U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt

[Mathman]

If there's anyone who does, consider this quote that she made in a pre-Worlds interview:...

Never let 'em see you sweat!

Injury? What injury?

 

[Olympia]

I'm confused. Doesn't USFSA monitor the skaters' practice sessions? If she was that injured, why didn't they notice or intervene?

That was something that occurred to me. The practice sessions are open. The judges watch, probablythe Federation has a representative at the competition. And nobody noticed anything?

I can see, after everyone's explanations, that Rachael was in the wrong, and therefore it's just and fair that Rachael got punished. But something still bothers me about the way people are castigating her, and I'm kind of peeved that she was zinged before her coach was. Therefore I retain my sympathy for her. She did what all athletes are trained to do, keep going even with pain (and it's possible she was encouraged to do so by Tom Z, who surely knew she had a stress fracture if there was a medical diagnosis).

The contrarian in me enjoys John Baldwin's defense of her. It's nice that someone publicly took her side.

 

[Mathman]

The contrarian in me enjoys John Baldwin's defense of her. It's nice that someone publicly took her side.

To me, John Baldwin told it like it is. He said what any athlete would if he was not afraid to speak candidly and without worrying about being politically correct:

Sure, I skated hurt lots of times. Never told them diddly.

Baldwin said he signed similar documents many times, and never reported any injuries.

That included the 2006 Winter Games, when he had a hernia and Inoue had a badly strained groin – and they became the first pairs team to land the elusive throw triple Axel at an Olympics.

“You think that was going to stop us from making history?” Baldwin said. “There’s always a level of injury. But you want to succeed. What you don’t want to say is, ‘Hey, I’ve trained my whole life to get to this point and now I’m going to give in to an injury.’

 

[Violet Bliss]

It is generally acknowledged that Flatt is not an athlete as naturally talented as other top US ladies. Hard work and determination get her where she is - a consistent national medalist, including a championship.

Skating through pain is part of that grit and dogged determination, part of the risk taking mindset of high achievers. Rewards often come with risk taking but sometimes it ends up in severe undersirable consequences, as per the definition and nature of risk. However this incident happened, and I am not privy to how the events and thinking process unfolded, it worked out against Flatt and she is paying a price. It is a lesson and a bump in her journey in life and careers, athletic and other, but I hope she keeps her character and winning attitude which have got her this far this young. Bumps are inevitable but they don't define or determine one's ultimate success.

Whether or not Flatt deserves the reprimand and fine, I can't help feeling that she is being made a scapegoat/example out of innumerable similar incidents over the years by many skaters. It's particularly ironic if a major consideration is her inability to gain an additional spot for the US Ladies next year. Nobody was held to be personally responsible for such duty before and the USFSA itself certainly has not displayed much concern or emphasis on international achievements or gaining Worlds entries in its selection of national team members. It has been defended here in this forum that such is not one of its official objectives at all.

 

[janetfan]

To me, John Baldwin told it like it is. He said what any athlete would if he was not afraid to speak candidly and without worrying about being politically correct:

Sure, I skated hurt lots of times. Never told them diddly.

I dunno, the source you quoted was never a favorite of mine and I look at anything he says the same as if Johnny said it = self-serving.

Some ofthe comparisons and comments I read earlier on this thread don't make much sense to me.
If Lambiel skated hurt would it matter? He was not just the best skater the Swiss had but one of the best skaters in the World.

Randy Gardner got injured a few days before the 1980 Olympics. He kept it quiet and even Tai did not know. The day after the SP he re-injured himself in practice and then had to withdraw the night of the LP.

What comes to mind is that Randy and Tai were the defending world champions and 5 time Natl champions. USA had no other team that could come close to equaling them. They were in a sporting sense and within the US Federation" irrpelaceable."

The remarks "that other skaters have skated injured" just doesn't cut it and on several different levels.

Are all skaters equal? Are all federations the same? Are all skating disciplines the same?

