US Team: 4CCs and Worlds (updated)

[hippomoomin]

With the same logic, Mao should have withdrew from Japanese Nationals and GP France. It problem is, you don't know unless you actually skate.

On this we can agree.

Whatever their problems, once they step onto the competition ice, they have to own the performance.

If she felt her health or equipment problems were too big to compete, then she should have withdrawn.

 

[Mathman]

...Tyler Pierce...

OT, but what happened to her this year. Was she at Nationals at all? I don't remember her, but I sure do remember her skate at Nationals last year.

 

[Eislauf]

The thing is, no-one outside of the skater and coach really knows the true story about injuries and boot problems. We don't know how much is spin (ugh - apologies for the dreadful unintended pun ) to justify a skater's less-than-stellar performance, and how much is reality.

 

[Mrs. P]

The thing is, no-one outside of the skater and coach really knows the true story about injuries and boot problems. We don't know how much is spin (ugh - apologies for the dreadful unintended pun there!) to justify a skater's less-than-stellar performance, and how much is reality.

Which is why Karen was better off saying nothing. Nobody is going to believe you anyway, so say some pefunctionary things and get back to work.

 

[Eislauf]

Which is why Karen was better off saying nothing. Nobody is going to believe you anyway, so say some pefunctionary things and get back to work.

Agree 100%. Although we don't know the truth, Karen's explanation doesn't seem entirely believable. I remember one or two times after Ashley bombed when she just came right and out said "today just wasn't my best skating". She owned it, took responsibility and put it in perspective, i.e. that it's not the end of the world. Great response.

 

[andromache]

OT, but what happened to her this year. Was she at Nationals at all? I don't remember her, but I sure do remember her skate at Nationals last year.

Withdrew because of injury, I believe?

 

[Skater Boy]

Athletes need to be very careful toeing the line between explanations and excuses. Karen may very well have legitimate boot problems but everything is contextual. History tells us that it's very difficult to tell what percentage of bad performances have to do with equipment, training, confidence issues, etc. I would put this in the category of keep it to yourself because the general idea in sports is that everyone is struggling with injury and equipment problems so either you have a doctor's note (e.g. you have an injury or other issue that prevents you from competing) or you're making an excuse.

Even if the boot isn't fixed she will never admit it. She will go to worlds. This is her chance. Like RAchel Flatt they know the chance is rare. Other than some rare skaters (hmm wasn't there a Canadian speed skater who gave up his spot for another Canadian to compete and that worked out well - the other skater got a medal. Last year Liam gave up a spot for Nam to skate. That didn't work out at all but there was no chance with Liam to get 3 spots at all.

 

[Jammers]

Skaters after they bomb a program or competition just need to keep quiet and not mention having "boot problems'. It doesn't even matter if it's true it just sounds like an excuse. At the very least don't mention it just day after you competed let some time go by before you need to tell people so it doesn't sound like an excuse.

 

[Barb]

Almost each figure skater has given some kind of excuse at some point, I don´t understand why Karen is special.

 

[Tavi...]

Plus Jason's 4th place finish at 2015 World's was 20 points behind the 3rd place finisher, and at 4CC this year, his 6th place finish was 22 pts behind Boyang Jin in 5th. Plenty of room to slot in other skaters.

Plus, Jason isn't "6th in the world", as some might mistakenly claim, he's 6th at 4CC without Javi, Denis Ten and the Russians.

I do think Jason can get into the top 10 at World's, and hope he does.

I have no idea what defines someone as 6th in the world and make no claims as to Jason. If you go by the most recent Worlds, he's 0 because he didn't compete. If you go by season's best total scores, he's 8. If you go by either world standing or season world standing he's 6. Pick your poison.

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2016-17/wrmen.htm

 

[Mathman]

Almost each figure skater has given some kind of excuse at some point, I don´t understand why Karen is special.

Karen has not yet been properly counseled: never complain, never explain.

