing also mostly consists of flailing her arms around and making faces, which takes far less effort than the way someone like Bradie Tennell performs, even though she's certainly not a favorite of mine. Tennell also objectively has much, much better skating skills and is far stronger in terms of transitions. Honestly, the PCS difference could be even greater than it was between the two.

In terms of tech, Tuktamysheva does jump two 3As indeed, but the rest of her layout is very suboptimal. She only jumps 7 triples, and even does a +SEQ on a 3Lutz, which removes 30% of her 3Lutz BV for no good reason. Perhaps the GOEs could have been higher and indeed, she might have deserved to defeat Tennell had Bradie not been getting a home scoring advantage, but Tuktamysheva's program layout leaves way too many points on the table. Tennell's program with correct delivery has around 62 BV, Tuktamysheva's around 67. That's a ridiculously low gain for doing two 3As. If we look at Anna Shcherbakova's layout, she's at 80 points. With two 3As she can do Anna's layout with just the quads replaced with 3As, so that'd bring the expected BV to 73. Hence, Tutktamysheva loses some 6 points by doing her layout instead of Anna's, which is greater a loss than what Tuktamysheva even is gaining by doing two 3As instead of your usual 7 triple program. That's why it's important to not just consider the highest difficulty elements.

By the way, this is the strength of Eteri girls' layouts in general. The quads are cool and all, but even if they fall, the rest of the layout is so strong it's still a significant gain. A skater like Tuktamysheva can't do that, if she falls it's a worse performance than it'd have been if she didn't include them at all.
 
I don't deny Zhenya Med's past achievements and I was very happy that she did well at Worlds, I'm a fan.

However, it seems wrong to me that her past achievements be given so much weight, after all Liza didn't get a pass to the 2016 World's despite being the defending champion. She didn't even get a chance at Euros 2016... Why should Med get more consideration? If nothing else it makes the Russian Fed look really biased, which apparently they are, but that doesn't make it right.

After all Alina Z has even more achievements (Olympic gold medallist) but will the same people who are "Whatever" about Liza been left off the World's team last year be happy if the Russian Fed put Alina in the World's team over one of the 3A because her record's better?

A better track record over a longer period of time in particular. Liza has really only had one great senior season, she was TENTH at 2014 Russian Nationals and then after 2014/15 season, went downhill again. That is why there was no pass for 2016.
Last year's Nationals was a strange one, all three skaters on the podium were Juniors, Liza was absent because of sickness and Alina and Zhenya both skated poorly in comparison to their previous achievements.

It might not seem fair to you but the decision to send Zhenya was obviously made based on what they KNEW she was capable of given her results over previous seasons. While Liza had got herself a GPF bronze, it does not compare to Zhenya's results over a longer period.

We don't know what will happen with Alina and if she manages to stay competitive or not. The scenario is not relevant to the other.
 
Tuktamysheva's in my opinion lately receives way too high PCS, to be frank. Her skating skills are very juniorish if not worse, with very shallow edges, slow skating and extremely messy steps and turns. Her performing also mostly consists of flailing her arms around and making faces, which takes far less effort than the way someone like Bradie Tennell performs, even though she's certainly not a favorite of mine. Tennell also objectively has much, much better skating skills and is far stronger in terms of transitions. Honestly, the PCS difference could be even greater than it was between the two.

In terms of tech, Tuktamysheva does jump two 3As indeed, but the rest of her layout is very suboptimal. She only jumps 7 triples, and even does a +SEQ on a 3Lutz, which removes 30% of her 3Lutz BV for no good reason. Perhaps the GOEs could have been higher and indeed, she might have deserved to defeat Tennell had Bradie not been getting a home scoring advantage, but Tuktamysheva's program layout leaves way too many points on the table. Tennell's program with correct delivery has around 62 BV, Tuktamysheva's around 67. That's a ridiculously low gain for doing two 3As. If we look at Anna Shcherbakova's layout, she's at 80 points. With two 3As she can do Anna's layout with just the quads replaced with 3As, so that'd bring the expected BV to 73. Hence, Tutktamysheva loses some 6 points by doing her layout instead of Anna's, which is greater a loss than what Tuktamysheva even is gaining by doing two 3As instead of your usual 7 triple program. That's why it's important to not just consider the highest difficulty elements.

By the way, this is the strength of Eteri girls' layouts in general. The quads are cool and all, but even if they fall, the rest of the layout is so strong it's still a significant gain. A skater like Tuktamysheva can't do that, if she falls it's a worse performance than it'd have been if she didn't include them at all.