Am I to believe that when Yuna skated with some fairly painful injuries that the Korean federation made dumb decisions by letting Yuna skate?
Does anyone here really think the Swiss or Koreans had a viable replacement for skaters of Stephane and Yuna's quality?

Skating with injures is common. Skating so poorly due to a serious unreported injury as a member of a large fderation does not seem as common.

Flatt had a very serious and painful injury. As a member of a large federation there were adequate replacements.
That was never the case with Yuna. Many times it could be the case with USA Pairs Teams.

Not a PC way of thinking but not all skaters are equal just as injuries and the performance related problems they present are not the equal.

 

[Mathman]

It's particularly ironic if a major consideration is her inability to gain an additional spot for the US Ladies next year. Nobody was held to be personally responsible for such duty before and the USFSA itself certainly has not displayed much concern or emphasis on international achievements or gaining Worlds entries in its selection of national team members. It has been defended here in this forum that such is not one of its official objectives at all.

My interpretation of the USFSA’s approach is this. Of course they want to win as many championships and medals as possible. The way to achieve this is to develop and encourage promising young skaters and to provide them with opportunities for international competitive experience.

 

[janetfan]

My interpretation of the USFSA’s approach is this. Of course they want to win as many championships and medals as possible. The way to achieve this is to develop and encourage promising young skaters and to provide them with opportunities for international competitive experience.

Winning as many spots as possible is also part of the misson statement of the Intl Committee of US Skating.

There is not a whole lot of room for "interpretation" about Intl events when the goals are stated so clearly.

 

[gkelly]

Skating with injures is common. Skating so poorly due to a serious unreported injury as a member of a large fderation does not seem as common.

You make good points.

I suspect that many "inconsistent" skaters that we only saw a couple times a year in the days before the Grand Prix and before widespread television coverage likely were skating with injuries in the bad performances and healthy in the good ones. What kind of reputation they got with fans would often depend on which performances happened to get broadcast.

 

[Mathman]

In case anyone is curious about what the mission statement of the USFSA International Committe says, here it is:

The mission of the International Committee is: to select the U.S. Figure Skating Team that wins the maximum number of international medals and berths possible by strategically providing experience to qualified members of the U.S. Figure Skating Team, and by identifying and supporting the best qualified future prospects. The International Committee is also responsible for the approval of criteria used to select athletes to the team envelopes.

A team envelope consists of athletes (singles, pairs and dance) as having competitive potential to win medals in international, world and Olympic competition.

 

[Violet Bliss]

So the US federation has a real problem with 2 Ladies returning with 2 berths but no problem with 3 Men returning with 2 berths?

 

[Mathman]

So the US federation has a real problem with 2 Ladies returning with 2 berths but no problem with 3 Men returning with 2 berths?

That's where I think this whole affair has left the USFSA with egg on its face.

They could have just taken the high road. Rachael violated the terms of her contract. For this infraction they imposed a penalty. All quite proper.

Instead, they made it seem like Frank Carroll and Phil Hersh were pulling them around by their noses, bringing in irrelevancies like how many berths we get and what Mirai might have done. In so doing, the USFSA sacrificed the moral high ground and let itself get dragged down into the partisan trenches, IMHO.

 

[janetfan]

That's where I think this whole affair has left the USFSA with egg on its face.

They could have just taken the high road. Rachael violated the terms of her contract. For this infraction they imposed a penalty. All quite proper.

Instead, they made it seem like Frank Carroll and Phil Hersh were pulling them around by their noses, bringing in irrelevancies like how many berths we get and what Mirai might have done. In so doing, the USFSA sacrificed the moral high ground and let itself get dragged down into the partisan trenches, IMHO.

I agree there is some "egg on the face" as you put it.

But perceptions can vary on this.

I think if there is embarrassment here it is clearly on Team Flatt.

Rachael's situation is not so bad and she plans to compete next season and is shopping around for a new coach.

In the case of Tom, although you have said the matter is closed and "is it Octobe yet" I think more will come out.