 

[Barb]

Skaters after they bomb a program or competition just need to keep quiet and not mention having "boot problems'. It doesn't even matter if it's true it just sounds like an excuse.

She would not be the first one, don´t you remember of Gracie blaming to her weight just after her bad performances?.

 

[Skater Boy]

Lots of people suddenly encouraging Karen to withdraw because of her boot problems....

Anyway, I believe boot problems were supposedly the issue during GP this season? So the issues were resolved at Nationals, and now they've reappeared?

Whatever the case, Tammy and/or USFS should be handling the issue. But Tammy Gambill has had so many skaters with so much potential who have just never worked out well internationally as seniors (Shotaro Omori, Caroline Zhang, Ricky Dornbush, Hannah Miller, Tyler Pierce) so I really just worry about her skaters in general. But maybe Vincent will have better luck, or at least Tammy's experience with Karen this season may help Tammy with Vincent, should he end up going to Worlds in the future.

She and Joanne McLeod.

 

[Skater Boy]

Karen has not yet been properly counseled: never complain, never explain.

I appreciate honesty rather than Miss America (Kwan)answers. Be real. Even ice queens show emotion and humanism.

 

[Eislauf]

I have no idea what defines someone as 6th in the world and make no claims as to Jason. If you go by the most recent Worlds, he's 0 because he didn't compete. If you go by season's best total scores, he's 8. If you go by either world standing or season world standing he's 6. Pick your poison.

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr2016-17/wrmen.htm

Someone earlier in this thread stated that he/she believed that Jason was 6th in the world; that's what I was responding to.

 

[skatespin]

This is why 4cc should have been a skate off. Criticize the Russian fed for other things all you want but they got it right in how they pick the team. If you can't perform closer to the big event, you are out. Look how successful that method is for US gymnastics.

Very true

 

[bekalc]

I appreciate honesty rather than Miss America (Kwan)answers. Be real. Even ice queens show emotion and humanism.

Well here is my thought. Sure boot problems can be a real issue. But if the problems are a real issue that is going to cause you to perform poorly than maybe you should not be compete.

If you choose to compete with a bad injury or a bad boot problem then you need to take responsibility for the skate if it's bad. Because you were the one who decided to compete like that.

 

[Mathman]

I appreciate honesty rather than Miss America (Kwan) answers. Be real. Even ice queens show emotion and humanism.

Not me. Reporters? People on the Internet? Screw 'em.

Let her be real, honest and emotional to her actual friends, family and acquaintances. I never feel like a celebrity owes me anything, certainly not an explanation for a disappointing performance.

 

[Tavi...]

Someone earlier in this thread stated that he/she believed that Jason was 6th in the world; that's what I was responding to.

Right, I know. I was just pointing out that it's kind of an ill-defined term, and the different measures that might be used to define it are all problematic in different ways.

 

[frida80]

Lots of people suddenly encouraging Karen to withdraw because of her boot problems....

Anyway, I believe boot problems were supposedly the issue during GP this season? So the issues were resolved at Nationals, and now they've reappeared?

Whatever the case, Tammy and/or USFS should be handling the issue. But Tammy Gambill has had so many skaters with so much potential who have just never worked out well internationally as seniors (Shotaro Omori, Caroline Zhang, Ricky Dornbush, Hannah Miller, Tyler Pierce) so I really just worry about her skaters in general. But maybe Vincent will have better luck, or at least Tammy's experience with Karen this season may help Tammy with Vincent, should he end up going to Worlds in the future.

I follow Karen on Instagram. I can confirm that one week before she left for Korea she visited her boot manufacturer and posted on her "your story" thing that vanishes in 24 hours. I was pretty concerned because you only see them if your having problems with your boots.

Personally I don't think it's just the boot. She's complain that last year she as in excruciating pain while skating because her ankle fracture had made if difficult to fit her feet normally in boots. Before anything else, she needs to see a doctor to see why she is in pain.