I've gotta agree with you. Watching Skate America live in the front row really changed my perspective on these skaters. The difference between a slow and a fast skater in person is huge, because cameras follow the skater and mitigate some of the slowness. Bradie fills the ice with her speed and bigger stature. While smaller, Anna skates fast and fills the ice with the plethora of skating moves she does.

With Liza, there are big floaty jumps but when she wasn't jumping, the program was mostly hand and face choreo (though she's been improving this aspect at least). Even with my "untrained eye", seeing her skate before or after other skaters really highlighted her flaws.

People see the 3A's and go gaga (they do deserve huge credit!), but it annoys me that people forget this is a points game. Saying she deserved to be ahead of Anna in the SP because she had a 3A and Anna fell on a StSq means nothing if you don't consider everything else they did. Her spins lose points, especially compared to Bradie's speed and Anna's flexibility. I think some of her jumps deserve more GOE, but she's not as underscored as some people make it out to be. The bullets for GOE's are all or nothing - even if Liza had much more height & distance, other skaters may still get the bullet if theirs are sufficient. In that case, they receive the same amount of points in the eye of the code. Now if other skaters add transitions and music in and out of jumps (which Liza does not often commit to), then Liza is ultimately behind in GOE despite having more technically textbook jumps.

Her PCS are fairly generous at times too, considering she just doesn't put as much effort into the PCS point-getters that others commit more to. Don't even get me started on her sub-optimal layout and random +SEQ jump combos. PCS aside, there's a reason Alina is still competitive against 3A's and quads - her team plays the points game, and it adds up!
 
I don't deny Zhenya Med's past achievements and I was very happy that she did well at Worlds, I'm a fan.

However, it seems wrong to me that her past achievements be given so much weight, after all Liza didn't get a pass to the 2016 World's despite being the defending champion. She didn't even get a chance at Euros 2016... Why should Med get more consideration? If nothing else it makes the Russian Fed look really biased, which apparently they are, but that doesn't make it right.

After all Alina Z has even more achievements (Olympic gold medallist) but will the same people who are "Whatever" about Liza been left off the World's team last year be happy if the Russian Fed put Alina in the World's team over one of the 3A because her record's better?

The decision was made based on the rules published on the Rusfed website. The GP season was not taken into account for the Worlds qualification. Interview with the Rusfed president

The procedure for determining the composition has long been known and was published on the website of the federation even after the Russian championship in December,” Gorshkov noted. - It says that according to the results of the tournament held in Saransk, the executive committee approved the composition of the national team for the European Championship and Universiade. At the World Championships, candidates for the team will be determined based on the results of performances at the european championship, and for substitutes - at other competitions. This is either the Universiade (figure skating competitions will be held in Krasnoyarsk from 5 to 9 March - approx. Team Russia), or the Russian Cup final. The All-Russian Coaching Council will take all this into account and make a list, which will be given to the executive committee of the federation.

https://teamrussia.pro/news/novosti/aleksandr-gorshkov-sostav-na-chempionat-mira-opredelitsya-posle-kubka-rossii-zagitova-samodurova-tukatmysheva-kto-poedet-na-chempionat-mira-2019/
 
The decision was made based on the rules published on the Rusfed website. The GP season was not taken into account for the Worlds qualification. Interview with the Rusfed president



https://teamrussia.pro/news/novosti/aleksandr-gorshkov-sostav-na-chempionat-mira-opredelitsya-posle-kubka-rossii-zagitova-samodurova-tukatmysheva-kto-poedet-na-chempionat-mira-2019/

Be that as it may, Med's win over Liza at the Russian Cup Final was controversial to say the least. And not including the GP in their decision? Why it's almost like they wanted to stack the cards against Liza.

The decent thing to do would have been to name Zhenya Med to the team right off. They gave Liza hope knowing full-well they were never going to select her, which I think is a pretty awful thing to do.
 
Be that as it may, Med's win over Liza at the Russian Cup Final was controversial to say the least.
No. Just compare Lisa´s PCS international to the Russian Cup Final.
And not including the GP in their decision? Why it's almost like they wanted to stack the cards against Liza.
Because it´s logical to go for the last result and not what happened 3 month ago at the GP season. Especially by Lisa because of her illness after the GPF.

The decent thing to do would have been to name Zhenya Med to the team right off. They gave Liza hope knowing full-well they were never going to select her, which I think is a pretty awful thing to do.
You can believe in a conspiracy, I don´t care. I think if you read the interview it should be clear.
 
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