I still don't believe Agnes leaving last week was just a coincidence.

I have no problem if Tom is reprimanded or whatever but think this could be done in a more private manner.

On the other hand if Hersh reports on it I admit I am curious to read what he writes.

 

[seniorita]

what left with an egg on the face means?

We throw eggs and yogurt to politicians lately, is it of the same meaning?

 

[FlattFan]

Rachael is about to start her life, which will be fabulous.
A certain famous coach's life curtain is about to close.

Moral of the story: sad people on the cusp of irrelevance are still sad at the end of the day, regardless of what USFS will do. Guess who couldn't sleep at night fuming over this? Rachael wins, end of story.

 

[Mathman]

what left with an egg on the face means?

We throw eggs and yogurt to politicians lately, is it of the same meaning?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The phrase means to be left feeling embarrassed and foolish. I think it originated from the practice of booing bad comedic actors off the stage by throwing eggs at them.

 

[Violet Bliss]

That's where I think this whole affair has left the USFSA with egg on its face.

They could have just taken the high road. Rachael violated the terms of her contract. For this infraction they imposed a penalty. All quite proper.

Instead, they made it seem like Frank Carroll and Phil Hersh were pulling them around by their noses, bringing in irrelevancies like how many berths we get and what Mirai might have done. In so doing, the USFSA sacrificed the moral high ground and let itself get dragged down into the partisan trenches, IMHO.

Agreed. With reservation about the "high road".

The way this came about, with no publicized precedent penalty for many instances of skaters competing while injured, the USFSA's (delayed) action against Flatt seems more of a reaction to Hersh's public griping, supported by Carrol with self serving perspective. Fans' condemnation of Flatt might have a part in it but that itself is roused by Hersh's "revelation" and stance. Someone must be very pleased with his power.

While Flatt could be blamed for not gaining an additional berth for the Ladies, which was lost the year prior by someone else now touted as the one to have retrieved it if Flatt had acted properly, on whom or what can the USFSA put the blame of actually losing a Men's berth? (Bradley happily retired with a National title to launch his show career.)

Why do they even need a Committee when the National Team members are so simply selected based on just one competition?

 

[Mathman]

To Flattfan -- Oh, I can't go along with that at all. Everyone starts out young, then if they are lucky they get old.

I have no problem if Tom is reprimanded or whatever but think this could be done in a more private manner.

On the other hand if Hersh reports on it I admit I am curious to read what he writes.

Agreed.

 

[FlattFan]

To Flattfan -- Oh, I can't go along with that at all. Everyone starts out young, then if they are lucky they get old.

Not a dig at older folks at all. . I'm over the hill myself, and hoping to be old someday (and not getting upset over some girl who went to the World figure skating championship on a broken leg, launching an investigation, and then getting giddy when said girl is fined and reprimanded)

 

[Mathman]

Why do they even need a Committee when the National Team members are so simply selected based on just one competition?

The committee has other duties than just selecting the team for Worlds. They handle the "team envelopes" and Grand Prix assignments, for instance.

However, again the wording in the mandate is interesting. The committee is charged with determining the criteria for team envelope funding, etc. They are not charged with actually choosing which skaters are selected for these funding opportunities.

I think the intent is to bend over backward to make everything go according to objective guidelines, and not to give even the appearance of playing favorites behind closed doors. In this, I applaud them.

I will be very interested to see what changes the future might bring. In the last couple of years some little weasel words have crept into the description of the selection process that give the International Committee greater leeway if they chose to exercise it. Maybe the temptation will grow greater if U.S. prospects do not improve internationally.

 

[fscric]

Not a dig at older folks at all. . I'm over the hill myself, and hoping to be old someday (and not getting upset over some girl who went to the World figure skating championship on a broken leg, launching an investigation, and then getting giddy when said girl is fined and reprimanded)

I only follow this case loosely but I feel for you, those are some very despicable behaviour.